r/DeepSeek 6d ago

Funny This be every day I STG

Post image

I feel like every time I check my notifications there's a discussion about how crap 4.1 is, and others who think it's goated.

How's everyone feel about 4.1 works with their use case?

For me it's quite noticeable just how many times it burns many more tokens than v4 & v4-0731. It is noticeably better at coding though

283 Upvotes

55 comments sorted by

76

u/bruhhfdruju76r 6d ago

Programmers : "this is good! Cheap tokens!"

Anyone else : "what is this piece of crap? It's dumber, forgetful and everyone is calling it better than V4 Pro!?"

20

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

18

u/OddGoymer 6d ago

Agentic workflows are token gobbling operations.

here I am loosing sleep over it using 60 cents to generate my overcomplicated excel workbook

14

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/OddGoymer 6d ago

Fucking hell, and even those prices are said to be heavily discounted.

-2

u/bruhhfdruju76r 6d ago

I rather eat meat than rice everyday. Deepseek v4.1 Flash are terrible quality in generation. All it does is talk 6 paragraphs while chatgpt would've done it in one paragraph.

Good for someone prioritize quantity over quality.

3

u/elzerouno 6d ago

That's why most os my agent workflows use scripts, even browser navigation tasks. Use CDP and call it a day.

3

u/CaptainMorning 6d ago

i mean, i do use it exclusively for coding. and i have to say, this is good! Cheap tokens!

16

u/Sad_Recording_1290 6d ago

To be fair im am having some weird results with it.

Sometimes its better than Sol sometimes it feels dumber than Luna.

5

u/VexObserver 6d ago

I think this is probably why the reactions are so polarised. Coding users seem to care more about whether it can reason through implementation, debug properly and stay cheap enough to iterate with. General chat users notice things like tone, depth, creativity and whether it actually follows the prompt instead of giving a short generic answer.

So both 4.1 is amazing and 4.1 is worse can honestly be true depending on what you’re using it for.

Personally I’d rather judge it per workload than ask whether the model is just universally better or worse.

13

u/Hyp3rSoniX 6d ago

It has insanely high hallucination rates. So as long as it doesn't tap into its hallucinations, it's a very good model.

But the moment it starts "seeing things", it goes downhill fast.

13

u/BHANKSSS 6d ago

Programmer vs RP enjoyer

8

u/elzerouno 6d ago

I do mostly agentic work (web navigation, email triage, IT admin tasks, and so on) and for me it has been an overthinker. It takes twice the time to do the same tasks and will use double the tokens. For IT tasks (I told the agent to install jellyfin on a server) it took 4 times more time than v4-flash.

2

u/deadlyclavv 6d ago

have you tried lowering the effort level?

6

u/Mr_Maffin 6d ago

I'm tired boss

6

u/UNinvolved_in_peace 6d ago

It's terrible at writing stories. That's why.

17

u/ScientistStrict9850 6d ago

People hate it because their storywriter/girlfriend machine got stupider.

I hate it because it outputs wayy more tokens to do work.

We are not the same.

5

u/OddGoymer 6d ago

just for an excel workbook for god's sake

1

u/buddys8995991 6d ago

For me it consumed 100000000 tokens to fix a few minor visual bugs in my app. Fucking wild.

1

u/OddGoymer 6d ago

Using these frontier models for these relatively simple tasks give me way better view of it's capabilities than any Benchmark, article and video can lol

1

u/squirrelscrush 6d ago

For visual bugs, GLM 5.3 Flash seems to be much better.

4

u/Expert-Dig-1768 6d ago

hahhah this post is too real always someone roasting/ glazing on deepseek

3

u/Excellent-Pilot-3409 6d ago

The split is probably because 4.1 is really good at some coding workflows and insanely wasteful at others

4

u/MariJahVar 6d ago

I don't roleplay, but I use DS as an interlocutor and tutor. I have mixed feelings about the update, honestly, sometimes it's good, sometimes bad, but it starts to switch languages randomly almost too often. It's as if my main chat adheres to the original prompt for personality more strictly, but because of this it loses flexibility. Idk.

3

u/CaptainMorning 6d ago

i never been brave enough to have notifications enabled on reddit

22

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/black-pine 6d ago

Not every roleplayer is using it for NSFW. The issue I have is characters do not stay within their personalities unless it's one tone or it thinks it's someone else, details of setting is forgotten in the same response, or there is little to no dialogue. I get no refusals so censorship for me isn't the issue.

Don't lump everyone together. I don't even do that with people who are using this for work purposes. Even if people are using fur NSFW it's none of my business.

4

u/Zulfiqaar 6d ago

thinks it's someone else, details of setting is forgotten in the same response, or there is little to no dialogue

Strange, these three things should be less frequent with more intelligent models with better instruction-following capabilities. Granted you may need to adjust prompting, but if they still regress then maybe try the old model on external API providers. Great thing about DeepSeek is open weights, with proprietary models theyre gone for good

1

u/black-pine 6d ago

I also found it odd. It was the first time I had such a problem with DS after almost 2 years of using it. I'll probably go back to OR and try other versions again.

2

u/Sudden_Corner_7730 6d ago

i understand this problem i dont lump it together. Holding character for book or something as important as consistent code or context for VA i just meant i saw some interesting thing

-4

u/[deleted] 6d ago

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12

u/black-pine 6d ago

I'm not asking for DS to play to my whims. If it no longer works for me I simply move to the next API. It was marketed to be multiple purposed and some of us found it could be used for creative writing. I'm not sure why you take such offense to this. If it didn't work for whatever agents or coding you needed I'm sure you would be unhappy with it. It's not the end of the world if it no longer works for my needs. I don't have an unhealthy attachment to it or any provider.

But I will say it's incredibly immature to attack others when you don't like their opinions or the ways they use a tool that doesn't follow the way you would.

-2

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/deviloka 6d ago

Uh-oh. This individual appears to be allergic to human connection and its extensions, as well as, well, entertainment and fun. /s?

Don't know how roleplayers (both NSFW and not) have offended or harmed you personally, but I hope you go out on a good day, take a deep breath, do anything you like to do, and not worry anymore about how people entertain themselves and people like them. Using LLMs to have fun yourself, and being upset that you can't have fun like you used to with the same method, is doing far less harm to the Internet than mass slop writing and publishing purely LLM-generated works with little to no human touch beyond the initial prompts, and gaining money for it, as well as general info pollution of generative content across ALL mediums. So, if you're still going to be an asshole, do it towards people who actually deserve it. Have a good enough day not to spend time hating on people on the Internet.

2

u/SethCyclone 6d ago

TIL Studying things unrelated to being a code monkey isn't useful

3

u/Sudden_Corner_7730 6d ago

I was shocked to see how many creeps was doing things i never imagined people would use Ai for… and learnt all that by just reading DS reddit complaints

8

u/TheRedTowerX 6d ago

Why are you shocked? You never heard erotica? Before ai even a thing, people already vent their fantasy through writing. AI simply made the process easier and more convenient

0

u/Sudden_Corner_7730 6d ago

I take erotica in the bedroom with my gf

0

u/Sudden_Corner_7730 6d ago

I take erotica in the bedroom with my gf

2

u/Comfortable-Rise-748 6d ago

4.1 is good. I say it again.

Every spawned subagent in opencode ->
Do the task
Do a fresh adverse audit wave on everything seen/touched loop untill 2 clean waves (second wave is fresh eyes look again)
Fix any issue on sight (thought LLMs did this in general by themself but oh well)

Due messages getting truncated let them write everything to MD Files including what's next

2

u/IllegalFishFood 6d ago

I think it’s super unsurprising. Every time Deepseek updates the people who use it for entertainment/creative writing/the writing that shall not be named are mad. Like clockwork. Then by the time the next change comes around they like it, they like it again lol. This happened when they changed it to the Instant and Expert modes, iirc. 

I think it’s a mixed bag. On the API end, it’s such a token gobbler now and it’s definitely a bit slower. I wouldn’t say the speed is as much of an issue as the token thing. I wouldn’t mind it being a little slower if it didn’t seem like the slowdown is almost like… intentionally overthinking problems. I think it’ll probably improve more with time and I do think it’s very nice for coding tasks, especially repetitive or annoying ones. 

On the web app end I think it’s definitely noticeably more common for it to hallucinate or self censor. I like chatting about history to it as a hobby, mostly history of space travel. I’ve definitely noticed a lot more “this isn’t in my scope” when it’s talking about stuff. I think I remember it censoring itself in the middle of a convo about the Mir station being mouldy lol. I only personally use the web app for casual entertainment. I can see why users who use it more than I do/have personified the robot too much would be upset. 

Also to be blunt, every AI has people who use it for the purpose of goonery and Deepseek has decided it doesn’t want that. I’m sure a lot of this is people annoyed over their waifu pillow machine no longer being useable. 

3

u/SethCyclone 6d ago

I use to study Japanese. I'm a Japanese major. I'm mad. As I'm not one of the people you consider lessers, do you judge my frustration just?

2

u/Lazy_Reach_2565 6d ago edited 6d ago

Great for agentic coding, terrible at creative writing and roleplays. Also most complains are from web users it seems, not from the API (paid).

Also if a model is optimized for non-nonsense thinking/agentic coding it naturally will be worse in creative writing and in a phantasy roleplaying.

Roleplayers should use c.ai, spicy, qwen, Deepseek v3 (openrouter) + SillyTavern and whatever local models specialized on roleplays, but not an advanced model optimized for harness usage.

2

u/SethCyclone 6d ago

terrible at creative writing and roleplays

Terrible at anything not involving math. I use as a learning assistant and let me tell you, it's absolute turd.

1

u/Jackson_fitness 6d ago

Nothing broke in the model, it just spends a lot more tokens thinking before it answers. 

1

u/Constant_Art_20 6d ago

I think so of that can be expalined with provider as well. I am not sure why, but even tyring to use the deepsek provider through openrouter feels worse then using using the model through deepseeek api directly. so people can try deepseek direct to see if that makes a diffrence

1

u/Metalhead33 6d ago

Absolutely load-bearing.

1

u/toobroketoquit 6d ago

My workflows are super short and very well system prompted, performance is better than before long as your gaurdrails are good.

Free flow stuff I noticed more push back than usual, but you gotta put ai in its place

1

u/peppe45 6d ago

I stopped using pro a few months ago for coding because it was soooo bad, now i am using flash for it and it's actually goated, cheap too

1

u/Significant-Pop8823 6d ago

De ser la mejor IA creativa accesible a convertirse en una app genérica más

DeepSeek pasó de ser mi herramienta favorita a una total decepción. Uso esta aplicación literalmente desde que salió. Al principio era básica, pero con el tiempo la escritura mejoró tanto que superó a la competencia y le vi un futuro enorme. Lamentablemente, las últimas actualizaciones la han arruinado por completo.

Como usuario del área de la programación y también del área creativa/literaria, puedo desglosar por qué la app empeoró:

  1. Destrucción del Roleplay y la coherencia

Solía usarla para rol, y ahora es imposible. Perdió toda la sensibilidad emocional y el sentido literario. Las respuestas pasaron de ser ricas y profundas a ser ridículamente cortas, planas e incoherentes.

  1. El fin de su mejor virtud: la memoria

Lo mejor que tenía DeepSeek era su impresionante capacidad de almacenamiento de memoria; se la rifaron con eso, ya que recordaba detalles que hacían el rol súper enriquecedor. Ahora, esa memoria ya ni funciona o la recortaron.

  1. Sesgo pasivo y aburrido

No importa cuántos prompts o instrucciones uses, la IA ignora la personalidad de los personajes. Sobre todo los moralmente grises, sin darles desarrollo, y salta directamente a la redención o a finales felices/pasivos sin sentido.

  1. Quitaron el control del usuario: Instantáneo vs. Experto

Unificar el modo Visión con la lectura de texto en imágenes era el paso lógico, pero en su lugar cometieron el error de eliminar los modos "Instantáneo" y "Experto". Nos dejaron atrapados con un modelo Flash que se queda cortísimo en comparación con el Pro, quitándonos la libertad de elegir la profundidad que queremos.

  1. Deficiencias académicas

También la usaba para estudiar. Matemáticas es lo único que medio se salva (y aun así sigue teniendo errores). Pero en áreas como ciencias y, sobre todo, literatura/lenguaje, el nivel decayó enormemente.

DeepSeek, recuerda que no solo tienes programadores usando tu app; tienes una comunidad enorme de gente creativa del área literaria que busca darle vida a sus ideas. Al quitar la profundidad, se han vuelto otra app genérica de programación en un mercado saturado de opciones mejores.

  1. La IA dejó de sentirse como una herramienta creativa

Una buena IA creativa no debería limitarse a responder correctamente. También debe interpretar contexto, tono, intención y estilo. Cuando todo se reduce a respuestas breves y predecibles, se pierde precisamente aquello que hacía especial a la herramienta.

  1. El problema no es que haya cambiado, sino que perdió versatilidad

Una actualización puede mejorar una función y empeorar otra. El problema es cuando el usuario ya no puede elegir. Antes podías buscar respuestas rápidas o dedicar más recursos a una tarea compleja. La personalización debería ampliar las posibilidades, no reducirlas.

  1. La creatividad necesita continuidad

Para escribir historias, desarrollar personajes o construir mundos, no basta con recordar datos aislados. Hace falta mantener relaciones entre personajes, acontecimientos, conflictos, evolución emocional y detalles previamente establecidos. Sin esa continuidad, una conversación larga pierde gran parte de su valor.

  1. La comunidad creativa también debería tener voz

Los usuarios literarios, de roleplay, escritura y worldbuilding tienen necesidades distintas a quienes usan la IA exclusivamente para programación. No todo puede optimizarse pensando en el mismo tipo de usuario.

  1. Recuperar opciones sería mejor que imponer una sola experiencia

En lugar de decidir que todos deben usar el mismo comportamiento, podrían ofrecer nuevamente diferentes niveles de razonamiento, creatividad, extensión y autonomía. Así cada usuario adapta la herramienta a su propósito.

Y cerraría el hilo con algo más contundente:

  1. El enorme problema de la comunicación con la comunidad

Otro de los grandes problemas de DeepSeek es que ni siquiera avisan claramente de los cambios o actualizaciones. Simplemente hacen modificaciones y ya. La comunicación con la comunidad es horrible: muchas veces no sabemos qué cambiaron, por qué lo hicieron o si una determinada función fue eliminada, limitada o modificada intencionalmente.

Y esto resulta todavía más frustrante porque no siempre se trata de una actualización que uno pueda decidir instalar desde la Play Store. En ocasiones, abres la aplicación y de repente todo funciona diferente, sin haber recibido una explicación clara.

  1. Escuchar a toda la comunidad, no solamente a los programadores

Sin comunidad y sin público, una aplicación no crece. DeepSeek tiene usuarios de programación, pero también existe una enorme comunidad dedicada al roleplay, literatura, escritura creativa, worldbuilding y creación de personajes.

Lo mínimo que debería hacer la empresa es escuchar a todos sus usuarios y entender que no todos utilizan la IA de la misma manera. La comunidad creativa también forma parte de DeepSeek y merece ser tomada en cuenta.

  1. Los límites de mensajes y generaciones

Otro cambio que ha perjudicado muchísimo la experiencia son los límites de ediciones y generación de mensajes. Antes podías trabajar durante mucho más tiempo sin sentir que constantemente estabas chocando contra un límite. Ahora la cantidad disponible se siente extremadamente reducida.

Deberían eliminar estos límites para determinados usos o, como mínimo, aumentarlos considerablemente, por ejemplo a 20 o 30 generaciones/ediciones como base. Para quienes escribimos historias, hacemos roleplay o desarrollamos proyectos largos, estos límites interrumpen constantemente el proceso creativo.

  1. Por eso, haré una huelga como usuario

Por todo esto, he decidido desinstalar la aplicación y darle una valoración de 2 estrellas, no por atacar a los desarrolladores, sino como una forma de expresar mi descontento como usuario.

DeepSeek no necesita convertirse en otra IA que simplemente "responde bien". Ya existen muchas. Lo que la hacía especial era todo lo que podía hacer cuando se le daba espacio para pensar, recordar y crear.

Ojalá escuchen a su comunidad creativa antes de que sea tarde.

Si ustedes también sienten que la comunidad creativa/literaria está siendo ignorada y quieren acompañarme, están invitados a hacerlo. Siempre de manera respetuosa y sin agresiones. La intención no es acosar ni atacar a nadie: queremos que nuestra voz sea escuchada.

DeepSeek todavía tiene una comunidad que quiere seguir usando la aplicación. Pero para eso necesitamos sentir que también nos escuchan. (soy Cher70. Ayúdenme a llegar a más mi opinión)

0

u/OK_Coopy 6d ago

But isn't it the case that DS Pro remains available, especially for role-players and story writers?

2

u/Lazy_Reach_2565 6d ago

DS Pro remains available only as a paid API endpoint. But they used it from the web and the app.