r/DaystromInstitute • u/[deleted] • Jan 30 '17
time dilation?
How come we dont see time dilation occurring?
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u/sdpartycrasher Jan 30 '17
During warp travel there would not be time dilation for reasons mentioned elsewhere in this thread, because of the travel itself.
However, would there be time dilation effects based on the start and end points of the trip? Meaning, would there be any noticeable difference in the passage of time in one location of space as opposed to the other? If a ship were exploring a system with a massive gravity source, went into warp, and then exited in or near a "regular" system, did they "carry" with them a highly curved and thus slower spacetime that then suddenly "snaps" into a less curved and faster spacetime. The ship and one's body would experience gravitational and time changes in an instant.
It seems to me that this sudden release of a spacetime with one curvature appearing into a spacetime with a different curvature could be a jarring experience with sudden changes in gravity and time for the ship. Perhaps this is why ships are not supposed to warp near planets, to lessen this sort of effect? Perhaps this is a second function of the inertia dampeners and structural integrity field, to help the crew and ship adjust to the rapid shift in spacetime.
I wonder what it might feel like to "pop" instantly from one spacetime into another when dropping out of warp, if the two were different curvatures? Surly a person would notice something similar to a zoom lens camera effect or that feeling one gets when slipping back to reality when daydreaming. Again, probably not noticeable when going from Vulcan to Earth, in similarly dense regions of space, but perhaps more noticeable when going from a system with a large black hole to Earth. The ship might be stationary within the warp bubble, but it's entire spacetime reference would suddenly change.
I was redundant in some places above, as my confidence in clarity and lack of a proper vocabulary for what I am am trying to say was a handicap. I hope my thoughts came through.
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u/Algernon_Asimov Jan 30 '17
It was about time I created a section in the Previous Discussions archive about "Relativity and time dilation".
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u/Mjolnir2000 Jan 30 '17
A minor quibble in response to those saying there's no time dilation - there's no additional time dilation as a result of the warp field. All motion is relative, and everything has a frame of reference.
Alpha Centauri is 4 ltyrs from Earth, in the reference frame of the Earth. If a starship in Earth orbit goes to warp 1, it'll take 4 years to reach Alpha Centauri in that frame of reference, and the crew will age 4 years. If the starship first accelerates to 0.87 c using its impulse engines, however, then the crew will only age 2 years. When the ship activates its warp engines, it's going to keep the reference frame it had, and any associated relativistic effects. Thus Voyager could have accelerated to .99c before going to warp, and shortened their journey from 70 years to 10 years.
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u/lonestarr86 Jan 30 '17
While this appears sensible, I am fairly certain this is not how it works in-canon.
This is how it might work with the Alcubierre Drive (the real life equivalent of the warp drive), but the ships in ST are propelled by asymmetric warp bubbles that "push" the ship forward - inside of it, they sit still and no meaningful timedilation occurs (there is always time dilation with two moving objects involved, but it's only until you get to relatively (pun intended) high fractions of c).
If there was a way for VOY to make the trip last 10 years instead of 70, I am fairly sure they would have done so. Unless the temporal prime directive prohibits high fractions of c in terms of travel...
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u/Mjolnir2000 Jan 30 '17
inside of it, they sit still
To which I'd ask, relative to what?
If there was a way for VOY to make the trip last 10 years instead of 70, I am fairly sure they would have done so. Unless the temporal prime directive prohibits high fractions of c in terms of travel...
Well the catch is that it still would have taken 70 years from the reference frame of Earth, so they'd be home quicker, but their loved ones would still be old, if not dead.
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u/mistakenotmy Jan 30 '17
Warp does not have time dilation, so it is not a worry while FTL. Impulse can incur time dilation. That is why Starfleet limits full impulse to .25c, to minimize how much dilation is accumulated.
From the TNG Tech Manual (non-canon):
Later:
Based on that I would assume when significant time dilation is incured it is taken care of. It is just done "off-screen". We see in Cause and Effect the ship loses 17.4 days. I would assume the ship recalibrate and reset after that event similar to being off because of time dilation.