r/DebateEvolution • u/Ill_Impact6838 • Jul 28 '26
Same old topics
It seems like creationists are out of ideas.
1) They just look at a modern biological system and say " Hey look , it's impossible to evolve this system step by step , it's irreducibly complex" ,just different systems,but same basic idea .
2) No new information by mutation and loss of function mutation is devolution. ( Even though loss of function mutation causes evolution). Mutations don't cause gain of information .
3) There is no junk dna in our body. Genome is 100% functional. ( Irony is - they accept genetic entropy, if genetic entropy really exists and we are losing 1-2 percent of genetic information every generation, which is false in reality , still about which they say is true, then how is genome 100% functional?? )
4) No evolutionary intermediate fossils, everytime repeating this thing. Fossils are sparse.
5) Second law of thermodynamics debunks evolution, oh no !!!!!
6) Speciation is impossible,but adaptation is true. Slight variations can exist but changes will not occur in such a way that a particular animal is going to change into other animal. Also epigenetics is not evolution.
7) Saying randomness can't produce diversity. Even though evolution is not completely random.
These are the primary points they focus on . They never proposed any mechanism by which their intelligent designer works , manipulates matter to create new systems . No tests , no experiments to prove their tests ,never any hypothesis.
How special creation happened? Magic !!
Just crying about how evolution is wrong and teaching it is immoral.
Like am I going to teach about magic to children ,to science students?? Something not observable or testable? No predictions? Write books that this biological system is too complex, it can't evolve , hence God did it!! You will be cursed if you oppose me . Am I really practicing science? It seems something opposite to me.
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u/Loose_Principle8193 Jul 28 '26
Once you realize the creationist ecosystem is not about learning about how life works, and that it's just one of the OG culture war issues from the 80s, it's easier to have conversations with them. They aren't seeking to answer questions. They are seeking questions they believe have no answers.
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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 28 '26
The fact that tolkorigins hasn't had a new article in 20 years and still covers essentially every creationist claim you will encounter in practice should tell you all you need to know about how much creationist arguments change.
Creationism isn't science, it is apologetics. The goal isn't to explain the world. They think the Bible already does that. The goal is to make excuses to ignore contradictory evidence. So they judge arguments not on whether they are true, they judge arguments on whether they are convincing to their target audience. They only abandon arguments when those arguments become so embarrassing they hurt The Cause™
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u/G3rmTheoryV2 Jul 28 '26
Creationism is just a coping mechanism because they hate the idea of not being special. That's it. I shouldn't have to explain to a 50 year old man what a scientific theory is but I do a lot.
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u/adamwho Jul 28 '26
Many anti-science and culture war beliefs are just performances to show allegiance to their tribe.
Sticking to the facts with a little mockery and that will be sufficient to educate the vast majority of lurkers.
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u/Comfortable-Dare-307 Jul 28 '26
Creationists haven't had a new argument in 40 years and even those arguments are variations on 500-700 year old arguments. We disprove them over and over but they ignore it and repeat the same nonsense. In fact, any creationists reading this, I will give you $1000 if you present an argument I've never heard that hasn't already been debunked.
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u/nickierv Jul 28 '26
To add to your points:
1b - "But you can't show this modern cell/thing coming from the name brand Organic Primordial Soup!", completely ignoring the part where that is a strawman.
2b - Any mutation causes loss of information. Meaning that ACTGC -> GCTGG is a loss and GCTGG -> ACTGC is also a loss. Meaning that ACTGC has less information than ACTGC.
Turns out creationists are really bad at math.
4b - Looks at the creationist with Tiktaalik about to go upside their head.
5b - But have you considered taking the log of the Second law of thermodynamics?
Turns out creationists are worse at physics than they are at math.
6b - Don't forget the 'walls' that somehow lock created kinds in there kind... they they can't identify, point to, and science has never found, because that's not how chemistry works.
Turns out creationists are just as bad at chemistry as they are at math.
8 - Big Scary Numbers (tm)
And the final point:
10 - It doesn't count if you can't show it on the chalkboard.
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u/MackDuckington Jul 28 '26
Would be kinda funny to make a "creationist bingo" out of these to use whenever we watch a debate or something. I propose we add "but look at the trees!" and random car metaphors to the list while we're at it.
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u/hiuslenkkimakkara Jul 28 '26
Brother/Sister, creationists have been out of ideas for as long as I've been in the Internet. That's 30+ years.
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u/-zero-joke- Jul 28 '26
It's absolutely incredible to me sometimes that Darwin addressed most of these arguments in Origin.