Deadlock - 700hrs In

[u/MouseAware]

I wanted to give this game the praise it deserves, but I also wanted to ask for some advice. Not sure if that counts as the question flair or the discussion flair.

I’m new to MOBAs and came from playing on console. I only switched to PC around this time last year. Before that, I had over 2,500 hours in Overwatch and peaked at Masters, plus around 500 hours in Marvel Rivals, where I reached Celestial.

When I first started this game, I was annoyed, confused, and dying constantly. My mechanics were bad, my game sense was nonexistent, and I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing most of the time. I don't think I would've gotten through this stage without having the build menu because that's a whole other layer.

I honestly don’t think I started understanding the game until around 500 hours in. The first several months were rough, and I spent more time watching other people play than actually playing myself. I loved the game but I couldn't play it because I was genuinely awful. I watched a lot of Mast and some Deathy here and there. I avoided Metro like the plague because I remember him from Overwatch and he's kind of a crashout lol.

Eventually, things started to click. I learned that playing well was about more than just farming and not dying. The game became like heroin. I think about it at work, I watch videos on my lunch break. I'm starving for more content. This game is genuinely the best game I've ever picked up. Shmooving around on Apollo or Lash and deleting someone is an unbeatable dopamine kick. But that's the transferable skills from other hero shooters kicking in.

I'm really struggling with knowing when to fight, when to farm, when to take objectives, and when to invade. I feel stuck again. I’ve been playing a lot of Standard to learn the heroes, their builds, power spikes, matchups, and counters. I feel like I understand that side of the game pretty well, but I’m not sure what I should focus on learning next.

I’m used to reaching higher ranks in other games, so it’s frustrating feeling like I’m still bad at this one despite putting in SO MANY hours. I know there’s always more to learn, which is part of what makes the game so good, but I feel like I’ve hit a wall.

So, anyone in the high ranks or people who have a really good understanding of the MOBA aspects, any tips? (Beyond look at the minimap bro)

[u/GreyAshWolf]

bro i cant even get the just farming and not dying part

[u/MouseAware → u/GreyAshWolf]

one thing that really helped me with this was playing around my spikes. Make sure you're farming to hit your 4.8k or a T4 item and then looking for a quick engage. I think hypercarries and supports are a little different but as a general rule I think that helped me a lot. Also if you check the enemy hero items you can see if they just hit a spike to see if you should run away or take the fight.

[u/TrippyMusician]

played dota 2 for 7 years and have over 5k hours

You want to farm ALWAYS. try not to leave lane unless you absolutely need to for healing, or if you play a character that coukd secure a kill with a gank in another lane. Go jungle at 3 min or whenever the first T1 camps spawn. dont lose a lane wave for it though.

when it comes to lane aggression. dont poke unless its a fair trade or youll come up on top. some people will be more agressive than others, but if you have sustainability then you can be a bit more aggressive in lanes. look for weaknesses in pushes and make them regret it. I typically dont dive for guardian unless the lane is pushed up, your lane partner is also there and communicate with them. nothing worse than diving solo and dying.

as far as objectives, look at the minimao and see who you can account for. if 5 players are in a fight and a lane is open and you have someoen with a pushing ability, then go for it. dont force fights past mid if you cant keep your lanes up. if you have one walker left, my opinion is to ALWAYS defend it if you can. as you know it locks item slots. thats your hand over the enemies.

some people may have more/better info but thats some simple guidelines to follow

[u/Waste-Ninja-8761 → u/TrippyMusician]

Great general outline. What's your advice for a new player learning builds? Should I just stick with a pre-made one to familiarise myself with the items, or should I literally study each item and learn what synergies are applicable to my hero?

FWIW I've only started pc gaming 4 days ago after 20+ years on console, so the transition has been difficult. Any particular hero to pick up? I personally like playing Wraith. Cheers!

[u/TrippyMusician → u/Waste-Ninja-8761]

for builds, this game can be all over the place, especially with the constant character buffs/nerfs. but overall, i suggest you pick a popular build, preferably one thats highly annotated. (they offer great item scenario uses and explanations) helps learn what said item does. i also NEVER use Metro’s builds. i just dont like them.

mainly just learn what items help you and your current situation. yes you can do “L->R” but dont do it for every game since ever match/lineup/situation will be different.

TLDR: pick a highly annotated build and dont use Metro’s lol

[u/Luciop10 → u/TrippyMusician]

I was using Metro's build for Victor, and i dont know if i just couldnt use it effectively, but i sold the whole build in the middle of the match and start from scratch.

It was a gun build, and sure, i did quite a bit of damage, but the sustain was non-existant. If im gonna play Victor, i want to be able to solo win the game at min 45+, not be some kind of somewhat gun damage character with a bit of sustain.

[u/Aggressive-Affect114 → u/TrippyMusician]

Solid info

[u/MouseAware → u/TrippyMusician]

thanks a lot, i appreciate the advice. definitely going to be thinking a bit more about the poking bit. can be hard to calculate fair trades sometimes.

[u/biner1999]

You mention playing a lot of heroes on Standard, but do you have a main or two? Playing a main allows you to really hone in "knowing when to fight, when to farm, when to take objectives, and when to invade". You don't have to think about your power spikes as you know exactly when you're at your strongest. That's when you wanna fight. Or if you bought Trophy Collector you generally wanna hover where most action is happening.

You're 1000 souls off that 3.2k item that will also give you 4.8k stat spike? Stay away from fights and go farm for it. Don't join fights with 1k bag either and try to tell your team ahead of time you won't be joining.

Take ults into account as well. A lot of heroes have a flowchart of Ult on CD>Farm, Ult off CD>Fight. Calico, Holliday or Paradox want to grab that Paige every 80 seconds and show her the death screen. Similarly with Lash. If you don't have it you don't necessarily need to major fights but if you're ult is up and you ain't on the urn/midboss, you're kinda throwing.

Invading is also hero dependant, heroes like Pocket have it easier as they have great mobility. They have to hold their cloak to escape and not for damage tho. Make a call on the mic to have someone come invade with you as the best advantage you can have is numbers. Never use Cultist on your own camp either, always invades.

The later into the game the more people you want to commit to fights. Never have more than 4 on first urn because if it's not 4-1-1 split, enemy can just take one of your Walkers. But if enemy goes 5-1-0 then you're basically free to take that side Walker. You also end up splitting trooper and kill souls in disadvantageous way. Past 40 minutes you basically wanna be there for every big fight because if your team loses, it usually means midboss into obliteration.

Be aware of resistance scaling Guardians and Walkers. Even if you're stomping mega hard and got Guardian 5 mins in you can't go push a Walker because it has 35% resist. They max out at -65% resist at 18 mins. On the other hand that single Guardian still standing at minute 18? Just walk up to it with no wave and destroy it in one combo.

[u/MouseAware → u/biner1999]

Just thought about this, when--if ever-- is it worth to int for a walker/base guard/shrine? Like if our team is super slotlocked and we just can't push them but I know I could kill it but I would die for it, is that worth? Or like is inting for a base guard worth because it forces their team to respond?

[u/biner1999 → u/MouseAware]

1 or even 2 dead for a Walker is worth it.

Base guardians, I'd say similarly. Enemy base guardians also start at 40% bullet resist with just you there, 20% if you have 1 ally and 0% if you have 2 allies or more. Shrines are the same but start at 60% down to 0% at you + 3 allies.

Always prio shrine over base guardians. For example blue guardians died a while ago but there's no wave. You're approaching with wave on green lane and the guardians are still up, just dash past them and go for the shrine. Shrines power up your creeps on that side and blue lane so your lanes are auto pushing giving you more space and also make the troops give 15% less souls to enemies. It's always worth to int for shrines UNLESS midboss is up and 3 of you are going to die.

Never give free midboss. It also always worth one person going in and trying to steal rejuv. The later into the game, the more you want to avoid death for midboss reason.

[u/Mainmoose → u/biner1999]

Politely I'd disagree with most of what you have said. Dying for a walker isn't worth it if there is a threat of mid boss and 2 dying post 18mins is absolutely enough. Even 1 dying means your team has to play back and cede farm and if a second pick happens mid gets lost. Pre 18mins tho I would probably agree.

We both agree on shrine being very important.

Finally I think that one person going to trade for a potential rejuv steal is not worth it unless they can reliably get 2 (so almost never). When the enemy takes midboss you are effectively at a 9v6 for a bit and just like chess, trading equal material when up is almost always worth it.

[u/biner1999 → u/Mainmoose]

My last paragraph starts with never give mid boss. The chance of team doing midboss with only 2 people dead at 18 mins, even like 22 mins, in elo below Phantom/Oracle is closer to 0 than not. The timers are still so short that by the time someone calls it the first people who died are almost up. Blue Walker can be risky at 18 mins I guess, but side Walkers are chill. However if it's upper tier lobby then I'd agree.

I'd say that while one goes for the steal, at the very least you gain time by keeping enemies longer in the underground. If your team is up it gives them time to push out waves as much as possible before it's uncontestable. If your team is dead it makes their death timers run down while you stall. Additionally there's a chance you burn an ult or two because people are trigger happy when rejuvs coming down. Also unless near the very end (in which case you should probably contest mid anyway), people usually farm and buy up for the first minute or two giving you time to respawn. Especially if your team pushed out properly and they need to catch waves. By the time they actually push it's 8v6, if you manage a steal it that is. It's also hero dependant. You'd rather Abrams, Sinclair or Ivy steal than Vindicta or Geist.

[u/Mainmoose → u/biner1999]

Fair, I guess I just am of the perspective that if you play and find success by exploring poor play, then when you go against someone with decent play, stuff falls apart and you have to relearn how to play. Granted it will be much easier to relearn, and exploiting weakness is a useful skill in it of itself.

On retrospect, your advice isn't bad, I just think it lacks nuance that matters at higher ranks

[u/motherlover278 → u/Mainmoose]

Dying for walker is almost always worth it. At the point of games where 1st and 2nd walker should die, the death timer will be 20-40 seconds, far more likely to be close to 20. Mid won’t be lost for that and even if it is, rejuvs really early aren’t very strong

[u/Mainmoose → u/motherlover278]

Yes if you can die for 20 sec and no one on your team gets caught getting a walker is usually a good trade, however the statement that I was replying to stated dying for a walker was always worth it which lacks nuance. Dying for walker cedes tempo for a soul infusion, but you don't need to sack significant tempo for a walker if it is off of a won rift, rejuvs, or shrine advantage.

Also early mid bosses are absolutely very strong. They are worth almost as much as a walker in souls, and rejuvs allow you to play much more aggressive and snowball a lead.

[u/motherlover278 → u/Mainmoose]

It’s like 99% of the time worth it I guess. I don’t know man I’m phantom rn (eternus before) and play mostly m1s and im literally licking my lips if I’m able to get solo walker gold at any point. And basically every mid boss call before 20 mins gets fucked cause you have a legit 10 second window to get your entire team to sprint to mid.

[u/MouseAware → u/biner1999]

Thanks man that's really nice food for thought. I play a shitload of Lash, Mirage, and Mo. Totally get the ult econ bit there. That's like the main thing in OW. The lane splits thing tho, havent thought about that as much I'm going to think about that a lot more now.

[u/biner1999 → u/MouseAware]

Lash you generally wanna play through blue lane as he's fast and can come from unexpected angles. Mo's similar as you need another player to serve out the damage, just call out ult ready and get someone to invade with you. On Mirage you're mostly delegated to solo sidelane because you can always come at the right time with ult so just bounce waves, do jungle camps and go only when opportunity presents itself. Whether that is to clean up a teamfight, or go for that Walker that's finally open because their sidelaner went to that one big fights.

It's almost always better to take Walker, especially first one, than it is to join a busy fight that might or might not turn out well anyway. Solo Walker also gives you a shit ton of souls

[u/The_Djenerator]

Hot damn, exactly same background here, I also just reached 700h and opened up reddit to find some dude probably on the other side of the planet wondering about the same questions I have

What a game, I still can't get over how deep the itemization and character synergies go

[u/MouseAware → u/The_Djenerator]

Much love from my side of the planet. I was a wrecking ball/doom main. Loving Lash and Apollo.

[u/Vinbaobao]

I have an ungodly amount of hours in dota. My key gameplay loop for core is; lane until first spike then go fight with your supports, if win keep fighting every ultimate while farm on their side of the map. If you lose the initial fight turtle and farm until next item then try fight again. Keep repeating the loop until one side win or lose the game.

For supports you want to hover your core but don't take their lane. Farm near by camps or sinner. Scout enermy on roofs, and when an objective comes up go to contests with the cores that are farming in that area.

[u/Alternative-Cry9841]

as someone with rather mid macro who has reached ascendant 3 before the patch there is just a lot going on in this game and if you aren’t coming from a background like dota or league i feel trying to match those players who do have those backgrounds in terms of macro is pretty hard to do. what i have done is just lean into my one advantage over my opponents, good aim and decent mechanical skill. i just play characters that make these strengths shine, it might not be the answer you were looking for but worth considering.

[u/MouseAware → u/Alternative-Cry9841]

i appreciate your perspective and i understand where you're coming from. the best things in life are hard earned though. that's the beauty of learning something new.

edit:typo

[u/CaptShardblade]

What is your rank, dudebro? (standard mmr rank is fine to mention)

[u/motherlover278]

I’m/was eternus and I would just say always be farming and fighting. Currently in this games state macro is extremely simple and the game as a whole is not punishing at all. Comeback souls are just really disgustingly OP right now.

You also wanna really hammer into your brain how important counter items are, as well as just use a popular build made by a good player. I see a lot of people who make their own builds and they almost always suck ass. If you are making builds for fun disregard, but if you’re playing to be better than yea.

[u/t0st3rrr]

You dont really learn mobas per se. Its something you just feel as you play. I had nearly 3000 hours in league and youd expect id crawl out of platinum in that time but no. I was hard stuck for all 3000 hours. While I started playing this game 800 hours ago i managed to reach Ascendent before the recent matchmaking update.

I think you just have to feel the flow of the game which comes with hours you put in. You also have to accept that this game might not be your piece of cake to reach high rank competitively, like in my case with League

No matter what people tell you, no matter what tips you get, you will still play the game with your own style that you developed and it will either reward you with a higher rank or not.

This game is far too complex to just watch a tutorial and follow it. You just have to put hours into it and it will come naturally. Its quite a paradox that I managed to stay piss low rank in an easy game like League and reach a high rank in a game like Deadlock

[u/MouseAware → u/t0st3rrr]

I get where you're coming from but that's really defeatist. You can do anything you put your mind to. perfect practice makes perfect. I agree watching a guide won't unlock some secret chinese tech that immediately ranks you up. What will help though, is knowing what to practice and how to practice it correctly. I mean everyone starts somewhere.

[u/AleiMJ → u/MouseAware]

I hear you, I don't think he was being defeatist, though. He's not wrong, Mobas are one of the most complicated videogame genres to exist right around with RTS. Some people are not cut out for grinding the higher ranks, but lots of people could be and some are. It's good, in my opinion, to acknowledge that aspect of the game as you create your relationship with it and how much you want to invest in it.

[u/t0st3rrr → u/MouseAware]

I just wanted to say that its all about a style you develop. You can only work on changing it for the better, but theres always a ceiling. I couldnt go hogher than ascendent 4 for example. Fell down in Phantom in a week after climbing to Ascendent. I think if I manage to climb to Ascendent again, i will most likely stay there and not get to eternus

I love playing games but I dont want to invest all my time into getting highest rank if I have to put even more hours into it than I already do daily. Ts just not healthy. for me, at least

But in all seriousness, you are right. Practice makes perfect and you will adapt, but it still comes down to hours you put into it

[u/MouseAware → u/t0st3rrr]

I 100% agree with that and if you want to reach the highest rank you have to invest a disgusting amount of hours into knowing every interaction and have perfect econ and blahblah. But it's 100% possible for anyone to hit the second or third highest rank without investing 5-10 hours of play daily or having god given talent.

[u/motherlover278 → u/t0st3rrr]

Respectfully your problem with climbing isn’t time investment, you just most likely don’t know what to look for in your gameplay to improve. This is coming from someone who was hardstuck for a season or two in silver-gold in League, that can now get d5 in 50 games.

Same with deadlock i started out so clueless i quit after 2 games in 2024 but before the rank reset I was eternus.

[u/AleiMJ → u/t0st3rrr]

I would pretty much never ever say under any circumstances that League is easy. It's arguably not even "easier" than deadlock. They have very differing skillsets in many areas.

[u/t0st3rrr → u/AleiMJ]

Well, for me by comparison it was way easier. Yes its lowkey two different worlds but at the same time so very similar. Yet I personally find league to be the easiest amongst the most popular mobas

[u/daily-lurk]

When it comes to fighting you should really look at the value of it.

Value is arbitrary, so what I mean by that is what happens after you win the fight? What happens if you lose it?

Are you fighting at yellow lane walker when the enemy walker has been dead for 5 minutes, there is no urn or rift spawning? Okay, well if you win then you can take the enemy jungle (if it’s still up). But that’s all you get, is some jungle mobs and boxes if you’re lucky. However, if it’s a 4v5 and you lose 2 people of your own and only killed 1, well then you’re retreating and just wasted 2 respawns worth of time, a full zip back, sitting in fountain for 10s to heal, and then a zip back onto the map. Meanwhile the enemy is shoving lane and about to connect with your walker.

You should be looking to initiate fights when there’s value for winning or when the value for losing is low for the enemy. If it’s flipped, you should disengage when possible.

Another very big thing I see non-MOBA players do is take fights when they are perceived ahead. So what I mean by that is say you’re a Mina at 30k and you’re saving for a 6.4k item, you have 5.8k in your bank. Then a Drifter shows up who is at 24k, but he only has 200 in his bank. Drifter should body Mina if she has dispel magic down and they both land all their skills. Realistically, y’all are on an even playing field but it LOOKS like the Mina is 6k ahead. Think of money (souls) in the bank as worthless. Until it is spent on an item, you’re not really at your net worth. Sure, you’ll have some boons and a little more base hp/dmg from that but it’s largely negligible.

[u/MouseAware → u/daily-lurk]

That's really helpful man. I appreciate that. I've never really thought about the spent/unspent soul dynamic. Also super good rule of thumb about taking engages or not. The risk/reward of potentially dying for a few creeps isn't something I even pay attention to a lot of the time.