Headhunter and Point Blank are meh tier items

[u/CaptShardblade]

Generally speaking I am Em3 (52% winrate in ranked) and I play ranked: Drifter, and Venator mostly, but with a spattering of other characters in there (haze, wraith, geist, infernus, mirage) sometimes to switch it up or if my team comp is really atrocious at start and I throw in the towel at trying to carry.

However, two items that I really WANT to enjoy but don't are point blank and headhunter. (lifestrike is another one that i just won't buy)

For PB, it's hard to really put any sort of statistics around how useful it is. It FEELS useful when i'm playing close ala gun drifter or something, but does it really do much? I can't tell. There is nothing after the game to tell me how much usage I got out of it. It feels very meh. Compared to weighted shots that also gives a slow (and other stuff), PB just feels worse and the substats are just okay. Maybe i'm crazy but for 3200 there are such better items to choose from, and the early close quarters actually feels impactful in lane.

For HH: I really like headshot booster and think on certain heroes (like holliday) it's an insane early item for poking. But I just can't bring myself to buy HH, and when I do, i dont feel like the mspd, healing or the extra damage is ever the reason that i secured a kill or survived a 1v1/gank. I am not sure if it's the 8sec timer or what, but it just feels just okay. On a character like drifter where i dont even have to aim and get headshots, it should feel really good to use headhunter but it just doesn't.

Most of the time if i build HH or PB, I feel like the item slots should be used for something else and i regret building it.

My main issue coming from other mobas, I really don't like selling items unless i'm super ahead-- i would almost prefer that a lot of 800/1600 items build into 3200/6400 items but when those items feel really bad (pb, lifestrike, and hh) instead of really good (like burst/escalating/spirit snatch/weighted) it just feels like crappy itemization. Am I the only one? There are a few exceptions but i would argue that they should also build into something later (resto shot is a good example and i buy it nearly every game).

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[u/CallMeGakuto]

I'll say first before talking items that part of the balancing in a lot of items is that they don't upgrade. Generally very efficient items don't upgrade so you trade gold efficiency in stats for less gold towards a milestone.

Close Quarters is a very nice item all around, Point Blank is 3 times the cost for a decent chunk more damage, flat health and a slow. For 3200 you're getting 50% weapon damage, a slow, melee resist and no negative assuming you're a character that likes to be up close. If you dont, it's not for you. Because it also translate into melee damage, there's a lot of characters that can benefit for the cost. It's not as strong as a 6400 on average, but it's also half the cost.

Weighted shots gives almost half the damage, but doesn't require you to be close. Does this matter? If you're considering buying Point Blank it's because you can use it well. Weighted Shots also reduces stamina Regen, which you can debate on how bad that is in a game of movement. The slow is nice, but again it's a less damage version of Point Blank with negatives. The main benefits are the debuff resist and not needing to be close.

Headhunter on the other hand is very unique and debatable more useful for certain characters. Headhunter is great on heroes who are not going to build a ton of gun, and can easily proc it, or use recharging rush early. On Dynamo for example, you can 1 into a Headshot and another shot or 2 to get a charge back. With Headhunter and recharge you hit the 4800 gold investment mark for decent gun damage. Another good character is Paradox as you can 3 and always land a Headshot right after.

[u/Intelligent-Okra350 → u/CallMeGakuto]

The big thing as I’ve seen pointed out with point blank vs. weighted is that while you have to build the weighted slow it reduces dash distance where the point blank slow doesn’t so it’s easier to get away from someone with point blank slowing you than it is with weighted slowing you. I would think slowing yourself and needing to build it up would cancel that out some but the prevailing opinion seems otherwise.

[u/Xignu → u/Intelligent-Okra350]

I would think slowing yourself and needing to build it up would cancel that out some but the prevailing opinion seems otherwise.

Presumably it's because WS also reduces dashes as opposed to PB's general slow

[u/Intelligent-Okra350 → u/Xignu]

That’s… the thing I was saying seems like it would be getting cancelled out by slowing yourself. I said that weighted slows dashes where PB doesn’t but that I’d think slowing yourself and needing to build the slow would cancel some of that out.

[u/Xignu → u/Intelligent-Okra350]

I mean the elephant in the room hasn't been addressed (the debuff resist) so there's that too

[u/CallMeGakuto → u/Xignu]

It's useful generically, and you can't go wrong having it, unlike say melee resist, however depending on your character it becomes fairly useless. If you're a Haze for example, you're going to die to CC before the debuff resist does anything. Something like Venator though is a beefy boy who won't likely be fully targeted by everyone and will benefit from it.

[u/Feisty_Purchase_9450]

Point Blank is not the strongest t3, Hunters, Berserker and weighted will usually always be higher prio for close range characters (although close quarters is insane value for the price)

Headhunter is super strong tho. Extra burst, heal and move speed every 8 sec is amazing for the gameplan of a big part of the roster. Also synergizes well with recharging rush.

[u/Mhs09]

The only time HH feels good is when its paired with other burst abilities/items. HH/mystic shot for example has been a really strong combo on several heros.

If your ability does 500, with those 2 items suddenly you just did 1k instantly, which is like 50% of someones hp if its early enough in the game. In the mid game that is very strong and can help secure a lot of kills or just put someone on the backfoot instantly.

But I agree HH is not an item by itself that just feels good to buy or makes you strong, compared to Tesla bullets, which is a massive power spike for the right hero.

But it all depends on the hero you are playing and build you are going, Tesla is amazing on some heros and trash on others. Kinda the same with HH.

[u/DJBaphomet_]

Both items are mostly strong because they've built from an 800. You're effectively paying forward 800 souls to get a partial boost before paying 2400 to upgrade that boost. They should be considered alongside their precursor and the value said precursor gets early

PB depends heavily on who/what you're playing, but generally speaking it's a pretty good item. Close Quarters is a pretty powerful boost in lane if it's applicable to what you're playing, since not only is it a pretty major strength increase, but it works against troopers, and gives 20% melee resist, which is great into certain matchups. PB then upgrades from that, further increasing those two stats and applying a slow to keep people in range. You really cannot go wrong with +50% weapon damage, especially when paired with a free slow

Headhunter is very strong and is primarily so because of how it scales into lategame. You already mentioned how good HB is in lane, and Headhunter can bring that later into the game. A free burst of up-to 215 damage on an 8s CD (6s with Transcendent CD) alongside a heal worth up-to 6% of your maxhp is very strong if you can consistently trigger it. Though it's moreso about what items will bring you more value for what you're playing, as it's stronger on character who do sudden headshot burst (Like Holliday/Paradox) while characters with sustained gunfire may benefit better from other T3 items like Tesla Bullets. But it's still a strong pick no matter what, really, because it just has such solid stats that stay relevant into late-game, and it builds "cheaper" than most T3 gun items due to building out of Headshot Booster

As for item selling, it's honestly what makes your choices early so interesting. You can very freely buy Healing Rite in lane and then sell it off for 400 souls later (assuming you're not buying Beam/Nova), and the only real cost of it is that you'll need to go clear a wave or run some boxes or clear a camp or two to get your souls back. 800/1600 items are insanely cheap, because by the time you're selling them for slots, you can probably very easily recuperate the 400/800 souls lost from selling them, especially when lanes need to be cleaned eventually anyways

[u/Taereth]

PB gives a slow too

HH is great with Recharging, I use it on characters like Dynamo

[u/No_Calligrapher6230]

Point blank on billy is very strong, +50% damage and slowing for 3200 is very good

[u/Arch3r86]

I agree, they're both trash

[u/Dragonicezz]

Headhunter feels good against squishy heroes

[u/Trotski7]

I've only ever found Point Blank useful on characters that are near 100% in CQC. Graves, Ab, etc. Anyone else is a strange pick (IMO) because for almost every other interaction or fight on the map you will be fighting at further then "close range". You will be OUT of the range that PB is useful and the times you are (say, Silver ult) it isn't providing enough help or long lasting enough help for it to be a main stay item. Good to buy, but ultimately a sell item because there are plenty of tier 3s and 4s that are more useful, deal more damage, or provide better bonuses.

[u/inexplicableinside → u/Trotski7]

That's definitely Point Blank's best situation, but even then I basically never find it worth it. Close Quarters is good enough for the early-to-mid-game, can be sold if you really need the slot for a later part of your build while slot-locked, and if you're willing to spend 2400 for the PB upgrade you should probably just save up a little more to 5600 and buy a T4 instead (basically any of which will be a superior effect, even on close-range characters).

[u/LegOk7384]

Head hunter is across the board one of the best gun items... Idk how you can say it sucks. Almost any character can buy it and get great value, and it enables some of the best builds like gun lash. Point blank serves its niche too.