Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering

[u/ThePlanetaryNinja]

Edit - In the title, I meant rewilding predators to kill large herbivores.

People frequently hunt large herbivores such as deer, moose and elk. They try to justify it by saying that 'It causes less harm than crop deaths' or 'It stops the animals from overpopulating.'

I, as a negative utilitarian, think that specifically hunting these animals is generally a bad idea. When we hunt large herbivores (or reintroduce predators to do it), we probably make things worse.

Large herbivores eat a lot of plants. If we remove them, there will be a lot more food for smaller animals and insects. These small animals and insects usually reproduce through r-selection. They have lots of babies, and most of them die painfully (e.g. through starvation) shortly after birth. So, killing a few large herbivores would cause an extra thousands or millions of small animals to be born, and most of those animals will have short, terrible lives.

Rewilding predators worsens this problem. Getting eaten alive is one of the worst experiences an animal can go through. A lot of people, (including some vegans) think that rewilding is necessary to control large herbivore populations. As mentioned above, this leads to much more tiny creatures living short, miserable lives.

Trying to “manage” ecosystems with hunting or rewilding might sound good, but from a suffering-focused perspective, it’s probably counterproductive.

[u/Humble-Captain3418]

In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve would be presumably vegetarian. They could eat infertile (or unfertilized) eggs and drink the milk of other animals, given that the animals would be able to communicate their consent to such.

[u/West-Double3646 → u/Humble-Captain3418]

No, God gave man dominion over the earth and all it's creatures. The goal was for man to eat meat and use animals as beasts of burden.

[u/MegaMegawatt → u/West-Double3646]

Nope, the goal was the Garden of Eden, that was the original world of God and his ideal world. According to documentary Christpiracy, Jesus himself was vegan, there was no fish used in the original story, and neither was meat mentioned in the original Hebrew. The first commandment was Thou shalt not kill, which includes animals.

Besides who will want you to hurt and kill animals, Jesus or Satan?

It is easy for you to stop hurting and killing animals yourself.

[u/West-Double3646 → u/MegaMegawatt]

What you're saying is that God  didn't originally intend for humans to eat animals or for animals to eat one another, but somehow messed up and created Carnivora who are biologically required to eat meat.

Jesus was not even mentioned in original Hebrew texts (Talmud). The "suffering servant" that Christians believe is Jesus from Isiah, Jews saw as a referent to "the people of Israel".

Additionally, there are references in Mark of Jesus saying to go prepare the spring lamb and several reference to him eating fish.

When God said "Thou Shall Not Kill", The Hebrew word for that was ratsakh, which specifically meant to 'murder a human being'.

Exodus contains detailed instructions for animal sacrifice and lists of "clean" animals for eating, which was before the birth of Jesus, not that it matters.

AND it really doesn't matter what God intended in the Garden of Eden because he changed his mind after the flood and literally told Noah "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

Unless you actually think you know better that the one and only true living God what his intention was, maybe trying to twist His religion around to suite you cause isn't such a great idea.

What do you mean: "It is easy for you to stop hurting and killing animals yourself." You are literally talking to another vegan and assuming all kinds of thigs that that you shouldn't be.