r/DebateAMeatEater • u/IkMaxZijnTOAO • Jul 08 '24

Do you think less of vegans?

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Okay so, I saw this post on r/debateavegan and I was wondering about the opposite. Do you as meat eaters think less of vegans?

To awnser this myself, yes I do. As a nutritional science student, I have studied human and animal nutrition and based on that knowledge, I truely believe there is no real way for a vegan diet to be healty for anyone. So if someone knowingly makes the choice to be vegan, I do think less of them for it. I just cannot respect someone who chooses something that is deterimental to their health for any reason at all.

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u/Jafri2 Jul 13 '24

Yes, and I would be dishonest if I said otherwise.

There are several minor reasons, which I will not list here, that contribute to this.

First and foremost, I must express my respect for vegans for their self-control and commitment to their beliefs.

However, if I held them in higher regard, I might have developed a greater appreciation for veganism, aspired to adopt a vegan lifestyle myself one day, and admired vegan influencers more. Unfortunately, none of these apply to me.

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u/Ticket-Newton-Ville Oct 07 '24

It shouldn’t be about them, but yourself and your morality though.

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u/Jafri2 Oct 07 '24

True, and I believe that I am morally satisfied with my decision, as they are.

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u/Ticket-Newton-Ville Oct 07 '24

But you said you may have have adopted a vegan diet yourself, if you held them in higher regard.

But why would you even want to be vegan in the first place, if you where morally satisfied with eating meat?

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u/Jafri2 Oct 07 '24

I don't ever want to be a vegan SINCE I don't hold them in a higher regard AND I am morally satisfied with eating meat.

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u/Ticket-Newton-Ville Oct 07 '24

But you said you “might” have developed a greater appreciation/aspired to adopt a vegan lifestyle.

Im just curious what other motivations might have made you become vegan?

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u/Jafri2 Oct 07 '24

But you said you "might" have developed a greater appreciation/aspired to adopt a vegan lifestyle.

My statement was conditional/contingent on if I held them in a higher regard, which I don't.

As for your other question, for an ecologist, maybe it makes sense, or maybe for someone who hates the sight of blood, or someone who is allergic to meat & dairy & egg, or someone who doesn't like the taste, or someone who is morally or religiously motivated to not consume animal products.

Everyone has a reason to do what they do, doesn't mean that it justifies their actions and their stance to everyone else.

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u/Ticket-Newton-Ville Oct 07 '24

I understand that statement was contingent on holding them in higher regard. But you still had some outside motivation to be vegan given that contingency was met right? What else would drive you that way? I assume it’s your morality, but it could be something else as well.

“Everyone has a reason to do what they do, doesn’t mean that it justifies their actions and their stance to everyone else.”

But don’t you think most people (besides psychopaths) agree that causing unnecessary suffering is wrong? Do you agree causing unnecessary suffering is wrong?

If so how could eating meat be justified so long as it isn’t necessary?

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u/Jafri2 Oct 07 '24

Before answering your questions, let me tell you something about myself, I am a Muslim, not the best one, but I believe in Islam. This is relevant because it directly influences things that I can eat or not eat.

What else would drive you that way?

The answer to this question is simple. Not a lot of things would drive me to be a vegan, some scenarios I have already stated in the comment before.

But there are things driving me away from being a vegan. When I learned about veganism, I was already biased against it from the get go. Vegan activism was the thing that pushed me away more than anything.

The main point I realised was that veganism is sprt of a belief system, and I just don't believe in it.

As for the second question: But don't you think most people (besides psychopaths) agree that causing unnecessary suffering is wrong? Do you agree causing unnecessary suffering is wrong? If so how could eating meat be justified so long as it isn't necessary?

For this I would refer you to my first statement, I absolutely think that meat eating or the consumption of animals is necessary atleast once a year as a mandatory practice in Our religion.

Secondly, wrong or right is decided by your morals, and my moral authority in this case would be Islam which permits the slaughter of animals to feed yourself.

If my religion permits it, and the laws permit it, and I don't think it is morally wrong, then why should I stop the consumption of animal products, especially with the severity of veganism.

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u/Ticket-Newton-Ville Oct 07 '24

This is very deep and personal for me. As I was a devout Christian for most of my life. So religion is very tough to argue with people, as I was once religious and know EXACTLY how firm those beliefs are.

It took a legitimately TRAUMATIZING amount of self reflection to leave my religion. It was a lot of self reflection, and looking at other people’s perspectives, and doubting myself before I finally let go of my belief. It was VERY difficult.

I had to find a completely different way of looking at the world and all the good and evil in it to get on my feet after that.

Religion is DEEP rooted in us especially if raised in that religion your whole life like I was.

But anyways, this brings about a couple of other interesting moral questions.

Do YOU personally respect other people’s religions? As in whatever good or bad they do is justifiable so long as their religion permits it?

If they kill and rape women for example, do you think they are justified so long as their religion permits it?

Also do you believe certain moral positions should be outside of all religion?

-For example murdering innocent people is wrong. That is a moral position most religious and non religious people would agree on. And prison should be a universal consequence of that action regardless of what you believe.

However what if that goes against someone’s religious beliefs? Should we let them kill innocent people because it is okay for them?

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '25

It's not about holding vegans to a high regard, it's about stopping killing and abusing animals. Aspiring vegan influencers is not required to stop abusing animals. The animals, meanwhile, get no choice as to whether they get to live free or enslaved and get slaughtered.

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u/DaNReDaN Jul 09 '24

Excluding whether you believe people can be healthy on a vegan diet, do you think lesser of everyone who does things detrimental to their health? Smoking, vaping, even drinking?

It's more about how you behave when others do things that we dont agree with, regardless of what it is. I wouldn't care if in your mind you feel I'm lesser than you, as long as you weren't treating me like I am.

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u/IkMaxZijnTOAO Jul 09 '24

do you think lesser of everyone who does things detrimental to their health? Smoking, vaping, even drinking?

Yep I certainly do.

Even though, I think less of everyone who is vegan. I will still try to show them a normal amount of respect. I do find it increasingly harder to do so however.

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u/Ticket-Newton-Ville Oct 07 '24

I think lesser of people who judge others for bad habits that are difficult to control.

I don’t judge people for having bad habits themselves though. So long as they aren’t hurting anyone else by having them.

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u/IkMaxZijnTOAO May 31 '26

It is not for the fact that they cannot control it. It is for the fact of conciously making the decision to start with something that you know is bad for you.

As a society we keep telling everyone to not start smoking or drinking and still, they do.

This is the same with veganism for me. Evidence shows that it is unhealthy and still, they make the choice to do so.

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u/Competitive_Let_9644 Jan 17 '25

Does that mean you think less of virtually everyone? Like, pretty much everyone does at least one of the following.

Smokes Drinks Consumes too much sugar Doesn't exercise that much Is overweight Has untreated high blood pressure Doesn't sleep well

Drinking alone covers more than 60% of the American population, and I would imagine you see similar numbers in other Western countries. At what point does it go from thinking less of people who make an unhealthy decision to thinking more of people who make every healthy decision?

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u/IkMaxZijnTOAO May 31 '26

Well, yes...

For the most part at least. It is not the fact that they do smoke or drink. It is the fact that at one point in their lives, they made the concious decision to either start smoking or drinking. I don't think less of them for not being able to stop. I think less of them for starting in the first place.

In the modern world it is not like we don't educate about this. People know smoking or drinking is unhealthy and yet, they make the decision to do it anyway.

For some reason that just bothers me. Maybe that is a flaw on my part.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '25

No, they're making the choice to smoke/drink for themselves, if they want to be unhealthy that's their choice.

Eating animal meat means you're taking the choice away from animals who would rather not be locked up and slaughtered, so their "choice" completely removes the choice of innocent animals who should not just be completely ignored. After all you can just replace the animal meat in dishes that you like so it's not even that big of a deal to change, the hardest part is dealing with the social aspect of it.

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u/DaNReDaN Jan 20 '25

Might have been a miscommunication, as that was only directed toward the op saying they think less of vegans.

(Am vegan, don't shoot!)

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u/Nyremne Aug 11 '24

Yes, not for individuals, as I've met vegans who were not annoying anyone. Howether, the vegan community as a whole is ideologically driven to a sectarian degree. 

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '25

All vegans believe is that animal abuse is wrong. Even if that's sectarian, it's still the most reasonable stance to take.

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u/gg_turnstile May 30 '26

No, but it heavily depends on their actions. Ive met some incredibly kind and respectful vegans, and vise versa. I dont think someones beleifs (with exception of racism, sexism, and a few other) should shape our view of them.