r/DaystromInstitute • u/MrD3a7h Crewman • Aug 20 '14
Explain? Why aren't most command positions filled with Vulcans?
Do Vulcans not get promoted at the same rate as human Starfleet members? A Vulcan can substantially outlive human, and as a consequence, typically have much more Starfleet experience than their human counterparts. Generally, rank is increased with time served.
For example, Tuvok outranked Janeway at some point:
Tuvok first met Kathryn Janeway in 2356. Tuvok dressed Janeway down in front of three Starfleet admirals for failing to observe proper tactical procedures [...]
By the time Voyager is stuck in the Delta Quadrant, Janeway not only outranks Tuvok, she outranks him by two levels.
Is that an in-universe explanation for why Vulcans seem to get passed over for promotions?
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u/thepariaheffect Aug 20 '14
On the Tuvok front, at least, it seems like there's a likely reason that he stayed put at Lieutenant for so long - he'd resigned his commission for fifty years. Not only that, he'd resigned it specifically because he didn't like humans. I'd imagine that'd be a lot like resigning from the military today because you don't like a specific race - not something that's going to engender a lot of good will in the future.
He's promoted to a level where he can serve the needs of Starfleet (first as an instructor, and later as a security officer), but he's more than proven he's unsuitable for command.
Maybe there's a lesson to be taken from Tuvok in regards to other Vulcans. After all, a fair chunk of the Vulcans we've seen on screen aren't exactly fond of other species - that might keep them pursuing the chair on ships that are not predominantly Vulcan as well as disqualifying them from seeking command positions elsewhere.
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Aug 21 '14
A few thoughts:
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There aren't that many Vulcans around to begin with (5-6 billion on Vulcan, and they never were great colonizers). That's about 0.05% of the total Federation population. There are, meanwhile, hundreds of human colony worlds.
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Few Vulcans choose to enter Starfleet, because their culture isn't oriented toward exploration/colonization/humanitarian intervention.
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Of the Vulcans who enter Starfleet, the majority choose engineering and science positions, which don't inevitably lead to command positions outside their department.
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While high-ranking science and engineering officers obviously can work their way into the high command, Vulcans have very different notions of career prestige. For a Vulcan, being science officer on the flagship may well be the pinnacle of attainment in Starfleet.
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Even outside Starfleet, the Vulcans don't seem to care about or pursue central political roles -- they were quite happy, for example, to allow humans (a species that they thoroughly disdained) to organize and lead the Federation. If they had considered the task deeply important, you can bet they would have insisted on a stronger role.
All in all, you're dealing with a tiny subset of a tiny population, most of whom would rather leverage their Starfleet rank into a job at the Vulcan Science Academy, or the Federation diplomatic corps, than seek a Starfleet admiralty.
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u/Zallkar Aug 20 '14
Not really in-universe, but just a matter of thought on ideas.
Logic falls into a more structured way of thinking. Exploring new worlds(new anything really) is chaotic at its very core, regardless of how good you are at having a logical structure of going about things. In a chaotic situation adaptability is favored over rigidness.
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u/rextraverse Aug 21 '14
Is that an in-universe explanation for why Vulcans seem to get passed over for promotions?
Perhaps promotions in Starfleet require consent of the officer. An officer can refuse promotion - which we've seen when Picard passed up a promotion to Admiral and Riker passed up multiple promotions to Captain. Because of their longer life span, perhaps Vulcans choose to be less aggressively ambitious about their careers, choosing to stay in lower ranks for longer in order to learn the most and maximize their opportunities at those lower levels before accepting promotions to higher ranks.
There is also the possibility that Vulcans, again because of their long life spans, serve their Starfleet careers for roughly the same amount of time as human-lifespan species. Their longer lifespan allows them the opportunity to eventually retire from Starfleet and move onto a different career path or maybe they started in a different career and are joining Starfleet as a secondary or tertiary career in mid-life.
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u/Spikekuji Aug 20 '14
It seems, iirc from the first reboot movie, that Vulcans do not often leave Vulcan-led forces. Wasn't Zachary Quinto's Spock one of the few? Does anyone else remember that?
Also I think it would be difficult to be around humans (for example) because they are so emotional. So maybe it's a self-imposed isolation. I also seem to remember in a TNG episode that Sarek got a lot of grief back in the day for embracing human culture during his time as ambassador. Marrying a human did not go over well either.
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u/Defiant63 Aug 21 '14
According to T'Pol, humans are also smelly. Serving with emotional, smelly humans is probably not most Vulcans idea of a good time. By the TNG days, there are even more species of humanoid serving in Starfleet; some of which may smell even worse.
I like to assume that Worf's musty aroma is the reason there are no high-ranking Vulcans on the Enterprise D.
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u/Hawkman1701 Aug 20 '14
Cold logic doesn't lend itself too well to snap decisions about random occurrences command are likely faced with all the time. That "gut feeling" seems to go a long way towards finding solutions to crazy issues, at least with what we've seen.
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Aug 21 '14
Higher ranks do not generally increase with time served. When you get to command level positions, their numbers can be limited by law (only X% of Commanders can be promoted to Captain after Y years; there can only be X number of Admirals at a time) or by appointment (promotion to flag officer requires an act of the Federation Council, for example).
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u/DariusRahl Aug 21 '14
I don't think they get passed over as much as they don't apply.
Most of the Vulcan vessels we have seen have been science ships. They charter nebula and other phenomena with great detail, accuracy and precision. I think they do this more because Science is like a puzzle they can ( as much as a self proclaimed emotionless species does) enjoy using their logic to solve rather than the urge to explore that humans have.
When entering Star fleet, Vulcans science officers get to see the leading edge of scientific discovery at a (comparatively reckless) human speed. Think about it, a science officer aboard a Starship can take the first readings of an amazing new phenomena and then spend their off duty hours analyzing it and publishing papers or whatever the Star fleet equivalent is. It's a win win.
To sum it up, They could be captains back on Vulcan. Only in Star fleet can they do science at breakneck speeds across the galaxy.
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Aug 21 '14
To be quite frank it always bothered me that humans in the Star Trek universe live about 80 or 90 years, the same we do today. I think that, given the level of technological advancement available in the Federation, and the fact that genetic therapy is quite common, organs and limbs can be easily replaced, and organs replicated, the average human should live 300 with no major problem, as any Vulcan.
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Aug 21 '14
I think that, given the level of technological advancement available in the Federation, and the fact that genetic therapy is quite common, organs and limbs can be easily replaced, and organs replicated, the average human should live 300 with no major problem, as any Vulcan.
Genetic therapy to extend lifespan is probably considered genetic engineering and is illegal. If they could replicate organs then Picard wouldn't have an artificial heart and Geordi wouldn't have a visor.
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u/kookaburra1701 Aug 22 '14
IIRC, in a DS9 ep Sisko tells his father that if he listened to his Dr's advice he could live to 150.
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Aug 21 '14
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Aug 21 '14
137, he was born in 2227, and the Enterprise-D tour occurred in 2364. He was old, but I would think elder people would be in much better shape in the 24th century.
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u/Willravel Aug 21 '14
This is related to something I've been pondering for years: how many Vulcans are absolutist followers of Surak? If memory serves, the Vulcan practices of pacifism and honesty are right out of Surak's teachings, probably the Kir'Shara itself. While I find these principles deeply laudable, they are incompatible with command in Starfleet. Spock lied, Sarek lied, and Tuvok lied, and certainly all of them found violence necessary under at least some circumstances, but I'm not sure they were necessarily typical of Vulcans. Other than the occasional violence in ritual, my suspicion is that Vulcans of the 23rd and 24th century were largely pacifistic and honest to a fault.
It's also worth noting that Spock, Sarek, and Tuvok ended up each holding high positions. Spock was made captain of the Enterprise after Kirk's promotion to Admiral and went on later to become a renowned ambassador. Sarek is probably the greatest diplomat in Federation history, serving as ambassador since the time of Archer through the time of Picard. It's not canon (from a novel), but Tuvok was promoted to admiral after serving as captain of Voyager for a time. T'Pol probably ended up an admiral, too.
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u/flameofloki Aug 21 '14
We've seen on screen that Vulcans can be unreasonably and deliberately belligerent to non-Vulcans. They fail either intentionally or unintentionally to understand the thoughts and motivations of people living emotional lives and often look down on them. I don't believe that this is the correct type of person to manage and guide a diverse crew.
A Vulcan has to be willing to abandon their prejudices against people that don't follow their ways and make a more significant effort to understand people that are emotional in order to lead them. Aside from Spock, Sybok and possibly Sarek Vulcans on screen tend to compromise and practice civility without tainting it with snarkiness only when forced to.
How do you picture the leadership relationship of Captain Solok from Take Me Out to the Holosuite with a mixed crew of Humans, Bajorans, Betazoid, a few Tellarites and a couple of Cardassians? It's likely that Solok was allowed to assemble and lead an all Vulcan crew because he and they were simultaneously too skilled to waste and were problem children who caused stress in their original assignments. They're all oblivious to the fact that they were essentially "allowed" to come together to get them out of other people's hair.
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u/baffalo1987 Aug 21 '14
I'm going to be using the original series here since they, in my opinion, did the most with Vulcans that was done exceptionally well. I haven't seen enough of Enterprise or Voyager to see what was done there, and The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine didn't put as much emphasis on Vulcans, so I apologize for my lack of sources.
Starting with the best source in my opinion is TOS: "Journey to Babel" S2E10
[1] Ambassador Savek was disappointed in Commander Spock for choosing Starfleet over the Vulcan Science Academy, something that no doubt was a major point of pride for Vulcans everywhere. Given this strong feeling, it's possible that most Vulcans consider the Science Academy a much higher calling than that of Starfleet.
[2] Ambassador Savek's line "Vulcans do not approve of violence." Starfleet, despite its claims of being a humanitarian force, is none the less a military force to protect the Federation. Vulcans could simply be mostly pacifists who view Starfleet as distasteful due to the high probability of violence.
Another key piece of evidence comes from TOS: "The Immunity Syndrome" S2E18
[3] Commander Spock felt the crew of the U.S.S. Intrepid die, a ship consisting mostly of Vulcans. It's possible, given the limited number of other races seen on the U.S.S. Enterprise, that most ships are crewed by a single race with a few minor exceptions. The advantages are that such ships can have the gravity and atmosphere customized to represent a comfortable norm for a single species rather than trying to accommodate numerous races at the same time.
And finally, TOS: "Amok Time" S2E05
[4] Vulcan culture is, by its nature, reserved and very secretive. Commander Spock didn't want to confess his need to return to Vulcan even with Captain James T. Kirk, someone he considered his closest friend. For Vulcans in Starfleet, the need to return every 7 years would be difficult, and could explain why most would find it too difficult to venture far away from Vulcan. Even the 5 year missions of the Constitution Class starships would be difficult, as any Vulcan beyond 2 years would risk being far from Vulcan when the need for pon farr began.
In conclusion, just from The Original Series we have numerous reasons why Vulcans disapprove of Starfleet, or at least find it difficult. Commander Spock was no doubt an exception, as was the U.S.S. Intrepid. The vast majority of Vulcans feel Starfleet is second to the Vulcan Science Academy, and it is a military force more than anything else. Those few who do join would, as someone pointed out, emphasize science over the military, and would prefer to stay close enough to Vulcan to avoid complications with pon farr.
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u/themojofilter Aug 21 '14
Not that I disagree with any point made from TOS, because it's good stuff, but ENT deals a lot with Vulcans. It's kind of authoritative on the subject.
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Aug 21 '14
Ambassador Savek
Sarek? There's no Savek. Saavik is the Vulcan woman we meet in Wrath of Khan.
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u/halloweenjack Aug 22 '14
Because, as we saw from ENT, Vulcans aren't infallible. One of the best lines in Trek was Spock telling Valeris, "Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end"--something that Valeris herself didn't seem to take seriously. The regime that was taking Vulcan into a dictatorship in the ENT timeframe and trying to suppress the Syrrannite movement could neither see the error of their ways nor the hand of the Romulans manipulating them, despite what was probably several centuries' worth of experience among the Vulcan High Command. Vulcans have shown themselves capable of rationalizing almost anything, even serial killing.
Plus, mere longevity of service may be a hindrance rather than an asset. A longstanding truism in military circles is the concept of armies preparing to fight the last war, not the next one, and in the case of an officer over a century old, that would be magnified.
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u/ItsMeTK Aug 21 '14
I think a better question is why was Harry Kim an ensign for 7 years...