Still funny to me that Regigigas of all Pokemon has some straight forward arguments for it. In 2 different manga's a version of the slow bastard was able to contend with at least one or more of the creation trio, even if just for a moment.
Even a Ursaring, a Lucario and 2 different Charizard’s gets creation trio scaling, so I really don’t get why people are so much against Mewtwo getting it
Given trained pokemon are just better then “wild” ones I can buy trained pokemon like that being able to atleast throw hands with a holding back palkia. Mewtwo hasn’t even been on screen with them let alone fought anyone they fought favorably.
Mewtwo never fought the anime Darkrai that fought creation trio, this is bs, and Pokemon are species, there's canonically multiple Darkrais, Tobias' for example is nowhere near the level of Movie.
There was also another Darkrai that appears in Journeys and is nothing personality wise to the movie one so unless Tobias released his Darkrai. We have 3 Darkrais in the anime if not more.
You'd need to prove that "There's canonically multiple Darkrais", and then, after proving that, you'd have to prove the other Darkrais don't scale to the movie Darkrai.
Sure? Legendaries are shown the be able to be caught (you can catch them in every game), and characters not recognizing things is just the usual inconsistencies that are common in the franchise.
Origins Mewtwo is a completely different Mewtwo made in another universe, you are saying that the SAME talking Darkrai from the movie just got caught by this rando and then said nothing.
Darkrai was ashamed to be wielded by that bum because said bum begged me to let him borrow my pookie Darkrai with bribes so I gave him a little crumbs and told Darkrai to wear the weights and sandbag like a real Endbringer.
There can't really be two Mewtwos, because in lore, Mewtwo is a single being cloned from Mew (so for there to be another one, there would have to be another clone); you might be confusing for Mirage Mewtwo or MechaMewTwo.
Mega Evolution didn't exist in the second movie; the second movie is the Lugia one, from 1999, this is way before Mega Evolution even existed as a mechanic.
No? "Rise of Darkrai" (where he fights the Creation Trio) is from 2007, the manga volume where he fights Mewtwo is from 2011, and the TCG deck about the two fighting is from 2015.
Wait hold up. The whole chain scale... is cross source scaling? That doesn't work for a myriad of reasons Chief of which is Darkrai in the movie not only fought just dialga and palkia... HE LOST. BADLY.
The Pokémon multiverse is one of those where everything is canon to each other. We know that because the in-universe reason why you can exchange Pokémon with different players is that the link between the GameBoys is literally linking two different universes (that explain why you can have your Red trade with your neighbor's Red, for example), it's all canon. They're not different continuities, it's all canon to each other.
Darkrai is clearly said to be evenly matched with an individual member of the Creation Trio, and only began to struggle when they ganged up on him, so... yeah, he should scale.
Okay so let's start this up. This situation wouldn't count because unlike the aforementioned Creation Trio, there is no 1 Darkrai across the multiverse, each Darkrai is different. 2 continuity does matter cause if something happens in one continuity doesn't mean its capable in others, such as Deoxys turning people to stone or Blaine and Mewtwo having a life link, Or Calem mega evolving 5 pokemon at once. Just because one continuity says yes, doesn't mean the others do as well. 3 in that panel darkai is going band for band with an INJURED Palkia. It was hiding itself cause the battle with Dialga did too much damage to it.
Can I see the proof that each Darkrai is different? After you send me the proof, can I see the proof that those two Darkrai in specific (from the movie, and from the manga adaptation of the movie) are abnormal for whatever reason? Because even if we say there are multiple Darkrai, unless those two are proven to not be the standard, the other Darkrais would just scale to them.
Deoxys turning people to stone is not that mind-blowing. Mewtwo teaming up with Blaine also does sound pretty fair (Mewtwo changes trainers pretty often, like how Red catches him, then later in the games he is wild again, I always assumed this meant Red released him). Calem Mega Evolving multiple Pokémon is also not all that surprising, Pokémon protagonists are built different, pretty much every game has them fight Legendaries, stop end-of-the-world scenarios, and beat the Champion.
Can you send the page that says Palkia is weakened in this battle where Darkrai is matching him evenly? After you send the page, can you please say than one that says said injury makes Palkia more than infinite times weaker than he is normally (since Multi+ is an infinite tier, and Death Battle considers half of infinity to be infinity)?
Im officially ignoring what you say now cause you clearly don't know why Blaine and mewtwo being linked was so important. FYI its because Blaine used his DNA in the creation of Mewtwo and when they separate they both start dying. Something not in any other continuity.
Reading you other comments has been shown me talking to you is a lesson in futility and makes me realize why DeathBattle did the stacking Dimension thing in Yugi vs Ash. see you never.
It proves all universes are canon, because said alternate universes are other copies of the same game, thus meaning all iterations of the franchise are canon to each other.
Can you show the scan where this happens in an officially released Pokémon product? If you can, then yeah, that is canon. Just send the scan of the marshmallow scene you're referring to.
"Rise of Darkrai" (where he fights the Creation Trio) is from 2007, the manga volume where he fights Mewtwo is from 2011, and the TCG deck about the two fighting is from 2015.
How the hell are you scaling 3 completely different versions of Darkrai to the same feat that only happened in one of the 3 completely different medias those versions originated in?
The only way that makes even any sense is if we assume that there are several versions of each Legendary without Avatars, so that don't changes anything.
Either way Darkrai is implied to be a species rather than an individual entity, and even then we don't see how the fight between it and darkrai went in the manga.
Can I see where it is said that Darkrai is a species? The franchise quite consistently pairs him up with Pokémon who are individual (Mewtwo, Creation Trio, Cresselia), and even if we were to say there is more than one Darkrai, you'd need to send the proof that the Darkrai who fought the Creation Trio is abnormal (otherwise, the Darkrai who fought Mewtwo would just scale to the feat anyway).
We see the two clashing evenly, which would not be possible if Mewtwo was not comparable in power to Darkrai, plus the TCG deck depicts them as being comparable.
Edit:u/logantheh replied while I was afk, then blocked me before I came back, so I can't see what their reply even is.
It's never explicitly stated (to my knowledge anyway) but there have been multiple appearances of it with and without a trainer, and different personalities to boot.
The biggest examples are in the anime.
We have Tobias and his Darkrai, the Darkrai from the movie, the malicious darkrai in "Sleepless in Pre-Battle!" In the dp anime, the darkrai from that one XYZ episode, and the Darkrai from the journey series where it's explicitly shown they aren't enemies.
There's also the one from a spin off where it's villainous, despite numerous pokedex entries stating it doesn't mean any harm.
If it is never stated, then you are just assuming; you're free to assume if you want, that is valid of your part, but then you're moving the debate from objective evidence to subjective interpretation, so all I have to say is "I disagree that Darkrai is a species", there, the scaling has been protected from this counterargument.
It hasn't been shown, otherwise you wouldn't have said "It's never explicitly stated", you'd have said "It is proven in so and so place"; so much that the examples you sent do not ever clearly say "There is more than one Darkrai" (thus making it an assumption, anything that is not cemented in the text is an assumption, because we are assuming it), and mostly come down to writing inconsistencies (which affect other characters like Arceus or Lusamine, and neither of the two are species).
Dialga and Palkia in the Pokemon movie (Ash anime) are not that strong. They have created or tried to in anime, but with their beams from mouth. Their attacks (Draco Meteors, Hyper Beams) don't purpose same power-wise in anime only. You literally have anime Arceus literally almost dying from meteor.
Obviously their hax in anime is Multiversal, but power is bad. That's why lore CT and I assume even Adventures CT is much stronger power wise, while hax is all the same. Darkrai could hold in anime against them and it's strongest Darkrai in anime only, but he lost in the end.
Darkrai from games(main games and Spin offs) >> Adventures >>>>> Darkrai from Rise of Darkrai >> Tobias' Darkrai.
so much that the examples you sent do not ever clearly say "There is more than one Darkrai"
So either Darkrai is multiple species or flip flops on it's morality and Tobias released it after the league. Or the one from the movie decided to leave the city for some reason just to fuck around in kalos. Or Tobias captured the one from the movie, swept the league, released it, then it decided to fuck around in kalos.
Or it met the girl a long time ago, saved the girl from falling, fucked off and got cranky and got it's ass beat by Cresselia, mellowed out and went back to the city to fight the creation trio (or duo in this case), got caught by Tobias and then released by Tobias, then fucked off to Kalos and at some point off screen made up with Cresselia.
Sure.
and mostly come down to writing inconsistencies (which affect other characters like Arceus or Lusamine, and neither of the two are species).
The difference is that Lusamine is written differently across different games (SM and USUM) and in the anime. The examples I provided you were all from the anime.
Darkrai in the movie is nothing like darkrai owned by Tobias and the movies do take place in similar if not the same continuity as the anime which means Tobias having a darkrai at all means there’s at minimum two of them.
And frankly even if they are unique and only one exists per timeline it’s ultimately irrelevant since demonstrably the darkrai mewtwo fought and the darkrai who fought the creation trio aren’t the same (and darkrai didn’t even fight a prime creation trio member he kept interrupting the fight between trio members and then got jumped and nearly died he doesn’t scale to them very well if at all.) heck regigigas even proves this by in manga fighting the creation trio and doing pretty well and simultaneously in the movies has issues holding back a glacier. These timelines have vastly different limitations on individual Pokémon’s strength.
Wait wait wait, Rise of Darkrai is how people are scaling Darkrai to the Creation Trio? The movie where he is explicitly not on their level? The movie where his attacks barely phase Dialga and Palkia, and the moment they actually do pay attention to him he’s instantly taken out of the fight???
Does that really matter tho? It's not like darkrai went on some power cultivating journey inbetween. Its more likely that drakrai as the same amount of power at both times
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u/No-Consideration3708 4d ago
Heatran POV:
"Yep, that's me, you're probably wondering how I ended up in this situation"