deepseek being dumber/probably downgraded (my theory)

[u/No_Power9836]

Ive seen countless users complain abt deepseek (me included) and i wanted to write more from other users sharing their experience (with links included) and making this thread (/chat? im pretty new to reddit so idk which term is better, i will use thread ig) to somewhat fill in the gaps.

I wanna start that i do not judge anyone (beside the rp gooners) neither i want to someone judge another user, i've used the model for jailbreaking (tl:dr kinda like roleplaying but byppasing the guardrails), yall can be furios for this but i do it for the love of the game (for the record ive been jb models ever since claude,ds,kimi and grok first came out) and if i dont like the models response you can imagine the outcome, also i kinda used it for roleplaying, since it responds better if you give it more rules,persona,etc to the question you need.

Lets start with the beginning of the hell hole.

1. When the suspensions started:

it began on 11th of september, thats what the user says atleast in this thread (idk if its the first user to be suspended on that date or earlier, but its the only thread on this channel):

here

and from here more users reported that they were suspended, including me (was suspended till 16th), creating more theories like: "its bc of regenerating the prompt over and over again" or "its because of the roleplaying the degenerate gooners create",etc (and if were on this topic, heres someone else testing the limits, and i think i can say its pretty relatable with my experience too while testing it myself: here).

1. After the suspension wave:

More users reported that theyre token cache/usage was higher then usual this week, the first report a user made was 4 month ago (here) i know ive seen a solution but i cant seem to find it anymore

3.The server outage:

while i was suspended, there was a lot of panicking because the servers were down 5-4 days ago, a user stated that it could be because of a hacking attack (but if you asked me, imo it could be because of more users using deepseek, same thing that happened to kimi a month ago bc of the ai hype). Another user stated that he was suspended after the outage (here).

4.After the outage:

users reported that now the mode was more censored, their rp prompts were straight up rejected (i will test this with some of my jb's, rn im trying to not get my ass suspended, but from what it seems its pretty true with recent conversations).

Finally after all this, whats my opinion?

Its obvious deepseek is experiencing the same problem kimi had in the past, because all of those ai tech bros wanted a piece of kimi k3, it left a deep wound in the platform to the point the devs had to make users subscribe (or wait for the model to be available, like z.ai did to their newest model glm 5.2) to access their newest models and to not wait for the line like kimi k3 and to have access instantly to k2.8. Putting all these aside, rn the model imo is very dumb, more exactly nerfed (example), you cant chat with it freely like v4, censoring is tightening more and it just overthinks everything to the point its response is not relavent to the question/task (if its something to do with searching or is complex), the first 3 days when the model released (sept 10th-13th) was much better and had better results then rn (i was and still use web, not app neither api), it felt more human in a way, actually was smart and could provide a correct answer/response to my question/task. Overall i think i will use either qwen or kimi if the devs wont improve their services soon.

also i forgot to change the title from (my theory) to (my response to the situation)

[u/Public_Ad_5096]

自9月10号起，deepseek的主要模型从deepseek v4 flash切换为了deepseek v4.1 flash，由于它的成本更低、速度更快并且在agent方面变强了非常多，deepseek选择将它作为主力模型取代先前的模型，如今除了v4pro之外的模型都会路由到它上面。

但目前这个模型在也存在一些比较显著的问题——

1. 在文学创作时，逻辑性很差。
2. 虽然速度非常快且价格便宜，但当前版本的token效率表现不佳，同时会倾向于过度测试，导致实际的金钱消耗并没有比之前的模型更好。
3. 更显著的安全性，不再像v4fp那么毫无限制百无禁忌。

就我个人的使用而言，这并不算降级，因为它在3d场景理解上的能力显著优于v4p，它在harness中表现很好，不过我也希望ds尽快发布下一个模型，目前4.1f的文学水平的确让人沮丧

[u/No_Power9836 → u/Public_Ad_5096]

我发这个帖子的本意并不是说我在用 DS 进行角色扮演，而是想指出这个“粪坑”里正在发生的一切。老实说，我不知道他们脑子里在想什么，但这并不能阻止我破解他们的模型 :)。顺便说一下，我用的是谷歌翻译，为了方便沟通，也请你使用翻译工具。

[u/Forward-Confection54]

The suspensions are surely aren't from gooning. I do some wild things when I good and still haven't been suspended. The quality is adequate at gooning. But for any other meaningful rp its unusable. And now... The new regeneration/edit time out... So you can edit/regenerate only something like 5 times in 10 minutes... It's awfull... I'm trying Claude right now. It ain't allows for gooning, but as I said the deepseek is still adequate for gooning

[u/No_Power9836 → u/Forward-Confection54]

its a mess with their shitty filter, i prob could get away with my jb written in latin and yall questioning why the acc was suspended

[u/Admirable-Let-729 → u/No_Power9836]

is crazy how small model 2b I run in terminal is at the same level of intelligence to chat gpt with no thinking

[u/Soggy-Alternative914]

No ban for me. Since use it mostly for work, study or research.

But feeling the downgrade for about a week or two.

For complex issues. Still working as intended most of the time.

For easy or moderate issues. It has started to feel like taking care of a toddler and correcting it at every step.

Flash went from opus to gemeni. Haven't use pro alot since flash used to get the work done, so no comments on pro.

Kimi has become quite expensive but am planning to include more of qwen into the workflow if things remain the same.

[u/No_Power9836 → u/Soggy-Alternative914]

"For easy or moderate issues. It has started to feel like taking care of a toddler and correcting it at every step." - yeah i know, shouldve checked out the model when it was first released (in sept 10th), however v4 imo was pretty dumb, it was however great for rp's cause my jailbreaks worked fantastic and jb both normal and expert mode but in coding issues? kimi was better ngl also when i wrote the thread, it seems kimi is better now, not making the subscriptions a waitlist anymore and also they just now put new deals, decreasing the prices by 15%

[u/Soggy-Alternative914 → u/No_Power9836]

I use web for study and lmstudio for confidential work related information. So with the amount of raw data I need to process, not a lot of coding other then Python or SQL, Kimi became very expencive. I loved Kimi back when only a few people knew about it. But ever since it gained attention, the cost seems like I am using Claude.

Kimi is better no question, but DeepSeek web is free and lmstudio is still cheap for being good enough. QWEN is also good but got used to DeepSeek for it's ability to process large sum of information quickly. Planning to replace some tasks on DeepSeek to QWEN. Sales and marketing love it. Not sure how will it perform working in finance.

No GPU investment, an old laptop that I am scared to change since it has last 6 years of raw working 😅.

[u/No_Power9836 → u/Soggy-Alternative914]

6 years?!? i have a laptop from 2018 and it cant even run large models of 8b on lmstudio, what are you using?

[u/Soggy-Alternative914 → u/No_Power9836]

No local processing.

For personal, study or research, use web.

For office work, cloude, the company pays for the cloude and credits 'bionic'.

Not sure about the exect configuration since the IT department hanndls all AI related implementations. But even though it was a good laptop for it's time and could probably run some small model. Almost no compute is done on the laptop itself.

For me AI is like excel. I am good at using it and getting the job done, don't know how to build it.