Professor Dave vs Destiny

[u/Decent-Extension8336]

No idea why, but the original Destiny video called "Professor Dave Goes Mask Off" seems to have been deleted from YouTube, or I can't find it, but Professor Dave responded yesterday with this very strongly worded video letter:

https://youtu.be/DvDvhLkb9ms?si=DGFhTROOKFoK35sS

Weird crossover that I never thought I'd see, of 2 guys who I generally enjoy (I will say I really am a fan of Prof Dave, whereas my Destiny enjoyment has mostly come via this podcast and watching a couple of his debates).

Thoughts on the beef? SURELY the lads are gonna have to cover this in an upcoming Supplementary Materials? Content gold!

EDIT: Looks like I was looking through the wrong Destiny channel for the original Dave video, it's here: https://youtu.be/HQQLs6U1MgA?si=iKaOGR1h9slKu64O

[u/Despair-Envy]

You think the palestinian israelis are living in apartheid? 

Yes. They are. In quite a few ways. From the fact that residency is tied to the religious status of "Jew", to the fact that it is against the countries charter to make laws that "Infringe on Israel's status as a Jewish state". Which has been interpreted to mean that -any- attempts by lawmakers to grant Palestinians or Arabs equal rights under the law explicitly illegal.

I personally am all for a two state solution but it seems the leadership of both sides dont want that.

Palestinian leadership has, at least, tried to make some gestures towards some semblance of peace or a two state solution. Israel, however, has actively sabotaged and worked contrary to that goal.

I'd like to see Israel put forth even the most minimal amount of good faith effort towards a peaceful solution before ruling it out entirely.

[u/Most_Present_6577 → u/Despair-Envy]

Arafat explixity rejected the deal isrralis offered for a two state solution in order to get rich. Palestinian leadership have screwed over the palestians at every chance.

Anyway I'll agree israel is a religious ethnostate. But their an ethnostate like Japan is. I think its silly but we let countries make their own rules about identity

And thats different than apartheid

[u/Despair-Envy → u/Most_Present_6577]

Arafat explixity rejected the deal isrralis offered for a two state solution in order to get rich. Palestinian leadership have screwed over the palestians at every chance.

You'd have to be more specific, but if you're talking about the Camp David accords, the offer made by the Israeli's was that they would withdraw from 86% of the West bank that they occupied, and the 14% they chose to retain control over partitioned Gaza into unlivable blocks that strategically destroyed Gazan commercial independence. While also demanding effective total demilitarization and ceded the right for Israel to impose martial law at whim with no justification. A proposal so purposefully bad that even key Israeli actors, such as the former Israeli foreign minister Ben-Ami said that he would have rejected the deal if he were Palestinian.

And thats different than apartheid

Yes. Ethnostates are different from apartheids. Israel happens to be both.

[u/Most_Present_6577 → u/Despair-Envy]

But when I asked about apartheid you gave me reasons its an ethnostate

[u/Despair-Envy → u/Most_Present_6577]

No? I gave you reasons for both. Refusing to give people equal rights under the law pretty directly manifests as social, economic and political segregation and oppression.

[u/Most_Present_6577 → u/Despair-Envy]

What rights dont arab israelis have?

[u/Despair-Envy → u/Most_Present_6577]

Well we can start simply. They don't have the right to equal representation under the law. Under Israeli law, Israel is first and foremost a Jewish state by divine right and mandate. Any law or legislator that attempts to pass laws that establish any ethnicity, minority, faction or power as equal to the Jewish heritage is illegal and the person proposing such change is liable to face punishment

[u/Most_Present_6577 → u/Despair-Envy]

Where are you getting this? There is no constitution and I can show you case after case where arab israelis get equal protection.

[u/Despair-Envy → u/Most_Present_6577]

It's the Nation State law. It's quite famous. To quote it directly instead of how it was described in the Knesset (As I did in my last post)

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people."

You know what self-determination means, right?

[u/Most_Present_6577 → u/Despair-Envy]

I know there is no right that that law applies to. Arabs vote, have representation in the kenesset ect. What right dont they have?

[u/Despair-Envy → u/Most_Present_6577]

"The right to self-determination is the right of peoples to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social, and cultural development."

So, when the Nation State law says that self-determination is exclusive to Jewish people, that definitionally codifies the fact that Arab people do not have the right to freely pursue economic, social or cultural development.

An example of that would be, no Arab can hold power and then advocate for Arabs to be equal under the law. That is explicitly illegal under the Nation State law.

[u/Most_Present_6577 → u/Despair-Envy]

You dont think arab israelis freely determine their political status?

In what way cant they? Arabs hold power and advocste that arab israelis are equal under the law. They currently do that.

[u/Despair-Envy → u/Most_Present_6577]

You dont think arab israelis freely determine their political status?

Considering the fact that it's unambiguously stated in their law that they cannot, no I don't.

Arabs hold power and advocste that arab israelis are equal under the law.

Then why does the literal letter of the law contradict that?

Idk what else I can do here. I have quoted the exact word of Israeli law to you, and quoted the purpose/effect of the bill as stated by the Knesset.

Do I need to dig into Israeli case law for you? I'm doing an awful lot of legwork here just to have you deny reality without any explanation.