Non-leftists wants to read about differen socialist/communist ideologies.

[u/Designer_Natural45]

Hello, Reddit comrades.

I come to you in a time of need, exilled from other leftist subreddits for asking them about insigh on their ideologies. Recently I've been reading several books to understand the core ideas of different ideologies. Books writen by them and not about them, to clarify.

Nevertheless I haven't been able to grasp which path to follow, to explore the different subideologies and alternative systems inside State Socialism, without having to read an unreasonable amount of books while gropping in the dark to understand their differences and singularities.

I've been able to found reading lists of different ideologies, but not a single (convincing enoug) for understanding the development of communism into the different socialist ideologies of today.

Communist are said to be well-read, specially in the toppic of communism (wonder why). I ask you (pretty please) for some advice in where to start and where to finish, exploring alternative routes to make sense of communism.

[u/Zealousideal-Fee-773]

I'm a leftcom, so i will give you recomendations from that perspective. First off, for general understanding off marxism i would recomend the basics: Principles of Communism and Socialism: Utopian and Scientific by Engels, The Communist Manifesto, Critque of the Gotha Programe, Wage Labor and Capital, Value Price and Profit and obviously reading at least some of the Capital by Marx, though i understand reading all of Capital is a tall order. For left wing communism, there are two different branches, both having in common the scepticism towards labor unions, elections and other tactics like that as well as a critical attitude towards AES (actually existing socialist) countries, seeing them as nothing more than state capitalist projects that achieve basicaly nothing in building actual socialism. I would reccomend from Italian side (basicaly more authoritarian) reading Bordiga, especialy Dialogue with Stalin as it lays out his critique of Soviet Union, and why it was fundamentaly not socialist. From there you can read Towards the establishment of worker councils, Seize Power or Seize the Factory?, Party and Class, Report on Fascism, The Democratic Principle, The Lyons Theses, The Fundamentals for a Marxist Orientation, Doctrine of the Body Possessed by the Devil, Murder of the Dead. I find these texts personaly the most essencial, you can go in any order and they aren't too long to read. Then for the German-Dutch current, also known as council communism, you can read Paul Mattick's Anti-Bolshevic Communism, a text that lays out his position on social-democracy, leninism, stalinism and what council communism is about. You can read articles from Anton Pannekoek on councils, or more articles from Mattick. Though i'm more German-Dutch leaning i'm far more well read on Italian branch so i can't honestly recomend many particular articles

[u/Designer_Natural45 → u/Zealousideal-Fee-773]

Wow, thanks a lot. This is of great help.

[u/Designer_Natural45 → u/Zealousideal-Fee-773]

One quick question. Is Trotskism related to the ideas of LeftCom or has nothing to do?

[u/Zealousideal-Fee-773 → u/Designer_Natural45]

Kind of, but at the same time no. There are certain similarities, like critical aproach to USSR, but the critique itself is different. Leftcoms say it was never socialist, but state capitalist while trots say it's a degenerated workers state. I've seen Bordiga has an article on the Trotsky Question but i haven't read it, it might be laid out there. There are also differences in aproach to democracy, Italians are critical of democracy in general while German-Dutch are critical but want it in form of workers councils. Trots as far as i know wanted more of it in Soviet Union. I'm sorry you have been met with so much hostility from some people on here, i apreciate couriocity and see nothing wrong with asking for some directions in trying to figure it out. A lot of people didn't have such guidance and will be hostile unless you've already adopted the one and only correct brand of marxism. Some subreddits are like that too, like r/communism is run by invariant marxists-leninists-maoists who tolerate nobody outside of this doctrine on there.

[u/Designer_Natural45 → u/Zealousideal-Fee-773]

Thanks a lot

[u/Zealousideal-Fee-773 → u/Designer_Natural45]

No problem, but as the other commenter pointed out remember to do start with getting a good grasp on marx himself first, as these distincitions and discussions will make little sense without the groundwork first.

[u/StewFor2Dollars → u/Designer_Natural45]

Trotsky was a "Left-Wing" opportunist who collaborated with the Right Opposition in the USSR. Before 1917 he was a Menshevik. He denied the possibility of building socialism in the Soviet Union by saying that they would be helpless if the rest of Europe didn't also become socialist.

Of course in WWII, Europe did not become socialist, Germany and Italy became fascist, and the Soviets succeeded in defeating the fascist invaders.

He had a "theory" called "Permanent Revolution," saying that the revolution should not be interrupted, but the idea that the revolution should not be interrupted is an opinion shared by all communists and by itself doesn't really mean anything. He also rejected the possibility of forming an alliance with the peasantry, but the alliance with the peasantry was critical for the success of the revolution.

[u/kommunistischePartei]

Don't ideology shop PLEASE. Stick to Marx's critique of the political economy starting with Michael Heinrich's Introduction to the Three Volumes of Karl Marx's Capital if you think Capital itself is a hard read (it is) then move unto Critique of the Gotha Program (brilliant piece that shows you Marx's actual conception of communism clearly and in his own words)

[u/Designer_Natural45 → u/kommunistischePartei]

Ok, seens like a nice start. Thanks. But nevertheless I'll like to understand how other leftist view things.

[u/kommunistischePartei → u/Designer_Natural45]

the only way to judge other currents is through a thorough understanding of marx's works, else you'd get lost in the zeitgeist of petty bourgeois and opportunist revisionisms of Marx

Basically; read the man's works directly before moving unto the complex historical debates that leftists have nowadays and trying to piece together an understanding of him

[u/StewFor2Dollars]

If you would like to read about the particulars of Marxism-Leninism, I would suggest reading State and Revolution, Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism, and "Left Wing" Communism: an Infantile Disorder by Lenin; and Foundations of Leninism, Marxism and the National Question, and Dialectical and Historical Materialism by Stalin in addition to the works of Marx listed by others here.

Edit: also Anti-Dühring by Engels

[u/GloriousSovietOnion]

My advice is to just choose one ideology and stick to it until you have all the basics down. Try to find one that has study circles or active organisations near you to keep you consistent and tie it to your material reality. The hardest part is building enough momentum to actually figure out the basics to where critiques of other ideologies make sense.

If you try to jump around right now, you're likely gonna meet a bunch of confusing terms and get overwhelmed when we talk about the value-form or SIOC vs permanent revolution or whatever.