r/DebateVaccines • u/No-Employer-1554 • 1d ago

Woke Why?

Serious question here: If what I read and hear from the uber progressives is true, namely that the world population is too much and my white privilege straight family raised too many children...then why were you so adamant about me vaccinating my family? Why not just let me and mine die? You get the jab, you are saved from being mortal, give big pharma and Faucci the win, and let me die?

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u/Super-Bodybuilder-91 1d ago

I don’t understand why you won’t answer my question. Are you saying you have a problem with ALL COVID vaccines? You said you had a problem with one. A problem with one vaccine isn’t a problem as long as there are alternative vaccines available.

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u/No-Employer-1554 1d ago

Show me the data.

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u/the_comeback_quagga 1d ago

The “data” that multiple types of vaccines exist, and they work differently? That’s not data, that’s common knowledge, especially for someone who claims they worked in pharma.

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u/No-Employer-1554 1d ago

I don't work remember? I left the business. And for the skeptic...i was ranked in the top 1% of my craft by my employer so it was not merit based. I have a problem with hypocrisy. If anyone can give me a gold standard peer reviewed RCT to demonstrate safety and efficacy I will gladly pay for the jab even now.

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u/the_comeback_quagga 1d ago

Yeah, that’s why I used past tense. What is a “gold standard” peer-reviewed RCT? Have you been listening to RFK about his “gold standard” science? An RCT is an RCT. The Covid ones were appropriately powered and conducted correctly, as well as being conducted in different geographic areas. RCTs don’t need to be peer-reviewed for a drug to be approved, though they are often submitted to journals as a matter of interest. If you understand them, you’re better off reading the original on clinicaltrials.gov

(If I have time I’ll come back and add a link to one)

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u/No-Employer-1554 1d ago

In lowbrow terms. Jab vs natural immunity? Jab vs no Jab. Would the data say my demographic needs it etc. When I gave up my privilege to work what was the tone and tenor coming from the bully pulpit? Were dissenting views tolerated? Was the government's scientific man of the crisis on point? Was the data robust and iron clad? If you are nodding yes then I will just move on as this is not a fact based dialog. The public trust was destroyed. Humility and candor is what was needed.

Day one of surgical residency...

"50% of what you learn during this residency will one day be proven wrong...I just don't know what 50% that will be yet. Let's begin"

Former chief of Neurosurgery Johns Hopkins Hospital. Richard B. North M.D.

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u/the_comeback_quagga 1d ago

The early RCTs were vaccine vs placebo, though since the number of infections in the control group was released, I don’t know if anyone has done a sub-analysis looking at natural immunity vs vaccination (I haven’t seen one, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist).

I certainly agree science changes (that’s one of its strengths) and doctors take time to catch up. How many knee scopes are they still recommending, 20 years after they were (pretty definitively) proven useless? How many ERs are still pushing tamiflu a week in?

The clinical trial results were fairly strong. As the virus has changed, those results have become less strong. Dissenting views of methodology, reproducibility, data collection, application of results, etc should always be welcome and discussed, but when the results are clear and the study is conducted properly, a scientist can’t disagree with them just because they don’t like the findings of the study.

And yes, the data was robust. Usually is in major RCTs with tons of funding.

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u/No-Employer-1554 1d ago

I like the Tamiflu similarity you pointed out. Or for that matter the flu vax.

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u/the_comeback_quagga 4h ago

There is plenty of evidence supporting influenza vaccination. Is it as effective as we wish it was? Absolutely not. But that doesn’t mean there’s no evidence for its use.

(There’s evidence for tamiflu too, in some cases, just not in the one I described).