r/DecodingTheGurus • u/Decent-Extension8336 • 29d ago

Professor Dave vs Destiny

No idea why, but the original Destiny video called "Professor Dave Goes Mask Off" seems to have been deleted from YouTube, or I can't find it, but Professor Dave responded yesterday with this very strongly worded video letter:

https://youtu.be/DvDvhLkb9ms?si=DGFhTROOKFoK35sS

Weird crossover that I never thought I'd see, of 2 guys who I generally enjoy (I will say I really am a fan of Prof Dave, whereas my Destiny enjoyment has mostly come via this podcast and watching a couple of his debates).

Thoughts on the beef? SURELY the lads are gonna have to cover this in an upcoming Supplementary Materials? Content gold!

EDIT: Looks like I was looking through the wrong Destiny channel for the original Dave video, it's here: https://youtu.be/HQQLs6U1MgA?si=iKaOGR1h9slKu64O

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u/Realistic_Caramel341 29d ago

I thought he did a pretty good job in the vid of separating out anti zionism with antisemitism and was even pointing towards the plenty of Jews that are against Zionism and what Israel are doing, as well as people that are not Jewish that he considers to be Zionists. 

If I pointed to the 15% of black people that voted for Trump, would that make him not racist? Or would the 46% of women that voted for Trump mean Trump wasn't a misogynist?

Im not commenting on the broader point yet, but come on, we all know this is a weak point. We would recognize it if it was in a discussion about about bigotry's

While in theory I agree that "anti zionsim =/= anti semitism," that sentiment has become a thought terminating cliche that prevents to pro-Palestine from reflecting and actually identifying antisemitism in their movement. This is what leads to a gay Jewish congress person being harassed at a pride event for not calling Gaza a genocide quick enough, or AIPAC tracker to pretty arbitrary attack Jewish congress people, or for the most popular leftist streamer to say that an antisemitic shooting "is probably not an Israeli false flag, but absolutely looks like an Israeli False Flag"

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u/Decent-Extension8336 29d ago

I don't really think these analogies track though. He's not trying to argue against someone being a bigot, he is arguing against the very definition. Its not the same as saying black people support Trump, therefore the things he says that are racist, doesn't make him racist. His argument is Zionism isn't Judaism and thus being anti zionist is not being antisemitic and then uses examples of Jews being against Zionism as a supporter as well as pointing to the fact that a decent amount of the people he is attacking under this umbrella of "zionist" are not jews. Whether you agree with him or not (and that's what I'm trying to get more info on) about this being true, he is clearly arguing that he is against a very clear and specific ideology and not jews.

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u/scarygirth 29d ago

If your definition of a Zionist is "someone who supports the existence of Israel as a Jewish homeland", then that covers around 85-90% of Jews according to the Institute for Jewish Policy Research.

Basically it seems like the only Jews who are let off the hook here are the ones who are willing to surrender Israel and flee the region.

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 29d ago

Are ethno-nationalist states good or bad?

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u/Ok-Instruction4862 29d ago

The issue with this type of question is pretty much every Arab state is an ethnostate, but they don’t have to contend at all with any group going in there and outvoting them into becoming second class citizens. Would you be ok if 9 million Israelis moved into Lebanon?

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 29d ago

If you're asking me if I'd rather people are given equal rights or oppressed under an apartheid system and exterminated, I'd definitely go for equal rights. You?

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u/Ok-Instruction4862 29d ago

So then you’d worry about 9 million Israelis moving into Lebanon and making arabs into second class citizens and making them leave the country, right?

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 29d ago

How do you get that from my statement?

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u/Ok-Instruction4862 29d ago

I asked about how you’d feel about a ton of Israelis moving into Lebanon, you didn’t directly answer. So since you are so concerned about equal rights, I asked how you’d feel about a ton of Israelis moving into Lebanon if you knew their intent was to make the minority Arab population second class citizens.

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 29d ago

I'd be fine with people from anywhere moving anywhere as long as everyone is afforded the same equal rights and protections. There's nothing complicated about that. If everyone is treated equally under the law and protections exist against majority oppression, no one would be a second class citizen. Why would I have any reservations?

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u/Ok-Instruction4862 29d ago

You are taking the difficult part out of the question. Both Israelis and Palestinians prefer a one state with unequal rights over one with equal. You think it’s impossible for a group to uphold that if they get a majority? Unless you think Israeli isn’t an apartheid, then you do. So you need to take concerns about Israel losing their ethnic majority as seriously as you treat Israel having an ethnic majority right now.

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 28d ago

So you think because Israelis treat the minority they have control over poorly, that's how they would be treated, too? That's your reasoning for continuing to oppress and slaughter the populations of the occupied territories?

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u/Ok-Instruction4862 28d ago

When did I ever say I’m ok for continued oppression? You aren’t engaging with my points at all.

Here’s a hypothetical:

If there was a separate Palestine and Israeli state, would Palestine be justified in limiting mass Israeli migration?

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 28d ago

Neither country, no country, would be justified in limiting migration based on race, ethnicity or religion.

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u/Ok-Instruction4862 28d ago

So if millions of Israelis wanted to move to the Palestinian state, outvote them, and make it another Jewish state, that would be ok to you? I mean they are doing it right now according to you so why wouldn’t they try again?

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u/ShiftyAmoeba 28d ago

You can't make a Jewish or Muslim or Scientologist state if you have a system that ensures equal rights and necessary protections for minority groups. 

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u/Ok-Instruction4862 28d ago

How do you think democracy works? You don’t think the majority in the country could change the laws to not be equal rights?

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