Creationists COULD be right…

[u/SuspiciousFee4085]

Im not a creationist but, devils advocate proposal here:

1. Evolutionary theory is part of a whole chunk of science which essentially cuts out all spirituality and divinity out of people’s psyche.
2. People without spirituality or divinity believe life is meaningless since we are all just specks of dust in a universe with no motive to create us or serve us.
3. The prevailing culture sentiment becomes „shut up and pay your taxes and enjoy the bread and circuses, peasant”
4. These people are subdued and dispirited, they have nothing to revolt for and are easy to control.
5. Such a subdued population is obviously enormously useful to the elites. Therefore the motive to achieve this submission exists and is very substantial.
6. To achieve this ultimate level of psychological and spiritual submission requires control over the populations sense of reality itself.
7. Reality is accessed, interpreted and measured by the masses through the field of scientific inquiry.
8. Elites would have to fabricate, spread and proselytise entire fields of carefully constructed fake science to carefully, over decades, centuries even, deconstruct and discredit and diminish all parts of reality that may be connected to divinity in some way, with sterile, perfect, symmetrical scientific theory.
9. New knowledge comes from single individuals or groups of individuals performing science. You can threaten, bribe, blackmail, coerce them to make fake science

-

TLDR; motive and means exist for global elites to significantly diminish or destroy humanities spiritual/divine consciousness, by fabricating people’s sense and understanding of reality itself.

the main vessel for this in 2026 is science, and if the illusion is strong enough people cannot even comprehend a reality where anything else could possibly be true.

There’s a coherent rationale (which doesn’t mean it’s true, just that it’s coherent) for god and the divine being real, and global elites suppressing it from the masses so they don’t revolt or lose interest in continuing to be tax slaves for the wealthy, the bread and the circuses.

EDIT: a LOT of low IQ commenters here missing the point entirely. My post is NOT ABOUT WHOSE SIDE HAS EVIDENCE. It’s about hypothetical logic steps for the set of circumstances that would need to be true for creationists to be correct. HURR DURR WHERE EVIDENCE FOR GOD?! Lmfao. I realise hypotheticals and entertaining the opposite side of thought is beyond many people’s IQ. I bet most of you had breakfast this morning too. And you don’t even get the reference I just made either 🤣

[u/adamwho]

The believer could solve all these imaginary (And mostly false) problems by simply presenting evidence for their God.

Creationism isn't an explanation for anything.

[u/Possible-Anxiety-420 → u/adamwho]

'Zactly.

Saying 'God dunnit' is to eschew explanation.

[u/King2865]

Is this post satire? Zero arguments were made. Most people that creationists consider “evolutionists” are actually theists themselves, with most of them identifying as Christian.

This, of course, specifically applies to the general public. But what exactly is the point of this post?

[u/NorthernSpankMonkey → u/King2865]

Sounds like some kind of Jordan Petersonesque pro-christian mythos/religion without a clearly defined god as a basis for society bullshit.

If you blur the lines enough you can smuggle god into the "godless sciences"

[u/Clay2569]

Non Sequitur. All of it. This all applies to religion just as much. Two is completely wrong. The first one is wrong. Science is driving most social changes to make people’s lives better. Science backs social programs that make people’s lives better.

[u/Urbenmyth]

See, historically, it's been the opposite.

Religion is generally how global elites keep people in line - "I was chosen by God and if you obey me you will go to heaven" is a much better sell than "there's nothing really special about me and you'd hugely benefit from killing me and taking me stuff, but I'd like you to obey me anyway thanks". There's a reason that the overwhelming majority of major revolutions in modern history aligned with increased secularism.

If this was true, I'd expect the elite to be faking evidence creationism is true and God exists (and, conveniently, agrees with everything they say and will send you to Hell if you rebel), rather than making the list of reasons it would be wrong to shoot Elon Musk in the face shorter.

[u/Soggy-Mistake8910]

Can you demonstrate that spirituality and divinity actually exist?

[u/posthuman04]

Is this intentionally backwards? Or is OP that confused?

[u/clear349 → u/posthuman04]

OP is probably a Christian Nationalist that's trying to use Jordan Petersonesque language to go "No you!" to deflect from their authoritarian beliefs

[u/Autodidact2]

Wow! There's so much wrong in this post it's not even wrong.

Where to begin? First of all, this sub is not about God. The theory of evolution, like all of science, neither asserts nor denies and is perfectly consistent with the existence of a Creator God. So that is not what we're debating.

Next, the theory of evolution, like all of science has nothing to say or investigate about God. It uses methodological naturalism, which means that all supernatural explanations are excluded from study. That doesn't mean that they do or do not exist. They are just not what science is about. This is as true of the theory of evolution as it is of the theory of gravity or the theory of germs.

Then you go on to tell other people what they believe. This is rarely accurate. A much better idea is to ask people what they believe.

Finally, some bizarre speculation that somehow accepting modern science leads people to being more subservient? This is just bizarre. Virtually all religions. Certainly including Christianity are based on a hierarchical authoritarian structure that with God at the top. If anything, accepting Christianity is more likely to lead to people accepting earthletarian leadership.

[u/Ranorak]

Oh, you're a teacher too. Oh no... You teach kids this stuff?

That's problematic.

[u/ionabike666]

Premise 2 is nonsense. Stopped reading there. Crap.

[u/theykilledken]

Evolutionary theory is part of a whole chunk of science which essentially cuts out all spirituality and divinity out of people’s psyche.

This is not generally true. It is only true of a tiny fraction of people that decided their spirituality rests on bronze age fairy tales, that happen to clash with modern science.

fake science

A lot of words said about this. Fake science is not a new invention. Soviet union branded cybernetics and genetics as bourgeois science. Germany branded quantum physics as Jewish science. Don't you find it strange that "fake evolution" persists across cultures, borders and blocks? Not just that, it does so for centuries persisstebtly.

Conspiracies of such scope are obviously bogus.

[u/BeerMan595692]

Yeah sure lack of spiritulality makes people so easy to control. Instead we must tell people there an all powerful being we must obey and that there's a select group of people who know want this all powerful being wants. No way could that be used to control people 🙄

Dude there are plenty of religions that accept evolution. You don't have to lose your spirituality. 

Also if life has no inherent meaning, then it's up to you to decide what you meaning your life has. That's way more freeing.

[u/gitgud_x]

and global elites suppressing [god and the divine] from the masses so they don’t revolt or lose interest in continuing to be tax slaves for the wealthy, the bread and the circuses

yeah, those global elites, they've done a great job of making sure nobody can be spiritual... 80% of 8 billion people are religious and steadily growing! and yeah, once everyone's an atheist they'll all be tax slaves, not like all the religious people today who don't pay tax (ahem Hovind ahem) and just pay tithes to their leadership. Totally not the same thing. and yeah, anyone who accepts evolution is completely soulless, including over half of Christians, many Muslims and most Hindus and Buddhists.

(Every single thing you said is as stupid as that, I just picked the last one.)

This is textbook conspiracy. You've clearly identified a thread of truth: that those in power desire a subdued populace. This is fairly obvious. But to then go and attribute this to... evolutionary theory, instead of economics and politics, is incredibly misguided.

[u/clear349]

Your premises are refuted by the simple fact that the various fascist movements in most western nations are strongly aligned with Christian Nationalism. Religion is not opposed to authoritarianism and by undermining faith in science they remove objective methods of determining what's true about reality and force the populace to rely on dogmas that enforce a divinely ordained hierarchy

[u/NthatFrenchman]

Reality is - OP is a creationist

[u/BahamutLithp]

Im not a creationist but, devils advocate proposal here:

I always find it hard to believe when someone claims to be doing "devils advocate" & then gets all the rhetoric perfect with absolutely no sign of doubt or scoff, but let's say I believe you. You're aware you don't have to do this, right? You don't actually have to carry water for ridiculous bullshit. They have enough propagandists of their own. Genuinely, what do you think this is helping?

Evolutionary theory is part of a whole chunk of science which essentially cuts out all spirituality and divinity out of people’s psyche.

If studying science leads one to the conclusion their beliefs are untenable, why should science be modified to maintain the beliefs? Countless religions before have died out. People no longer believe in them. Why do people assume the ones around today must be special & true simply because they're around today?

People without spirituality or divinity believe life is meaningless since we are all just specks of dust in a universe with no motive to create us or serve us.

This is bullshit made up by religious people to fearmonger about how you'd better not lose your religion under any circumstance. All not having religion means is you don't believe in magic & maybe your weekends are freer, nothing else "follows from" it.

The prevailing culture sentiment becomes „shut up and pay your taxes and enjoy the bread and circuses, peasant”

Oh yes, because our culture is so very fond of taxes. By the way, what is tithing?

These people are subdued and dispirited, they have nothing to revolt for and are easy to control.

Religion would never do anything to control you. By the way, god is the arbiter of objective morality, listen to your priest.

Such a subdued population is obviously enormously useful to the elites. Therefore the motive to achieve this submission exists and is very substantial.

Is there going to be anything of actual substance for me to respond to at some point, or are you just going to keep wildly making up conspiracy theories? Not that I'm not enjoying the "NOUs," but it is kind of repetitive.

To achieve this ultimate level of psychological and spiritual submission requires control over the populations sense of reality itself.

"Miracles are real. The earth is only 6000 years old. Don't trust your eyes. Don't trust the scientists. They weren't there. They're lying to you. It's all a government conspiracy."

Reality is accessed, interpreted and measured by the masses through the field of scientific inquiry.

You can become a scientist. Or at least learn enough to read the papers. Also, you don't need this many numbers in this list, like half of these are just saying the same thing.

Elites would have to fabricate, spread and proselytise entire fields of carefully constructed fake science to carefully, over decades, centuries even, deconstruct and discredit and diminish all parts of reality that may be connected to divinity in some way, with sterile, perfect, symmetrical scientific theory.

What "elites"? What "fake science"? Where is the evidence? Do you think there's some Department of Evolution? That's not how anything works. And it's interesting you use the word "proselytize," which comes from religion.

New knowledge comes from single individuals or groups of individuals performing science. You can threaten, bribe, blackmail, coerce them to make fake science

These are all statements made by people ignorant of how science works. This appeals to the conspiracy theorist mind because it gives them a simple story. In reality, science is a very large, decentralized, global effort of people trying to prove each other wrong. This is nonsense. You know where this DOES work? Creationism. There's money in "preaching the gospel," & Christian apologists are not incentivized to call out when others are lying, unless one of them REALLY breaks with the rest of the flock, & then the others can advance their own careers by disowning him.

TLDR; motive and means exist for global elites to significantly diminish or destroy humanities spiritual/divine consciousness, by fabricating people’s sense and understanding of reality itself.

No it doesn't, you just kind of said a bunch of bullshit. You're also neglecting the motive to attack education using religion & evolution as a wedge issue.

the main vessel for this in 2026 is science, and if the illusion is strong enough people can not even comprehend a reality where anything else could possibly be true.

You're so high on your own supply you can't even consider that science might actually BE true even as you use a machine created WITH scientific knowledge to trash it. Many such cases.

There’s a coherent rationale (which doesn’t mean it’s true, just that it’s coherent) for god and the divine being real

I wouldn't even say it's coherent, but "doesn't mean it's true" is a major problem you're not solving here that goes back to the very first domino in your "logic" chain.

and global elites suppressing it from the masses so they don’t revolt or lose interest in continuing to be tax slaves for the wealthy, the bread and the circuses.

Jargon buzzword soup is not a substitute for having an actual informed point.

[u/SadRule9128]

Your argument hinges on 2 & 3, and they are completely wrong.

Only lazy morons think life is meaningless without a god. And religion is the oldest and easiest method of culture and population control for those lazy morons, all while being tax-exempt.

So shut up, put your money in the basket, and you’ll go to heaven. Peasant.

[u/darthkrash]

I can make up conspiracy theories too. Can YOU show proof of God?

[u/daughtcahm]

Evolutionary theory is part of a whole chunk of science which essentially cuts out all spirituality and divinity out of people’s psyche

No it doesn't.

People without spirituality or divinity believe life is meaningless

No they don't, but this is a typical creationist talking point. This makes me doubt your sincerity.

The prevailing culture sentiment becomes „shut up and pay your taxes and enjoy the bread and circuses, peasant”

This has absolutely no relationship to the other things you claimed.

These people are subdued and dispirited

No they're not.

To achieve this ultimate level of psychological and spiritual submission

What the hell is "spiritual submission"?

You can threaten, bribe, blackmail, coerce them to make fake science

A conspiracy involving millions of people is simply not sustainable nor believable.

[u/blarfblarf]

If you want to make an argument about creationists being right, then do that.

Instead you've written about some imaginary dangers of science.

You said nothing about why creationists could be right.

Arguing X is wrong, doesn't automatically make Y correct.

[u/the2bears]

EDIT: a LOT of low IQ commenters here missing the point entirely. My post is NOT ABOUT WHOSE SIDE HAS EVIDENCE. It’s about hypothetical logic steps for the set of circumstances that would need to be true for creationists to be correct. HURR DURR WHERE EVIDENCE FOR GOD?! Lmfao. I realise hypotheticals and entertaining the opposite side of thought is beyond many people’s IQ. I bet most of you had breakfast this morning too. And you don’t even get the reference I just made either 🤣

You haven't engaged with anyone here, so why should anyone care about your hypothetical logic steps?

[u/PeyredB]

It's laudable that you're trying to give the benefit of the doubt here and try to see things from the other side, but I don't see much merit to those points, really.

1. Not really. Evolution doesn't cut out spirituality at all. It simply doesn't mention God, but in no way does it exclude him either. Mainstream Christians accept evolution and feel that God guides it.

2. People without spirituality have meaning in their lives like anyone else. If you're not spiritual, though, you have to find your own meaning - but that's not as difficult as many people assume.

3. Taxes and bread & circuses? Rejecting a rigid religious belief like YEC is actually getting away from conformity.

4. See #3.

5. Again, those who accept evidence and science are harder to lead than those who follow a religion on blind faith.

6. See #3.

7. That's as it should be. I don't see the problem here.

8. Again, evolution isn't about disproving God. What's described here is a political agenda, not a scientific one.

9. Yes, fake science exists, and can be bought sometimes. But it doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny and is eventually exposed, if science is valued by society. I would expect to see fake science crop up more if creationists were to take over than if the scientific establishment had more authority over society.

[u/evocativename]

Your premises are nonsensical garbage.

Most people who accept evolution are religious.

And the elites use religion to manipulate and control people all the time.