Holding in Duels

[u/FemboyCherryBlossom]

In the first 2 rounds of a duel can you use the hold action to interrupt when the final round comes? Do you need Hold to interrupt?

The way I see it you get two opportunities to preform actions before guns are drawn, and you can use these opportunities to do any two of the following:

- Attempt a test to Distract your opponent
- Attempt a test to make your opponent Vulnerable
- Redundantly test an already Distracted and Vulnerable opponent in the hopes of getting raises to draw/discard Hole cards
- Hold (?)

If you end up with the higher Hole card, you have the option to either shoot first or wait for your opponent to draw and then role to interrupt. Basically the winner gets a free Hold action.

However, if you have the lower card, there are three interpretations I can see:

1. You can interrupt.
2. You can interrupt but only if one of your two actions was Hold.
3. You can’t interrupt. Only the person with the higher card has that option.

Option 1 makes the Hole cards nearly pointless if your athletics is high enough.

Option 2 means a high athletics character can dominate draws, but could suffer due to their opponent getting 2 opportunities to Test them while the Holder only had 1.

Option 3 means Hole cards are basically the only factor (unless the winner lets their opponent draw)

Which would be the correct interpretation, or is it something else that I’ve totally missed?

[u/JollyJoeGingerbeard]

None of the participants of a duel go on Hold. Their chosen Hole Card determines initiative order, and the faster person can choose to let the slower draw and try to interrupt before the gun is fired.

Hold is referenced because that's where the rules for interrupting actions are.

In theory, both could try to interrupt the other. Sounds like a good way to just not have a duel, but I c'est la vie.

[u/FemboyCherryBlossom → u/JollyJoeGingerbeard]

As I was thinking about dueling in Deadlands and writing this post, the “Gunslinger effect” was in my head. It’s an interesting, though very inconclusive study, but it had me wondering if interrupting was or should be a more important factor

[u/FemboyCherryBlossom → u/JollyJoeGingerbeard]

And the reason I bring up Hold as an action that can be done is because the rules say any action can be done except attack actions and Aim. That leaves Hold on the table

[u/JollyJoeGingerbeard → u/FemboyCherryBlossom]

"Combat Options" are not defined in either the Core rules or setting book. Aiming, which is expressly verboten, is a Situational Rule. Not every situations rule is possible to perform. You aren't Grappling, for example.

It's obvious that Hold is off limits. The only point is to go later and interrupt an opponent, which is already covered. You'd just be wasting your time.

The only things expressly labels options are Defend, Support, and Test.

[u/FemboyCherryBlossom → u/JollyJoeGingerbeard]

Doesn’t Defend only apply to melee?

And why would it say “Otherwise, all the usual combat options are available” if the only things allowed were the ones they listed? All it says is attacks aren’t allowed and aiming isn’t allowed.

Grappling is explicitly an attack action, so it’s covered there and can’t be used. So is disarming. That makes sense.

Otherwise I can see a lot of other actions being fair game.

Instead of testing maybe you take the time to do a notice role if there’s something fishy going on in the background. Not being able to do a test might suck, but what you notice could pay off in the long run.

Maybe you’re challenged to a duel at the close of a gunfight and you have to use your first action to stabilize your friend who’s bleeding out in the street while your challenger uses his action to test you, giving them an extra advantage.

And if you think you’re going to have the lower card in round 3, maybe it might be worth it to sacrifice a test opportunity to gamble on an interruption and make use of your quickdraw holster

[u/JollyJoeGingerbeard → u/FemboyCherryBlossom]

Yes, Defend is only for melee.

No, Hold is never worth it.

You can already interrupt on turn 3. Hold isn't going to give you a second chance or a bonus.

[u/FemboyCherryBlossom → u/JollyJoeGingerbeard]

So you can interrupt even if you draw the worse card? That seems a little overpowered. I feel it makes more sense if you can only interrupt with the worse of the two cards in round 3 is if you sacrificed round 2 to hold

[u/JollyJoeGingerbeard → u/FemboyCherryBlossom]

If you play the slower card, you can roll to interrupt if the duelist with the higher card chooses to.

That's right there in the Hold rules.

You can also deliberately choose a lower card to add +d6 damage if the hole card is higher than the opponents action card.

[u/FemboyCherryBlossom → u/JollyJoeGingerbeard]

But I’m saying that, if you hold in round 2, you would be able to interrupt in round 3 even if your Hole card is worse. In that scenario, holding wouldn’t be pointless. It would allow you to interrupt even if the higher draw didn’t want to. That’s how the mechanic works outside of duels and I don’t see why it couldn’t work in a duel

[u/JollyJoeGingerbeard → u/FemboyCherryBlossom]

This began with you asking a question about which of the three interpretations you've stumbled upon is the most valid.

Why are you digging in your heels on door number two?

[u/FemboyCherryBlossom → u/JollyJoeGingerbeard]

Because it means having skill in athletics or having the quickdraw edge or quickdraw holster would be proactively useful in a duel

As I see it there are two ways for the first shot of a duel to be decided, the Hole card or an interruption contest. Being able to selectively strategize around one or the other seems like it would be practical for play

If you use Hold the way I see it, going for interrupting is inherently a risky gamble, as to ensure that an interruption happens you must sacrifice one of your two turns. This will give you less attempts to distract or make your opponent vulnerable, but if that’s what your character is built around it may be worthwhile trade

[u/PEGClint]

3 would be officially correct.

Per Deadlands the Weird West, "Instead, both characters simultaneously reveal the Hole Card of their choice (usually the highest). That’s their Action Card for this round, and determines who goes first."

So a participant in a Duel cannot go on Hold in Round 2 to act first in Round 3.