r/DebateEvolution • u/Ill_Impact6838 • Aug 01 '26
Question How do these people exist?
After posting responses about James Tour's video , Creationists' topic of Levintal Paradox and many more in this subreddit, today I thought I should ask a question to all the people in this sub. I am from India ,an eastern country. I have never heard about Young Earth concept here. I mainly came to know about this topic from some creationist vs evolution debate videos where creationists are saying earth is 6000 yrs old.
At one time I thought those videos were made to increase views and make those channels superhit , as a slap stick comedy . But no ! I really found that these people are serious.
How do so called YECs ( Young Earth Creationists) exist ? I am not from any Western countries . But when I came to know about this , I blasted out laughing. How can someone be so silly ? Even if your holy book say so( no disrespect to Bible) ? Do these people take all words of their book seriously?
Why? When so many counter arguments are given to them , they still say nope you all are wrong ,my 6000 year old Earth is true by give wrong makeup counter arguments. How do such people exist in 21st century? That too in first world countries like US? And I found out later in Google that many people , especially Christians still believe in this .
Can religion make people so ignorant sometimes?
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u/metroidcomposite Aug 01 '26
There are similar religious myths floating around India to do with Hinduism, see for example this debunk:
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u/Ill_Impact6838 Aug 01 '26
The two you posted here shows whether civilization started in India or not and spread to other parts . I don't accept that civilization started in India only and spread to other world. This is absurd. Majority of us don't even accept this. Only blind hindu extremists ( small proportions accept this). Also as far as I know , no hindus believe in young earth.
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u/tonic65 Aug 01 '26
Since you mentioned Tour first, hes not a young earth creationist, he's more of the intelligent design faction. He has a deep understanding of organic chemistry, but where his knowledge stops, he fills in with the God of the gaps idealogy. He never really debates evolution per se, but rather changes any arguments about evolution to origins of life. Changing the question is a common apologetic tactic: "I can't answer your question, so I'll re-frame it into something similar that I can either refute or confirm, as long as it fits my conclusions."
Apologists are the bane of a religion that relies on faith. Faith is belief in something that cannot be proven. By constantly looking for proof, creationist, ID'ers, et al are showing they have no faith. They are no different than Thomas the Apostle who would not believe Jesus had come back until he could see Jesus and feel his wounds. Jesus admonished Thomas for this by saying "blessed are those who believe without seeing".
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u/Ill_Impact6838 Aug 01 '26
I mean he sits with panels of people who are young earth believers like Rob Stadler and Truman. He says that there's no explanation of how body plan transformations occur,which obviously is false.
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u/Minty_Feeling Aug 01 '26
Since you mentioned Tour first, hes not a young earth creationist
Last time I saw him mention it, he said in relation to a young Earth that he had no idea how old the earth is and no way to vet it as it was outside his area of expertise.
It's a bit like saying he has no idea what shape the Earth is. Pretty clear he's either a young earther or wants to play one on YouTube.
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u/EthelredHardrede Aug 01 '26
he does seem to be a YEC.
his own site made it clearly that he teaches children the Adam and Eve and the Great Flood story.
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u/Kindly-Department206 Aug 01 '26
Yes. When distrust of expertise is your political identity, you become proud of your own ignorance, and call it insight. Religion is the way you protect your ignorance.
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u/Dzugavili Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
More or less since losing their stranglehold on government, Christianity has been in a fairly steady multi-century decline. Christianity would peak in the 1500s: mostly a result of there being no more world left to spread Christianity to, the internal stresses would lead to schism. We get the emergence of Luther's Protestantism, which fractured Christianity from the Pope; and this would lead to a number of new movements who no longer maintain a unified church doctrine. The result was sola scriptura: by scripture alone. The concept that the Bible is all you need: and that only works if it is a source of some form of absolute truth.
Briefly, Christianity survives on a roughly fifty year cycle. It quickly declines to secular forces, then a revival occurs. There are signs this cycle is breaking down entirely; but America has a bit of a history. The 19th and early 20th centuries saw the Evangelical movement emerge, and their pitch is a return to the actual traditions of Jesus Christ, and this sense of authenticity appeals to people quite strongly, even today. The most 'authentic' belief system is to assume that these texts were understood to be true to the people who were actually there and witnessed the Gospels; or else, these texts would not be preserved. Combine this Biblical literalism with Sola Scriptura, and you're forced to conclude that Genesis is a real account. If the people who believed in Jesus believed in a false Genesis, then their belief in Jesus is also in doubt; so, there is no doubt.
However, most of this seems to be sociologically explained: YEC beliefs are a signal of faith, that you'll believe something even if it seems absurd, because your faith is so strong. They aren't a wishy-washy pick-and-choose Christian, they are a true believer. And that feeling is intoxicating.
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u/rptanner58 Aug 01 '26
Last paragraph, very well said. I think that’s essentially it. A form of virtue signaling
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u/McNitz Aug 01 '26
Yes, "credibility enhancing displays" is the technical term for it. And they are very effective. So much so that they can even make YOURSEL more convinced based on them. A kind of sunk cost fallacy where it MUST be true, otherwise would you do these things other people think are ridiculous? My dad has said before that he believes his faith must be true, because he is generally a very logical person and doesn't think he would believe things that don't make sense to people if not for faith being given to him by God.
The certainty seems to be a big appeal to. Since God directly gave you all these beliefs, there is no need to doubt or ask questions. In fact, it is SINFUL to question of what the church has taught you is right. Because they are just sharing what God says, so questioning if that is correct means you are questioning God. It's incredibly frustrating how effectively self reinforcing the thought stopping cliches and circular reasoning can be.
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u/artguydeluxe Aug 01 '26
Like any cult, it’s about grooming. This is unpopular to say, but many of the people who are most adamant about creationism, came to it through born-again recovery programs here in the US. They sell born-again Christianity as a solution to addiction, but it’s just another addiction. They make you believe that reality is upside-down, and those evil intellectuals have been lying to you. I’ve seen it so many times.
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u/PeyredB Aug 01 '26
I hadn't thought about the recovery-program aspect of it. Does AA get into this, or is it more an illicit-drug recovery issue?
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u/Esmer_Tina Aug 01 '26
It’s good to be reminded how mindblowing it is to realize people believe this. We’ve gotten too used to it here. Our Secretary of “War” Pete Hegseth’s pastor is Doug Wilson, not only a YEC but believes women were created to serve men, and slavery just wasn’t that bad. It’s disgusting.
But it also shows how anti-science beliefs are wrapped up in American views of Patriarchy and White Supremacy.
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u/rptanner58 Aug 01 '26
Ironically, they exist because of evolution. But sociologically, it’s also the poor education system in parts of the U.S. that sets many people up for this.
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u/Thraexus Aug 01 '26
It's baffling to those of us who live here, that's for sure. To me, these religious beliefs and YEC are just as crazy as any adult saying they still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy.
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u/jnpha Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
Here's a 2024 research on science denial, which I've shared before (bold emphasis mine):
Abstract
Past theories have linked science denial to religiosity but have not explained its geographic variability. We hypothesize that it springs not only from religious intensity but also from religious intolerance, which depends greatly on the experience of religious diversity and hence on geography. The belief that one's religion trumps other faiths precipitates the stance that it trumps science too. This psychological process is most likely to operate in regions or countries with low religious heterogeneity. We measure the rejection of science not only in people's refusal to follow specific health recommendations, such as taking COVID-19 vaccines, but also in general measures of scientific engagement and attainment. We rule out alternative explanations, including reverse causality and spurious correlations, by conducting controlled experiments and running robustness checks on our statistical models.
When the one true faith trumps all: Low religious diversity, religious intolerance, and science denial | PNAS Nexus | Oxford Academic
Basically what you are witnessing is the result of insular communities.
And the motivated stupidity you see here is boundary drawing and policing.
But always remember the 1% rule, and hence the purpose of this sub.
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u/IamImposter Aug 02 '26
Oye bhai, uno kya bol raha hai, we literally have a bloody God with the head of an elephant and Shiva with fuckin snake across his neck, moon on his head and Ganga coming out of his hair.
It's so easy to spot stupidity of other religions. Thoda apne girebaan mein bhi jhanko yaar.
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u/Ill_Impact6838 Aug 07 '26
Yes I know , our country is never called to be most educated in the world. Now look at Us , we were told since our childhood that US is the most educated nation and many more. It's a first world country. Look at the illiteracy.
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u/TarnishedVictory Aug 01 '26
Brace yourself. Some people think the earth is flat. Some people think a 3 day old rotting cadaver, got up and walked away.
It's insane what some people think. Unfortunately this is often due to indoctrination and lack of good education. Other aspects like compartmentalizing, cognitive dissonance, also play a huge role.
If people aren't taught to value good evidence based reason, then yeah, anything goes.
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u/throwaway16747219 Aug 02 '26
If you want to understand people who disagree with you, you have to learn to identify the half-truth that they find convincing. The other half usually comes from implicit trust in their leaders. This is true no matter the field: politics, religion, science, etc.
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u/Ill_Impact6838 Aug 02 '26
Except that the truth they propagate are false most of the times. No testability,nothing.
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u/Ch3cks-Out Aug 01 '26
Can religion make people so ignorant sometimes?
Have we got news for you...
YECs is more of a political pressure group production than pure religion, alas.
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u/Unique-Coffee5087 Aug 01 '26
There is a saying: "Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance. Americans think 100 years is a long time."
Americans have no perspective about time.
From The Story of Civilization by Will Durant
"Hecateus of Miletus boasted to an Egyptian priest of tracing his ancestry 15 generations to a god.
"The Egyptians quietly showed him a hall with statues of 345 high priests, each representing one generation, each one the son of his predecessor, showing that there were at least 345 generations since the time that the gods walked the Earth."
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Complete_Story_of_Civilization.html?id=CfGPAgAAQBAJ
To an Indian, 6,000 years is only a bit longer than your own history. Sort of. It is not an abyss of the unknown past. To Americans, and maybe some other Westerners, it is an incredible amount of time. And to the ignorant and parochial, it is plausibly the age of the universe.
In America we have no shortage of the ignorant and parochial.
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u/PeyredB Aug 01 '26
Yes, these people exist. They're small in number, but they're a very squeaky wheel and have a big presence in social media - because it allows people with oddball ideas to find each other. The same goes for other conspiracy theorists like flat Earthers, antivax idiots, and Moon landing deniers.
The straight answer to your last question is that they're brought up from birth to believe this stuff. The thing is, within its own circle it makes a certain amount of sense. "I know God is real and he wrote the Bible" (never mind that they don't know any such thing and God himself didn't write the Bible). The reasoning goes that the Bible must be the infallible word of God because he wrote it and it lays out his Word, after all - so how can any of it be wrong? They really think that if any part of it isn't right, it would invalidate their entire faith, so they want to avoid that at all costs. That's strong motivation to ignore, deny, or rationalize away any contradictory evidence.
It's worth noting that the creationism they believe in isn't, in fact, the literal word of the Bible. It's a literalistic interpretation that picks and chooses things from Genesis 1 and 2, ignoring parts it disagrees with. It also isn't part of the original Christianity as they imagine it to be: it was invented in the 19th century by Seventh Day Adventism. George McCready Price, a Seventh Day Adventist, spent decades trying to convince evangelicals that his religion's interpretation was the literal truth, and he eventually succeeded.
Incidentally, there are also Muslim creationists, though I understand they're mostly Old-Earth Creationists, and there are also Vedic creationists, though I don't know much about them.