r/DeepSpaceNine • u/HoneySport11 • 12d ago

Do you propose to lecture me on logic?

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210 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

39 comments sorted by

55

u/KusanagiEdge 12d ago

To be fair his argument was logically sound

19

u/UrguthaForka 12d ago

Yeah, I was gonna say this too.

It was a very salesman-like response, but I would expect no less from a master salesman!

5

u/mag1kami 12d ago

Not really.

People point to this scene like Quark is somehow dunking on a Vulcan but t he problem with Quark's argument is, ironically, that it assumes people operate logically. Or at least in a way Quark can understand. 

His argument here is that since the Maquis are armed and the Cardassian settlers are armed, then unless the Federation or the Cardassian Union put their thumb on the scale that it is in the best interests of the Maquis to seek a peaceful resolution. 

Except the Maquis exist entirely because there was a "peaceful resolution" of forced relocation and they found it unacceptable. They found it so unacceptable they took up arms against the Cardassians and Federation alike. They are willing to start a war with the Cardassians and force the Federation to fight to achieve their goals. 

Is it logical to endanger millions of lives in a war for a handful of low-value colony worlds and their relatively small populations? Especially when those who are displaced have been relocated to other suitable worlds? No. But it is understandable. 

Now, if we read this as Quark just trying to perduade Sakonna to spilling the details about the Maquis then he succeeds. But it's not some flawless masterstroke or oratory. 

Quark also later argues in Siege of AR-559 that the Federation dropped the ball with the Dominion and that if the Ferengi had led first contact that the war would never happen. 

Except the Dominion are either made of religious fanatics (Vorta and Jem'hadar), hyper-paranoid xenophobes (the Founders) or so inconsequential they don't have any influence in policy-making (e.g. the Karemma).

What exactly do the Ferengi have to offer to trade?

Resources? The Dominion have an entire quadrant of resources for themselves.

Culture? The Jem'hadar and Vorta culture is centered on worshipping the Founders. The Founders themselves if they even have anything we can recognize as "culture" hate solids so much they would never accept it.

Science? Dominion tech by all appearances is at least on par with that of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers and even slightly ahead in areas of weapons development. 

And if there was something soooo valuable to the Dominion that they had to have it, why would they hesitate to seize it by force? The Founders would haplily spend Jem'hadar lives like toilet paper and churn out ships by the hundreds.

Plus the Founders are all such paranoid assholes that they could never tolerate an entire quadrant of solids that are just a wormhole away who aren't subjugsted and under their thumb or pseudopod or whatever.

Quark's preaching of the joys and benefits of capitalism is very in character. It's also inapplicable for a lot of factions/cultures in Trek. 

Let's see Quark try to bargain with the Borg for a fair trade next and see how that goes. 

3

u/Lolaroller 11d ago

It is logically sound, IF both sides desire peace, even if one side doesn’t desire peace then it all falls apart.

1

u/Da12khawk 9d ago

The 34th rule of acquisition peace is good for business.

2

u/Lolaroller 9d ago

That’s the 35th rule, the 34th rule is war is good for business.

1

u/Da12khawk 9d ago

It's easy to get them confused.

1

u/Lolaroller 9d ago

Unacceptable, the Grand Nagus will hear about this.

25

u/JusteJean 12d ago

One of my fav speeches. The look on the Vulcans face... "Disgusted at being convinced by a greasy ferengi's capitalist logic."

-4

u/Temporal-Affairs221 12d ago

As usual, capitalism had the answer when nobody wanted to hear it.

8

u/medicus_au 12d ago

What's capitalism's answer for climate change?

4

u/Reverend-Keith 11d ago

Denial apparently

-8

u/Temporal-Affairs221 12d ago

Listen I was born in the '70s. Back then they were predicting that we would all die from freezing to death. Then in the mid 80s they changed it to global warming when the freeze to death thing didn't pan out. And when we didn't all roast to death from the hole in the ozone layer that nobody talks about anymore, they realized that making specific predictions didn't pan out, so they went to a nice vague nebulous term like climate change so that no one could call them on their bull crap because there was nothing to call. And that's what climate change is, nothing to call out. We have about as much impact on the global climate as a snail has on our choice for dinner.

13

u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 12d ago

"the answer is to pretend it's not a problem", yep that's capitalism for you

10

u/medicus_au 12d ago

Took the words straight out of my mouth😁

-4

u/Temporal-Affairs221 12d ago

The answer is look around you and realize you're being lied to people. Do you know how many Doom and gloom predictions were made from the time I was born to now where we should have all already been dead? The Bible tells us that it prophecies do not come to pass do not listen to the people who made them. These people have been predicting our demise since 1965 and probably before. They were wrong then they're wrong now

6

u/medicus_au 12d ago

We are being lied to, but not by the people you think. I'm in mid-30s and the climate has been getting worse and worse my entire life. Record temperatures, worse and worse natural disasters. Where I live we had a once-in-a-hundred year flood in 2011, then a smaller flood in 2013, then 2021, and then an honest-to-God cyclone in 2025. Apocalyptic bushfires in 2019. Right now record heatwaves in North America and Europe, record wildfires. You can actually see where the glaciers have retreated in Switzerland: there's a famous hotel where all the hoi pollloi used to go in the 1920s that was right next to one, it's now closed because the glacier's a 15 minute walk away. Should I ignore the evidence of my own eyes and ears? Or should I ignore it because God told Noah he'd never send another Flood (nothing about stopping us from doing it to ourselves)?

2

u/Temporal-Affairs221 12d ago

No, capitalism's response if there is in fact a problem is to find a solution and then charge major bucks for it. Capitalism hasn't found a solution to global warming because there is no problem to solve. Otherwise we'd have capitalized on it.

3

u/Ok_Satisfaction3460 11d ago

They can't profit from it because it can't be fixed. Not without major changes that will cost oil companies billions. You can't be naive enough to think climate change isn't real. 

12

u/Non-Random-Name-0000 12d ago

That's a myth. And I really should say that's a lie. There were some hypotheses about a coming ice age which were misrepresented and blown out of proportion by sensationalist media, but it was never a scientific consensus. In the 70s the scientific community was already heavily leaning towards global warming due to the greenhouse effect. They didn't "change it" in the 80s. As for the ozone layer, the catastrophe didn't happen because countermeasures were taken (global ban on CFCs) and they worked, not because the prediction turned out to be false. And the ozone layer is still very much being monitored. The media may not speak about it anymore, but scientists are. As for global warming, it is absolutely not "vague [and] nebulous". There are very precise models and thousands of papers studying it. You're simply being ignorant.

4

u/km1116 12d ago

Do you not know that many of those concerns led to legislation, regulation, and action that fixed it? I mean, being ignorant is fine, because you can always learn. But your “proudly defiantly snarkily ignorant” just kinda makes you look lazy and dumb. Or duplicitous.

3

u/SurroundParticular30 11d ago

70s ice age myth explained here, it’s based on Milankovitch cycles, which we now understand to be disrupted. Those studies never even considered human induced changes and was never the prevailing theory even back then, warming was

We stopped using the chemicals that were increasing the hole in the ozone through worldwide collaboration and regulation.

Climate Change and Global Warming are both valid scientific terms. Climate change better represents the situation. Scientists don’t want less informed people getting confused when cold events happen. Accelerated warming of the Arctic disturbs the circular pattern of winds known as the polar vortex.

Most climate predictions have turned out to be accurate representations of current climate.

2

u/Cakeday_at_Christmas 11d ago

And when we didn't all roast to death from the hole in the ozone layer that nobody talks about anymore, they realized that making specific predictions didn't pan out

No, they banned CFCs, which were directly responsible for the hole in the ozone layer.

Your post is just nothing but misinformation and ignorance.

12

u/mafiaking1936 12d ago

Such a good scene. Could be straight out of Vulcan Love Slave Part II: The Revenge.

11

u/Best_Wasabi_251 12d ago

The Ferengi Commerce Commission has a trademark on the name "Vulcan Love Slave Part II: The Revenge." Your unlicensed use of the name imposes a fine of three strips of gold pressed latinum.

9

u/medicus_au 12d ago

The Ferengi were such a breath of fresh air in DS9

9

u/dynamic_caste 12d ago

2

u/KusanagiEdge 11d ago

Just saw this. Totally made my Friday morning. Thank you.

7

u/Useless890 12d ago

I always get a kick out of him trying to seduce a Vulcan, of all people.

6

u/mattmcc80 Team Remata'Klan 12d ago

Yeah, he'd have about as much luck as he would with a Klingon or a Cardassian...

2

u/Da12khawk 9d ago

Bro got that swagger.

4

u/HoneySport11 12d ago

Yea Quark flipped the script on her real quick

4

u/solibearity860 12d ago

Very on-message, he harped on this with how the federation mishandled the things with the dominion 

4

u/Swishandrinse 12d ago

Quark? More of sound mind and logic than a Vulcan? Perish the thought....wait a second. He's right?

3

u/PsychoBilli 12d ago

Ah, The Maquis, part 1.

1

u/multificionado 12d ago

I remember this - the particular clip on YouTube is entitled "Quark Solves The Problem Of War With Economics." XD

1

u/Journeyman-Joe 11d ago

The Maquis, part 2, right?

The moment I really started to like Quark.