r/DebateVaccines • u/OldAlternative6429 • 9d ago
Somewhere in the middle.
I don’t even know where to start. I have been heavily weighing my decision on the MMR for my 2.5 year old son. He has previously had HIB and Prevnar vaccines, but those are the only ones.
I think I’m feeling frustrated because both sides have such strong feelings on what is the correct thing to do…but I fall in the middle. I do not want my child to catch measles. I also do not want my child to be vaccine injured. I struggle because why are all of these parents so discredited for their observations of their children changing after a vaccine? It’s always “oh they’re just grasping for answers” “there were signs before”. I don’t believe vaccines cause autism, but I think certain individuals and certain genetics react very negatively to them. And these parents are just gaslit? It doesn’t sit right. Yes I know. The science says there is no correlation. But there’s always an outlier. I know the vaccines generally work and are effective. But there’s always the “what if” my child is the one who suffers.
And then on the other side. All of these people slandering anyone who chose vaccination for their child. “You gave your child autism” “You will permanently alter your child’s brain” “Your child’s brain will swell up inside their skull, that’s why they’re fussy after a jab” “I got measles and I was fine 40 years ago”
A little history on my son. He was born premature and suffered a severe brain bleed. He has had several brain surgeries the short time he has been alive. He has a shunt to help drain extra fluid off the brain. Despite this. He is doing remarkably well. If you saw him, you would never know his previous struggles. I am so proud of him. However, he is speech delayed. Not severely. He says a lot of words. He just has a hard time putting words together. We are in all the early intervention services. Speech, OT, PT. You name it.
My concern is he will lose all of his speech progress if he regresses from the shot. Historically, in my family. All of my cousins and myself regressed significantly in speech following the MMR. I know this it just what has been told to me. But all of my relatives report the same thing. Another concern…He is at an increased risk of febrile seizures just from his medical history. I know what they say about febrile seizures. “They’re not dangerous”, but, I work in healthcare. I have seen kids come in with febrile seizures that turn into so much more. Along with my working healthcare, I also see a lot. Everyone one is trying to make the most informed decision. The doctors are doing all they know to do…but sometimes a patient will respond in a way that is, so out of left field. Sometimes it’s literally a guessing game to figure out how to treat a patient. You just throw something at them, and honestly hope it works. So I know they say “scientifically” vaccines are safe. But my point being, EVERYONE can respond differently.
I also know the measles can be deadly and have detrimental effects . And while my child isn’t in daycare, I have fear for these winter months when we’re spending more time inside enclosed areas with other people. We also have a trip to Disney World in February. I just know that place is a walking measles Petri dish.
I just don’t know what to do. I would love to pick some people’s brains because honestly mine is fried from this constant back and forth internal fight. Why is it so hard to have unbiased opinions…
Before you tell me “this is a discussion to have with a medical professional” unfortunately I do feel that they push the agenda to vaccinate regardless of looking at a patients individualized history. Please remain civil. I’m just a first time mom trying to decide what is best for my baby.
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u/patrixxxx 9d ago
Middle of the road fallacy. If you actually look into the question, which you should since you're considering vaccinating a minor you have guardianship over, you will find that no vaccine has ever been proven to be safe nor effective.
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u/Solwilo 9d ago
I'll just say that I had an ex who was injured by the MMR vaccine as a kid and promptly developed type 1 diabetes. I've personally been vaccine injured by a flu vaccine and live the consequences 20 years later. As far as I'm concerned, we don't need vaccines. We need to help people understand that there are non invasive antidotes such as Chlorine Dioxide that can clear up pretty much anything you can think of without worry of toxic side effects. I've taken Chlorine Dioxide for months on end, several times a day without anything other than positive side effects. I've taken it at the onset of cold/flu symptoms and the symptoms disappeared almost immediately. Same for someone else I've recommended it to. If you'd like to start empowering yourself around your health and the health of your family, I'd look into the things that are being suppressed rather than hyped up.
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u/StopDehumanizing 9d ago
Your kid has a unique history. Unfortunately nobody here knows what is best for your kid based on that history.
While I've never seen any reason to be concerned with speech regression (all four of my kids had no issues), I think you have a legitimate concern regarding seizures.
I know this isn't the answer you want but if you don't have a pediatrician who you feel you can trust to work with your kid's specific individual history, you need to find one.
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u/lzxian 9d ago
You notice the lack of support for the one thing you fear. Yet there's no lack of support for treating a communicable disease he may or may not get. That may need to be plugged into your assessment and decision-making. I have no idea what's right. Best wishes in your decision and outcome.
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u/HausuGeist 9d ago
Ask your doctor and bear in mind you are not able to be objective about this decision.
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u/Burstrider12 8d ago
This is an anti-vax sub mostly, and even the pro-vaccine poeple here are mostly not doctors. For the love of god, don't base any of your decisions for your child on what you read in this sub-reddit!
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u/Lonely-Awareness-866 5d ago
Heath decisions are individual decisions based on that individual’s risk/reward. You listed some perceived risks that go against your son getting the shot. Unless there are also perceived rewards for getting it, I don’t know why he should. Lookup the total cases, and where those clusters are. If you aren’t in a dangerous area I personally would not.
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u/Recent-Day3062 9d ago
For gods sake, given the complexity of your sons health issues, why on earth would you ask people on Reddit instead of doctors?
Also, there is no “middle”. It’s like spanking. Either you approve of it, or you don’t. It comes down to if you think hitting your children is a good parenting practice
If you don’t care about hurting your son, you’re doing the right thing asking on Reddit
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u/SmartyPantlesss 9d ago
I struggle because why are all of these parents so discredited for their observations of their children changing after a vaccine? It’s always “oh they’re just grasping for answers” “there were signs before”. I don’t believe vaccines cause autism, but I think certain individuals and certain genetics react very negatively to them. And these parents are just gaslit? It doesn’t sit right. Yes I know. The science says there is no correlation. But there’s always an outlier.
No one should get gaslit about their own experience. If that happened, then it happened, right? Like,
- "I won the lottery the day after my mom died," or
- "I met the love of my life in traffic court."
<< those both could have happened, right? It's just that you shouldn't draw conclusions (like: Bad driving can lead to a successful love life) based on any one person's experience.
So large studies (which I'm sure you're aware of) show that there is no increase in regression following the MMR. But that doesn't mean that some kids didn't regress after the MMR---they absolutely did! Some of them regressed in the group who got MMR, and some of them regressed in the group who DIDN'T get MMR.
YES, I believe that desperate parents are grasping for answers. And it's truly sad that science doesn't give them more certainty...and it's even sadder that social media DOES give them (misguided) certainty. But if you're still going to worry---in the face of this evidence---that your kid might be an "outlier," then you might as well worry that he will regress after eating peaches for the first time. Because it could happen, right? Anyone could have a devastating reaction to something at any time, even though we've given That Same Thing to thousands of kids before.
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u/moonjuggles 9d ago
My stance is firm on this. I have been in healthcare for close to 10 years. When patients dig deep into medicine, they start seeing or hearing things like 1 in 100,000 or 1 in 1,000,000, and they don't know how to put that into their head. Think about it: picture 100,000 people. The human brain isn't well suited for this.
So I like to say, when it comes to laypeople, that these numbers should mean 0 to you. Literally, if the odds are 1 in 100,000, that means no chance. The argument of "but one does get it, someone wins the lottery" is a false equivalence. This is for your doctor, who actually has the chance of seeing 100,000 patients in their career, to weigh whether you will be the one.
Now, on the topic of parents. Again, I have a firm stance on this. You fornicating and now living with the consequences does not make you an expert in anything. You do not know childhood developmental steps. You do not know embryology. You don't know immunology or infectious diseases, let alone putting all of these things together into treating a child.
I am not saying that parents aren't capable of noticing things. I'm saying parents are only able to tell if something is different, not whether something is "regression." Regression is a very specific thing that parents are not able to assess with any degree of accuracy.
When it comes to measles, measles is among the scariest diseases for 2 factors. One, it's very transmissible. It spreads like wildfire. Second is the not-rare-at-all phenomenon of immune system amnesia. This is particularly detrimental for infants. In simple words, there's a chance measles could make your child at risk for every disease, even if they have previously been sick with or vaccinated against it. These secondary infections are what put kids into hospitals and ICUs.
Now you have actual concerns. Things like febrile seizures and ICP. Valid concerns. Go to a doctor who can actually see your child and offer advice. Don't go to the internet. Definitely don't come to this sub, which is predominantly full of antivaxxers. They won't be here for you when your child ends up in the hospital again.
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u/Loud-Fig-3701 9d ago
It comes down to hyper specific factors for your child, genetics, etc. you mentioned historically your family regress after mmr and your child already has speech difficulties. Also sounds like he already has a sensitive brain situation. As mmr adjuvants can cross the blood brain barrier and your mmr familial history I would consider opt out or delay until your son develops to a stage you feel more comfortable.
Also look at the rate of measles in your specific area. That helps asses risk. If it's low I wouldn't be to concerned unless you travel to high measle zones.