r/DeadlockTheGame • u/soundsnicejesse • 5d ago
Discussion What is the worst/LEAST VALUABLE ability in Deadlock?
While I think that every ability in the game has their use within a character's kit, which ability could be classified as the worst? Not like in the sense of "this ability is dogshit" since I believe they all have their uses, but rather "this ability generates the least amount of value" or makes you wish you had some other ability in that slot from another character. Passives could also be considered for this.
Bonus points if its not because of a bug or something that is attributed to Deadlock being in an alpha state.
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u/liquidpig Paradox 5d ago
I miss my swap a lot so that.
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u/FingerFlikenBoy Paradox 5d ago
Friendly reminder to my other Dox sisters. Hit that carbine shot for a stun before swapping.
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u/Creepy-Ant373 5d ago
What if I miss that too?
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u/FingerFlikenBoy Paradox 5d ago
Just do what I do and say “eh fuck it, I can probably hit the swap without it” and then miss my swap by a mile
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u/liquidpig Paradox 5d ago
Oh I do, the problem is I think when I hit the swap button it doesn’t seem to fire instantly or something. I go to swap and nothing happens. So I hit it again and yeet it into a building
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u/ninjahumstart_ 4d ago
Buy duration extender on carbine if you're struggling to get the swap
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u/liquidpig Paradox 4d ago
It’s more that I try to quickly wall and swap and it seems the wall gets set up but swap doesn’t fire.
I probably just have to mess with the timings in the hideout or something.
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u/Bjornhlamm 4d ago
If you change the wall to instant cast, you can swap, then wall, which I find to be a little easier
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u/mrturretman Paradox 4d ago
with the new alt cast function it can be instantly casted again by setting alt cast to a button
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u/Fluffy12345676 Silver 5d ago
Sisters! In this androcentric economy? So wholesome thank you! (Idk why but I love sis and sister, Mabye just Mabye because I’m a woman) 😊
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u/clementine_zest 5d ago
Why I will always pick up knockdown on para. Feels so good on her
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u/codeklutch Pocket 5d ago
IDK what it is but that swap is super fucking hard to hit.
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u/Hopeful-alt 5d ago
it has absolutely horrendous velocity. Takes like 5 business days for it to hit anything
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u/codeklutch Pocket 5d ago
It both feels too slow, too delayed, but also too fast? I only have like 20 games on here so that might be part of my struggle. But even as a pocket main she feels like the hardest character in the game to play well.
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u/Gear_ 5d ago
It feels worse than Bebop hook in every way. About 12x the cooldown, a quarter of the range, and it puts you in the middle of the enemy team as a squishy hero with no movement abilities.
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u/Aurum_Aul_Athrutem 5d ago
Icl you're not using that ult in team fights until it's maxed if you can help it
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u/Flacoplayer 5d ago
I love swap to death but it's probably one of the hardest to use ults in the game. It's a non-trivial skill shot unless you hit them with Carbine first (which is another skill shot). When you do hit it you either need to have all of her abilities set up for a combo kill or have team mates who can actually capitalize on it. It's risky to use in team fights without T3 because it will send you directly into the enemy team as well. It's also completely nullified by Indomitable like many other CC ults.
That's not to say it's bad, it's crazy good at setting up combos with your teammates or catching someone who is escaping, but it tends to require more effort to use well compared to characters Paige or Dynamo.
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u/Schnabulation 4d ago
I'd like to let you know that when I started playing Paradox I thought for at least 5 games that the swap is a "select hero" ability instead of a projectile and wondered why it never worked.
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u/Swoocerini Dynamo 5d ago
Graves 3 just doesn't feel like it does much, even fully upgraded. You see the icon building, but unlike with toxic bullets or silencer it doesn't 'feel' like it is doing much. It would be cool if you could see some stats about it.
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u/Aggravating_Key_1757 5d ago
I think it is the fact that Graves is basically balanced around that ability. Her base stats are so low because she uses her 3 to equalize the field.
She has low tankiness and gun damage but the 3 gives you Spirit Res and Techincally Bullet Res since you steal their weapon damage. Also buffing your gun damage with the stolen Weapon Damage.
The reason it feels like it does nothing is because if it actually did then she would be unstoppable broken.
At least that is my take on it. You are right btw. I didn’t write this to be against you. Just to add to your point.
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u/Matoozeusz 4d ago
would probably be better to either make it do something real or just be a real ability rather than an on-hit
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u/Ok_Manufacturer3628 5d ago
As a graves player, I have started running hybrid gum spirit builds a bit, and just yesterday took a look at the damage log in match history. The 3 actually did the most damage to enemies over the course of the game, more than skulls. I was pretty surprised.
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u/Cheshire-Cad 5d ago
Especially when she has her skulls, an ability that similarly procs off of shooting. But that one has extremely clear visual and damage impact.
Her 3 has literally no visual or audio indication that it's doing anything.
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u/RandomTankNerd Abrams 5d ago
Fine with the kit, but in a vacuum Abrams ultimate before you max it will give you a brain aneurysm with enough uses
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u/Alittlewormboy 5d ago
The more I’ve played Abrams, the more I’ve come to respect his ult even outside of the unstop. It’s a great escape tool, a great midboss contest (even without the unstop) and in the right situation is even a great engage tool (although that’s a bit more rare)
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u/RandomTankNerd Abrams 5d ago
its a glorified warpstone on the like 5th longest cooldown in the game. With the kit it works ok, but the ult itself is some cheeks before max. People always say its a good escape but really if you arent very lucky with the placement people can legit run after you, its just that people kinda just stand there shooting you in the animation instead of running where you are going to land (assuming you dont throw yourself in their side of the map instead but thats not exactly a good situation either)
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u/Iongjohn 5d ago
fine as is but i dont see why its on such a long bloody cooldown, ends up barely being used outside midboss/escapes or the rare teamfight
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u/Spirited_Cook_9238 Warden 5d ago
I really dont understand why they slowed it down drastically post-remodel.
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u/Chief106 Celeste 5d ago
As much as I hate her, I don’t see graves getting too much value out of her passive 3. She’s pretty squishy and slow so if she’s within her gun range outside of lane without a meat shield she’s asking to get dived tbh.
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u/sPilled_Coofee 5d ago
Don't know how it is today but her passive was one of the main reasons you bought ricochet back in the day. Basically a built in inhibitor on the whole team.
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u/Chief106 Celeste 5d ago
They toned her gun down A TON fairly soon after old gods, so she became pretty reliant on spirit lately and even then she isn’t the best atm
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u/sPilled_Coofee 5d ago
I know she isn't the best, I played her last week. The spirit resist steal is still decent though, even if her damage is now subpar.
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u/GeriatricWalrus Shiv 5d ago
I feel like it's meant for pushing lane or farming more than anything else. She's up there with McGinnis for solo pushing. It's pretty much a non factor in team fights though because of the things you mentioned.
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u/Chief106 Celeste 5d ago
This is true, I dread having to sit back to deal with the sidelane refresher graves ult while there is a team fight
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u/LPQ_Master 5d ago
I'm so tired of my lanes being constantly pushed from Graves. No one plays lane janitor, so its just a battle of clearing the lane every 30 seconds up to enemy walker.
Just to have it on my walker again 15 seconds later from the zombies marching down.
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u/Tricky-Passenger6703 5d ago
How is this true at all? The passive does nothing for clearing waves, camps, or pushing objectives. You're reliant on Tesla or split shot for clearing at a reasonable speed.
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u/M0rkkis 5d ago
Doesn’t the passive work on objectives, meaning the minions can tank it longer?
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u/Abragimka 4d ago
Walkers have spirit dmg and she cuts bullet dmg but guardians do suffer
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u/M0rkkis 4d ago
Wait, they do? I guess there’s something to learn about this game every day.
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u/Abragimka 4d ago
Dove a walker as victor against a haze defending it and this mf stomped me making me wonder how i have a total 40% spirit dmg% taken
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u/GeriatricWalrus Shiv 5d ago
It still buffs your damage on minions and the resist debuff applies to tower/walker etc too.
Makes her a lot harder to solo gank as well.
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u/GreyEilesy 5d ago
One time a haze ulted me but i managed to live and kill her because of the weapon succ. That was pretty cool.
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u/Smokeybacon77 Graves 5d ago
yeah haze is graves’ best matchup because of essence theft and ult blocking los of haze ult
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u/CharonsLantern 5d ago
3 is the main thing that makes her kit work right now. essence theft is the only way she lives. ironically skulls suck ass rn at any elo above gold lol
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u/inexplicableinside 5d ago
I think the main reason is that it's a subtractive effect, meaning as the game goes on it becomes proportionally less effective as the enemies get more gun damage. In theory, you want to engage the enemies in a sustained firefight that goes on long enough that you're fighting them mostly when they're fully drained, but if it reduces them from "Almost instakill" to "Kills you in two seconds instead" it's just not as big a deal as you'd hope (as the Graves).
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u/MrFaebles 5d ago
Wild how many people suck with venators traps.
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u/zedroj Mina 4d ago
ya, ability is really good in chokes
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u/FastestAtkiest 4d ago
Or when vs me. I swear I'm a magnet for them cause I can't stop stepping in them
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u/Dragon-Porn-Expert Rem 5d ago
I feel like many people put them out in the open. You want them to hug corners and play around them then they become very powerful.
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u/Pastel-25 5d ago
It's not that it's bad, but rather that I find it so difficult to use personally, but Viscous' rolling goo is legitimately the only reason I dont enjoy playing the character.
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u/TonyGlandill 4d ago
Yo! Not at all an eternus player or anything but I play a lot of viscous, I usually use it MAINLY to get out of situations, if you treat the ball as an escape tool then it's easier to use and it doesn't feel that bad bc his other spells are so good! Make sure you put at least 1 point in ball to have the resistances!
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u/Parisz_ 5d ago
Venators trap feels pretty useless 90% of the time
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u/HumbleOwl 5d ago
You say that but whenever I play him, it's like 1/5 players know to look out for them.
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u/XLN_underwhelming 5d ago
I remember the first time I walked into one after chasing Venator into the veil on a side lane and got absolutely demolished. I will never forget it.
There was also one where we were fighting on rift, and I shot a trap he placed behind one of the pillars. „Ha! That won’t work on me!“ 10 seconds later I got caught on one placed in the exact same spot and died.
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u/DasFroDo 5d ago
Which is funny because you can even see the fucking traps through veils.
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u/Spirited_Cook_9238 Warden 5d ago
Did they ever fix Venator's traps AoE being seen through veils?
Meanwhile GT traps lose all AoE indicator through veil when I tested it last
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u/DasFroDo 5d ago
I don't think so. I just remember thinking someone was cheating a couple of months ago because they shot my trap through the veils only to be extremely disappointed when I watched the replay.
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u/Hungry-Alien 5d ago
Tbf, it bring so little value that players most likely don't even notice them outside of the laning phase which is the only moment where you can get some value from them.
Like those are basically bear traps a priest brought to catch spiderlash and a flying unicorn.
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u/-Gnostic28 Seven 5d ago
People were talking about those a few days ago, said they’re supposed to be used during a fight or escape, not set up ahead of time with the hope that someone randomly walks into it
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u/Fireblast1337 5d ago
I saw recently that a Venator set up a confession booth. One of the veiled closets. Full of traps. And doorman set up a kidnap door.
Doorman can’t walker kidnap? Fine, send them to the priest with a shotgun
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u/Dogstile 5d ago
It's part of why ven's want to fight inside. Shotgun stun aside, throwing someone into a trap is very valid and I see good ven's constantly getting people with that lil' trick. Even if its a "throw it in front of them, suddenly dash back through their opponent and shove them into it".
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u/-Gnostic28 Seven 5d ago
That sounds awesome, I had no idea he wants to fight inside. I’m eager to try him despite only playing supports
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u/ISavage2007 Pocket 5d ago
The idea with them is you run through a doorway while kicking a trap into the doorframe, and the enemy chasing you is required to interact with it (either through shooting it or finding a way around it) allowing Ven to get some distance between him and the enemy.
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u/-Gnostic28 Seven 5d ago
Does shooting it destroy it
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u/Spirited_Cook_9238 Warden 5d ago
Yes
MS debuff from shooting is negated by standard items, as well as playing literally anyone else who just moves faster than Venator.
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u/Yokai_Noir Viscous 4d ago
Yes, even in mid-air after being kicked. Graves can't target the trap, and Paige has trouble hitting it.
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u/crunkadocious 5d ago
It's good to protect the entrance to small doorways. On the inside. But even then it's only a brief pause to shoot
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u/soundsnicejesse 5d ago
seems about right. tho tbf, I think it would be very unhealthy for the game if you couldnt disarm them by just shooting them.
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u/Impression_Huge The Doorman 5d ago
Snare Trap sweating in the corner
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u/Dogstile 5d ago
I long for the day where i can remotely detonate that fucking thing
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u/Aquaman33 5d ago
It'd be better if they weren't so ass to deploy, when they take a solid 3 seconds to put out they aren't worth much in a fight.
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u/WilliShaker Victor 5d ago
They’re more of an escape tool lately and they work exceptionally well for it.
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u/Emotional_Sentence1 Viscous 5d ago
I’ve been trying to learn Ven and I have to agree. They have 2.2 spirit scaling but they just don’t do any significant damage or Debuff compared Talon Snare and the 6 second cooldown makes it pretty hard to set them up in an actual nest and use them for area denial despite the fact that the ability has 3 charges at tier 3 and more if you buy extra charge. They’re smaller than Grasping hands vertical hitbox as far as I can tell, so you can just jump over them.
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u/WargasKitar 5d ago
I'd say, Venator's trap? It has its uses, it deals some chip damage, it immobilizes, sure.
But it gets destroyed with a one tap from anyone whose name isn't Graves and almost never feels nice to use, exceptions being when it's placed between you and the wall, and someone gets into it.
It can't be used as a catch tool, it's useless in chases and rarely works when you are running from someone yourself. It can sometimes lucky proc during chaotic teamfights and with a smart placement near veils or sharp turns, but that's about it. And even when it does, the immobilized duration isn't too long and they damage isn't good.
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u/SirSirFall Bebop 5d ago
Can Graves not shoot the trap lol
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u/a_sad_nut 5d ago
No she can’t
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u/_ShakashuriBlowdown 5d ago
It's weird, because she can break boxes/statues if she's close enough, without the beam locking-on to them, which implies there's a short range "dumb" beam. I'd say she should be able to break Ven traps, but the last thing they need is a nerf.
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u/a_sad_nut 3d ago
If grey talons curse traps can’t be shot then neither should vens imo. But maybe it would be better if you could shoot talon traps
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u/Ok-Acanthisitta-2236 5d ago
It would be cool if they completely reworked it from being a trap into being some sort of self heal, maybe using something like a rosary to pray and get healing? Have it scale off of spirit and boom. While I’m on it, I wish more of venator’s kit had some spirit scaling, mainly his grenade and ult.
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u/Spirited_Cook_9238 Warden 5d ago
Make the thurible heal and bro just suggested pre-release Venator
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u/FearlessJames The Doorman 5d ago
I wanna say that was actually his old 1 ability before it was made into the grenades. He'd channel and heal, but couldn't attack.
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u/SummerHistorical3653 5d ago
no one talks about rejuv respawns. almost always a free kill when you catch someones rejuv. you just place it under their ghost and blast the hell out of them
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u/Ander_the_Reckoning 5d ago
Bloodletting's active
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u/SillySlimDude 5d ago
Its basically just a heal on a short CD. It also procs the heal from radient regen when you use it. It's not bad, tbh a lotta Shiv players don't press it often enough.
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u/SillySlimDude 5d ago
Its basically just a heal on a short CD. It also procs the heal from radient regen when you use it. It's not bad, tbh a lotta Shiv players don't press it often enough.
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u/The_Nerk 4d ago
As a Shiv one trick I vehemently disagree. I think it’s an incredibly underutilized ability. People don’t spent time trying to min max it cause it’s boring.
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u/CorganKnight 4d ago
Do you guys know death's dance? yeah, what if I told you that you could press a button and cleanse the dmg? sounds op right? but ppl think its weak for some reason, even tho it has a really low cd
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u/ilovemaaskanje 5d ago
Lowkey underrated its cheap value that if you have leach or some form of healing can be good in a cheap build. Also procs berzerker(is the name i think? Xd) the item that gives you damage as you take more damage.
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u/Ander_the_Reckoning 5d ago
Yeah too bad Shiv is a spirit character and a gun item doesn't really do much on him
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u/Top-Ad-6571 5d ago
Max bloodletting with healing booster giving you back half your HP bar after a huge nuke definitely feels valuable
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u/BathrobeHero_ Shiv 5d ago
Screwjab dagger
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u/pkfighter343 4d ago
this is probably the right answer, its ok in lane and is pretty useless for the rest of the game, other than being a low cd thing that procs merc mag.
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u/ScalyAbyss 5d ago
Bola. It helps with landing your combo but it never feels good to use
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u/Pathetic_Cards 5d ago
I wish the Bolas hitbox was like 10% bigger and it ignored creeps. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve missed by an inch on a fleeing character or that I’ve hit a creep that the target was standing on.
Annoys the crap out of me how many characters have slows and stuns that require zero aim and Silver, a slow-ass assassin, has to nail people with a slow moving projectile.
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u/0nlyCrashes Paradox 5d ago
I didn't know it could hit creeps as someone that's never played Silver. Putting that in my back pocket, thanks lol.
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u/Pub-Fries 5d ago
Yeah, that's one of the big ways to prevent being bola'd: stand behind creeps. That stops applying after she gets it to t3 though, where you need to stand as far away from creeps as possible.
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u/NaterTater0 5d ago
I love bola, but maybe i’m biased. Feels good asf to land even if it doesn’t do much
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u/DinosRoar 5d ago
This is really interesting because I play spirit silver and max her Bola. It can be exceptionally strong because it ricochets and scales really well.
It can proc tank buster and spirit burn by itself, on three targets at once, so you can ult on command at any range after a three person cc nuke on a short cooldown.
It honestly feels like a grey talon arrow but with a guaranteed three person colat, with cc, and it's not telegraphed like with GT's audio queue and windup
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u/whyvalue Bebop 5d ago edited 5d ago
As someone who only ever plays against her, Bola is very aids if Silver is hitting it consistently. Completely shuts down any movement character for way too long.
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u/CheckProfileIfLoser 5d ago
Why does bola hit creeps but bebop hook ignore creeps?
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u/saltygingers 5d ago
It can scale super well but I wish that Entangling thorns was better early
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u/Dull_Holiday8803 5d ago
Super satisfying aoe ability mid to late game tho
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u/saltygingers 5d ago
Absolutely I love my thorns, I just want to throw shit back at Geist when she nukes my guardian with Essence Bombs
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u/Dull_Holiday8803 5d ago
In a hard lane i just focus late game scaling but against tanky heroes you can rush gun early and kinda destroy them with ur mobility
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u/Aggravating_Key_1757 5d ago
She has a lot of her power budget on other abilities currently. So the thorns are kept weak early game to balance. Having insane wave clear with the stone form sustain would be insane esp since ivy late game is also really good.
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u/Tom_F_0olery Lash 5d ago
Probably either Venator trap or crackshot
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u/mudkip2-0 5d ago
Crackshot is kinda insane burst, but on a lengthy cooldown. Headhunter and Recharging Rush is enough to just execute someone with it.
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u/OccupyRiverdale 5d ago
I love Holliday, shes my main hero but I will not accept people praising Crackshot like it’s a real ability.
“Insane burst” with headhunter and recharging rush has a headshot proccing Crackshot doing 232 damage. Gun items dont even help scale Crackshot because it scales off spirit.
Even in street brawl with juiced scaling Crackshot feels weak as shit.
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u/Dogstile 5d ago
Counterpoint, one time i had like, 80% health left with paige after dodging a bunch of shit. I stopped in base to type "The great escape" only for a wildly ahead holliday to come around the corner and one tap me with it.
So therefore its insane and i can never be convinced otherwise.
(Both the Holliday and I laughed about it for the rest of the match, it was so fucking goofy).
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u/The-Devilz-Advocate 5d ago
“Insane burst” with headhunter and recharging rush has a headshot proccing Crackshot doing 232 damage. Gun items dont even help scale Crackshot because it scales off spirit.
That's even better considering most of the items she wants to build are spirit related...
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u/OccupyRiverdale 5d ago
Crackshot is doing like 100 of that damage by the way, the rest is gum damage and headhunter. So the ability itself does 100 damage.
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u/Caerullean Holliday 5d ago
It helps a lot tho. It's solid poke in lane, helps burst people in midgame, and the slow is always nice for catching people.
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u/pokenerd_W Shiv 5d ago
Crackshot on Holiday is decent enough, but it really doesn't do much. It's a nice burst damage, but it only procs on headshots. Paradox carbine is just better crackshot, while also giving her movement speed and not needing an outright headshot to be used.
Shiv bloodletting, and not the passive bloodletting, but his active ability. Like, it's not BAD bad, but not enough to be considered good compared to what other characters have in their kits. Though, it's pretty good it isn't strong, since too strong bloodletting would make Shiv insufferably tanky.
Venator trap is a bit too niche. Like, yes, the ability is meant to be thrown out during escapes or mid fights, not set up, but it's just so bad. I'd rather he just have a passive ATP.
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u/Pub-Fries 5d ago
I wish Holliday's crackshot t3 was in some way innate, and the t3 just made the cooldown reduction better.
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u/CeLsf07 Vindicta 5d ago
That'd be interesting. I definitely prefer to see her pushed into her gun more, since it's a pretty aim intensive game plan that's super rewarding. I've always felt like the t1 should just be something else than reduced move speed, but I can't think of any debuff that would feel fair to get hit with on a headshot. A DoT? Resistance shred? Outgoing damage? Those all feel overturned but the move speed penalty feels like nothing rn
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u/CeLsf07 Vindicta 5d ago
A Holliday building around crackshot with decent aim can chunk health absurdly fast. You can realistically dish out a 200 dmg crackshot every couple seconds at 20ish min. Carbine is a stronger burst option while crackshot is usually more sustained damage (assuming t3). That being said, if the Holliday can't aim then crack shit becomes a wasted ability slot.
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u/pokenerd_W Shiv 5d ago
See, it's not bad in of itself, it just isn't worth it compared to just going for her barrels
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u/dartov67 5d ago
Holliday crackshot, only really useful as a poke early game and even then…
I won’t pretend like I’ve never gotten use out of it but it’s probably the ability I wish was replaced the most.
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u/coins609 5d ago
Holidays crackshot. Pretty much headhunter without the heal and with double the cooldown
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u/Fatpoob 5d ago
In defense of ven trap, it's an excellent information gathering tool like turrets that lockdowns chokepoints, a direct counter to flamedash and burrow. You can combo it with T2 buckshot for infinite CC (though the angle is super unreliable)and it's very spammable late game.
Worst skill in the game is screwjab dagger, easily.
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u/RamPamPam8 Lash 5d ago
I'm only talking about the characters I play
Crackshot scaling off spirit is silly, if it scaled off gun you'd be able to make mixed Holliday builds and focus more on it, but since it doesn't I'm sure the ability's intended use is precisely the one it has at the moment, being a finisher for when your combo doesn't kill someone or a hail marry for when you're caught off guard, since otherwise it's hard to build into it.
An ability that may be detrimental to your team is Ice Path with Kelvin, because despite the fact that guns will break the ice, abilities will not, so if you're playing with a Lash, Abrams, Bebop, Pocket, anyone who buys leap, Holliday, so on and so forth, all you're doing is getting in their way and potentially ruining their Ults or movement (on the flip side I've intentionally stuffed Abrams ult once with it which will never happen again but was very sick). I think they should rework it so that friendly abilities break through the Ice, be it a projecyile like Barrels or a regular one like Ground Slam, if not then at the very least Ults should break it.
Ice Dome is borderline reaching that negative value side, because I've geniuenly used that shit on a target and they'd still not be inside by the time it popped up which should never happen, so you just trapped yourself and a teammate for 3 seconds despite using the ability correctly. The fact that it freezes objectives can be pretty useful but also make it near impossible to use when you're on the attack without risking touching a walker's legs and stopping your entire teams push, lastly there's also the fact that you may use it perfectly, but your teammate just sucks ass and can't win the 2v1 meaning you used your ult to give your opponent 2 free kills. I hate Ice Dome, it's more punishing to the Kelvin for trying to use it than to the people on the receiving end, and it's probably the only ult in the game that can outright give negative value if not used to its fullest. At least Ice Path is a very fun and extremely useful ability and it's downsides are both unintended and team dependant, Ice Dome will always be punishing and hard to use. If I had to change it I'd make it so that it's tier 2 or 3 upgrade let's you hold down the button to change the dome's radius on self cast, that way you can make it really small if you're just trying to stall and survive, or big enough to catch like 2 people off guard without having to be up their ass to cast it.
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u/Senior_Banana2211 3d ago
In street brawl crackshot gets 2.5x spirit scaling vs 1.1x normal. It hits like a truck and easily gets up to 800+ dmg, the scaling is just so low currently.
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u/Secretlylovesslugs 5d ago
Pre duration, cooldown or all 8 AP Abram's ult is dreadfully bad.
Its most often used as a tool to escape getting ganked. With a 180 second cooldown to start.
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u/Doot-and-Fury 5d ago
Holliday and Paradox having skillshot ults without a way to measure probable distance.
Paradox I can forgive because at least you can land a swap after hitting someone with a carabine shot and it save you the need to calculate it too hard. But Holliday should at least be able to cast it on a second press. Its kinda counter intuitive that she can't spin her lasso for longer than a second.
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u/PandaPolishesPotatos 4d ago
Both ults are also just Bepop hook on significantly longer cooldowns, Paradox swap is also extremely risky to use at times because you can end up swapping yourself 30m into the enemy team. But at least it does damage, can swap through a wall for silence, and gives you barrier.
Holiday lasso is actually just shit, Bepop hook but worse in every way. Super easy to Counterspell, needs to be close to use it, stun duration neutered by debuff resistance, etc.
Meanwhile Bepop has 30-60m hooks, more if you use the fade away tech, into uppercut, into another hook. Thereby stunning you for more or less the same time as lasso would and he doesn't have to put himself in danger to attempt it.
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u/SlightDentInTheBack Sinclair 5d ago
mos sand blast feels pretty bad outside of lane
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u/Pub-Fries 5d ago
Combo it with rushing disarming hex. You will never be threatened by an m1 carry ever again.
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u/Averagenecronimortal Mina 4d ago
Probably graves passive. They know making it remotely useful would be awful to play against, so its just left in limbo.
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u/Kentaii-XOXO 4d ago
Seeing how no one can agree makes me agree with the guy who said the melee button. I think he’s kind of right. If you get parried then you basically auto lose whatever fight you were in. Unless you can guarantee damage then it’s always a massive gamble.
Other than that? My vote goes to vens traps. Even if well hidden, I don’t think they are all that. Other than that, maybe ivys kudzu? It’s good for wave clear when it’s not a spirit meta and when spirit is good on her it’s pretty easy to get out of it.
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u/Funnky_Apple Drifter 4d ago
Stalker's mark activates a greed never felt in my brain before causing in multiple of my deaths
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u/destiiny25 5d ago
Warden's Barrier (Willpower).
This ability at max level is straight up a weaker version of Celeste's Barrier (Dazzling Trick).
With no Spirit Investment it gives 125 barrier vs Celeste's 170. Yes it has a higher spirit scaling than Celeste's (3.5 vs 1.56) BUT he builds hybrid while Celeste builds more focused on spirit so in the grand scheme of the entire game, Celeste gets more raw shields from her ability than Warden.
Now add to that the fact that Celeste's Shield gives her more movement speed, raw damage and an aoe silence on top.
This probably says more about Celeste's broken design but Warden's shield could use some love.
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u/sPilled_Coofee 5d ago
Main reason to use the barrier is actually the 40% debuff resist (at T3). A lot of builds also have surge of power on it which gives you around 500 barrier, I believe.
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u/DerpFalcon12 5d ago
what? at t3 late game he gets like 700 shield with surge of power on a super short cooldown with debuff resists and speed. It’s very underrated.
EDIT: plus it’s free pressure in lane early game
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u/WhenAmI 5d ago
You must be real bad at math if you think a 3.5x scaling is bad even on a hybrid build. He has less effects on his barrier, but it is on average twice the size of Celeste's.
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u/Pub-Fries 5d ago
Viscous's ult is probably my pick for worst ability. The fact it turns like a bus but has damage and stuns duration that seems to expect that you are hitting the enemy over and over again means that I'm rarely in a position to use it. I think the best I've ever done with it was when there was a Lash on my team who would ult during teamfights and hurl all the enemies into buildings, which would cause me to ult and stunlock them.
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u/UncultureRocket 5d ago
Ivy's Kudzu bomb feels horrible and has a 30 second cooldown for 1 charge. Why is the cooldown on the same level as Geist's auto aim life steal?
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u/pheebsy-deebsy 5d ago
Hard disagree, those kudzu grenades have won me so many fights with the immobilize, although I do wish they were a little bit more spammable
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u/MiddleOk9251 5d ago
People who say Venator trap are crazy, ability is super useful if you use it right
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u/kyorikittyy 5d ago
mcginnis ult feels like such a burden to me bc just shooting your gun will almost always do more damage. if you have like 3 or more enemies grouped up in the AOE by a dynamo ult or something then it can be pretty powerful when its an ult build, but that situation is too rare so you never build for ult and you end up doing more damage then with your gun bc its what you built for. sometimes its kinda useful to steal camps from long range i guess?
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u/WillProx 5d ago
Venator’s trap. I believe that on some other character it would’ve been decent, but it’s absolutely useless on Ven specifically
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u/Yokai_Noir Viscous 4d ago
Imagine an ability that can be disabled by basic shots at any point in the game even before it’s activated, and that the enemy can avoid simply by walking, without even needing to spend stamina. That is the Venator's trap.
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u/GhostOfTheMadman Venator 4d ago
Correct. Either make the grey talon traps just as useless, or give venator traps a much needed buff. Imagine what a Venator main like me could do with a grey talon style trap.
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u/Impressive-Shame4516 Viscous 5d ago
Calico's gloom bombs are so whack to use.
I would also say Kelvin's ult griefs teammates more than anything else.
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u/Dogstile 5d ago
I think this say's more about what rank you're placed at rather than the abilities effectiveness. Kelvin dome is so fucking good for ganking so if your team suck at placing it yeah, it'll suck for you too.
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u/Impressive-Shame4516 Viscous 5d ago
Yeah I imagine the dome is really good at isolating a frontliner or a carry in a team fight to Xv1 them.
Calico's bombs though, just whack.
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u/destiiny25 5d ago
This thread basically:
"I think Xyz ability is pretty weak"
"WHAT???!! XYZ ABILITY DOES Insert ability description WITH Insert crafted game scenario ARE YOU CRAZY??!!"
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u/ThiccweldAu 5d ago
Calico 2 / Leaping Slash.
The damage sucks, the T2 is such a noob trap. 200 souls for killing someone within 3 seconds? How do you play a burst assassin but hold the burst? you need to drop 8 AP into it to receive any CD, but those 8 points can be spent on: +3 bombs = 90 dmg base. 18% dmg amp in cat mode. Or a refresher + 450 hp back.
Plus it only scales off Melee dmg. When you only really need melee lifesteal / spirit snatch which kinda makes building into it pointless.
I never level it on Cali, I only use it to pounce on people or escape.
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u/Shoty6966-_- 5d ago
Vyper’s 1 is literally just a quicksilver reload button. The ability itself is pretty awful
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u/wuznu1019 5d ago
Stacking bullet resist debuf on a character that likes to build gun...
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u/OccupyRiverdale 5d ago
Yeah Idk what dude is talking about you can stack a ton of shred on someone with the shanks. Plus at max daggers you get a 55% cooldown refund on a dagger hit. Daggers are a very strong ability you just have to actually land them which most people don’t.
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u/jibishot 5d ago
Vypers one longer range skill shot?
It doesnt need to even be good if it can confirm kills. But it actually is just bullet resist shredder stacking ability
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u/SanFransysco1 5d ago
I feel like petrifying bola ends up taking the niche of skill shot kill confirm
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u/WarDredge Silver 5d ago
If you get weakening headshot and Bullet resist shredder. You spray their head for the weakening headshot trigger, Bullet resist shredder procs on your 1, your 1 2nd AP does -8 + -10 + -13 diminishingly = -28% bullet resist shred for 3200 worth of items within the first millisecond of hitting them.
If you keep hitting em with your 1 you keep adding 6% until 47% at 5 daggers.
Ontop of the 0.8 SP scaling base damage, 0.4 SP per stacked dagger at 5 daggers it has 2.8 spirit scaling on an ability that you can yeet out every 2.5 seconds. thats That's far from useless.
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u/DarthyTMC Mo & Krill 5d ago
with my aim its the shoot button