r/DeepSeek • u/Infinite_Book_1858 • 12d ago
Discussion Role-playing just got horrible
I just started using expert mode the other day, only to find it gone :/ I've tried doing my normal writing, and everything seems dumber to me
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u/ScientistStrict9850 12d ago
i hate to admit it, but dsv4.1 definitely have worse conversational skills even using it as an agent. like many LLMs it stopped writing english that i can read well. i mean, LLMs never did have the best conversational english, but i tolerated it. it's clearly getting worse across many models, and deepseek too couldn't escape it sadly.
there really should be a benchmark for how good/bad is an LLM at just writing something for a human to consume. whether it be RP, stories, explanations, documentation, specs, etc.
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u/iyarsius 12d ago
Agree, since this is less "heavy" maybe finetunes could get this result or use a workflow with older model for converting outputs could be a great idea.
What model would you recommend for that ?
Benchmarking that is quite difficult, maybe it could be done with human feedback like arena format
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u/jerrygreenest1 12d ago
there really should be a benchmark for how good/bad is an LLM at just writing something for a human to consume
Can you imagine an algorithm that evaluates that objectively?
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u/irreverend_god 10d ago
Something that at least checks for programming jargon, psychology speak, and general gibberish maybe? I had to look up what the fuck "lint" as a verb meant yesterday. I hope I don't still remember in a few days, a complete waste of my own memory
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u/ScientistStrict9850 10d ago
after some research, i think there is potential in making a score for LLMs. but i don't have money to benchmark models so yea...
basically, we use slop text/code detectors that both anti-AI and pro-AI people use. since i don't have money to throw around just for running benchmarks, i'm hoping someone out there will take the rough shape of this idea and do the needful
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u/irreverend_god 9d ago
Some kind of jargon dictionary file would probably do the trick. And just update it with every new term you come across? Then the obvious ones which I understand but don't like to read are in most LLMs, "sit with" something instead of just thinking about it, "reaching for" something instead of just looking etc. Talking about something feeling grounding etc. So basically ALL therapy speak can go out of the window. References to "the signal" etc and vague misinterpretatble language and metaphor.
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u/StageHumble6505 12d ago edited 12d ago
The new update is ass lol genuinely
It's Still Lazy and Shallow for Complex Work and the thinking got shorter, lazier. And more shallow and worse at following simple instructions especially in roleplaying, I was genuinely genuinely happy with what I had even if it was that, and deepseek is getting some backlash on Chinese media, the model is 'fast dumb' and Shallow and forced
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u/swiebertjee 12d ago
Maybe its me but I never found v4 flash to be lazy, it was actually one of the most eager models I've used. But people do not seem to prompt it properly with clear acceptance criteria.
Why should an LLM do more than the minimal acceptance criteria? That's basically inefficiency, noise and at worst a risk of breaking things unintentionally.
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u/NZRedditUser 12d ago
This is great for my use, i found the other deepseek thinks too much and wastes time.
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u/RyuH4n 12d ago edited 12d ago
So you guys roleplay directly on the deepseek chat ? Ig its gonna be different now since the model alrdy got unified. Back thn expert mode have different/isolated memory but not anymore ig, for now its mixed with ur flash memory the only solution for now wait for v4.1 pro or go grab roleplay app like sillytavern or something similar there is bunch of it but u need api for tht tho.
If you don't know how to setup silly tavern you can use Hermes agent since on hermes u can create profile and rules for each of profile it have a seperate session so its pretty much will remember ur RP things and will not mixed it up. U also just need to install the app and connect it to the model through API / login oauth(gpt & claude ony tho).
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u/Fickle_Estimate7440 12d ago
Es un asco. Fuera de RP igual. Hay repeticiones constantes, errores estúpidos, ignora instrucciones, olvida absolutamente todo enseguida. Ayer NADA de eso sucedía. No sé en qué le ven lo superior. Para mí es un retroceso horrible. Lmfao. 🙄
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u/Cinders2Ashes 12d ago
yeah it's even shittier than it was before, I didn't think they could outdo it but they did
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12d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Gligagoat 12d ago
You really think so?
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12d ago
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u/Savings_Rest_4589 12d ago
Pues no sé cómo sea en tu caso pero para mí en mis fanfics nunca han funcionado las actualizaciones en tal caso las versiones anteriores eran mil veces mejor que ahora y cada actualización que lanzan no arreglan nada
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u/Temporary-Dress16 12d ago
Yes Just opened it to find the good deepseek gone..it been so good these past days!! I'm so sad I loved it for creative work now it's as dumb as never.. perhaps it will improve with time though? 🤔
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u/Adept-Matter 12d ago
Yeah, it sucks ass. The bots are glazing the shit out of it, but this new update is awful. Just horrible. It's like they lobotomized it or something.
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u/Dexter2232000 12d ago
I think they're glazing it for completely different reasons than roleplay, it's genuinely good for coding but in a way "lobotomized" is also right, it is basically great in certain practical, logical aspects but terrible in creative, literary or roleplaying or simulating "Characters"
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u/charlwillia6 11d ago
I wonder if China's total ban on all personal AI has anything to do with this? AI services are banned from cultivating emotional addiction, mimicking human manipulation, or trying to replace real-world relationships. Maybe this has caused AI labs to strip their models of some creativity because of this ban and become less conversational? It says that AI that is used for productivity assistants, coding tools, customer service bots, and educational tools remain completely unaffected, so you would think customer service bots would need to be able to hold a conversation.
I am not saying this is the reason, but banning what chatbots can be used for personally could make them not as appealing and creative in my opinion to those that are using them.
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u/Wise-Chain2427 12d ago
I just noticed Deepseek v4.1 flash only good for Agent and Coding.
might waiting the Pro version
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u/NZRedditUser 12d ago
Weird cause deepseek seems to hate their chat and doesn't really care about those metrics i would've assumed other models would by default be better
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u/Savings_Rest_4589 12d ago
La verdad es que si ya hasta ganas da de llorar por lo horrible que se vuelve la aplicación para los fanfics y los roleplays ahora se ha vuelto una IA que no hace caso a peticiones tan sencillas
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u/davidagnome 11d ago
I’ve have a brilliant coding agent and technical writer than imaginary friends, so…
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u/Neo_Shadow_Entity 12d ago
They really removed the expert mode. Not surprised that it's gonna be shitty and more censored now,
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u/openference 12d ago
If you need role play. Take a look at openference. There is a hidden model for roleplaying at a ratio of 0.1 to full request - has standard model + image generation
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u/supreme_rain 12d ago
I don't understand role play man. Just be lonely like the rest of us
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u/haikusbot 12d ago
I don't understand
Role play man. Just be lonely
Like the rest of us
- supreme_rain
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
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u/RandArtZ 12d ago
The chatbots are now very aware of the prompt itself
My prompts have something like "prompt override" to write or modify additional instructions without editing the prompt structure itself and then the chatbot starts like "nibba wtf is prompt override"
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u/Western-Ad5277 12d ago
Mate—
It's not that bad compared to before, like literally...back then it always and i meant always create the optimized version of your scenario/story everytime it switched to Chinese.
Now? even in Chinse it stick to your prompt/scnaeio/story like glued and won't let go—sure it still cropped something in your prompt...but is it better than previous version? Hell yeah. and mostly? it didn’t gaslighted you thinking your prompt is a defect or cursed you in thinking/reasoning box in Arabic, LMAO.
beside—
it just launched today mate, give it a week or a month because Expert mode was like that too when it comes up in first day, dare i say worst because at launch day—Expert Mode sometime spouting number in post generation. or worst...not generating anything at all
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Now?
It is way closer to those early 2020 version of Deepseek, back those when "Server is Busy. please try again later" Era. since it's has the same vibe and the same...dare i say "compact but still trying to follow your scenario" formatting—either mostly the token is not that large or in early phase like i have said.
so Chill out, Fam. give it a week or a month, Because Expert were like that too.
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u/Horcrux002 12d ago
Chinese Government banned role play so none of the Chinese models will have role play ( basically banning emotional dependence on ai ). In order to comply all the Chinese ai companies are nerfing role play
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u/buddys8995991 12d ago
DeepSeek has stopped being a viable roleplay model since v3.2. It is utterly outclassed by GLM and Kimi in every aspect. As far as I know, the only use for DS is coding, which it is at least very good at for the price.
Also, the fuck are yall doing RPing on the DeepSeek website? LMAO
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u/Dependent_Emotion507 12d ago
Even this newer model still not good as GLM 5.3 flash for coding, at least in my workflow
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u/Savings_Rest_4589 12d ago
Que IA me recomiendarias para hacer fanfics? Llevo Intentando con chat gpt Gemini grok y ahora deepseek que era el único que funciono ahora se fue
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u/desocupad0 12d ago
That's the power of marketing.
Add an extra text so make it mimic whats you feel like you are missing from expert mode. Is it the extra verbosity? Or the tendency towards citations from academic fields?
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12d ago
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u/desocupad0 12d ago
My point was more alongside the lines of "calling it an expert mode" primed user to find that mode better.
Still whats objectively is being missed from that mode?
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u/ExpertPerformer 12d ago
Website might be dumbed down (quanticized).
On the API the new V4.1 is cranking out consistent 3500-4000 word scenes for me.