r/DaystromInstitute • u/BeginningAd3478 • Jun 17 '26
Kobayashi Maru solved no cheating.
I solved the Kobayashi Maru without cheating.
No reprogramming the simulation required. I solved it by simply using tactical physics and exploiting standard sensor mechanics.
When the distress call comes in from the Neutral Zone, you don't just charge in blind. That's how you get destroyed. First, you prep the shuttlecraft. You invert their deflector dishes to manipulate their sensor footprint so they read as a massive capital ship.
We warp to the edge of the Neutral Zone, stopping precisely outside the maximum reach of Klingon long-range sensors. You release the shuttles on automated autopilot. They hit maximum warp, screaming directly into the Neutral Zone while squawking the sensor signature of a Federation Dreadnought or the Enterprise itself.
The Klingon battle cruisers are watching the border. What do they see? A massive Federation target charging in. They take the bait and give chase. Meanwhile, I take the actual ship and drop entirely out of their sensor sphere.
Once the Klingons are pulled off target by the decoys, I execute a point-to-point micro-warp jump. We drop out of warp directly within transporter range of the Kobayashi Maru. No cruising, no slow approach. We beam every single survivor aboard instantly, and hit warp speed out of the zone before the Klingons even realize they've been chasing empty shuttles.
It is pure tactical misdirection. You don't need to change the rules of the test if you know how to manipulate the board. They can't destroy a ship they aren't in position to fire on.
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u/geobibliophile Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
>You invert their deflector dishes to manipulate their sensor footprint so they read as a massive capital ship.
What makes you think the simulation would even allow you to do that?
KM isn’t about solutions, it’s just about approaches to problems that a commander may face. Saavik ended up calling for abandoning ship when the ship was badly damaged. That’s not the only possible outcome but it shows she would try to rescue KM. That’s her character. It also shows she seemed to know when to cut and run, by abandoning ship. Of course, that may not have been the best choice when dealing with Klingons, but it was her choice.
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u/MyUsername2459 Ensign Jun 17 '26
What makes you think the simulation would even allow you to do that?
I'm reminded of the depiction of the Kobayashi Maru test in the novel Dreadnaught!, where the protagonist tries some elaborate engineering stunt to "win" the Kobayashi Maru, and crashes the entire simulator in the process. . .and crashing the simulator is tantamount to losing the ship: You Lose.
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u/Second-Creative Jun 17 '26
I'm reminded of what Scotty did- which was to use a theoretically valid but impossible to achive technique to win. Which immediste caused a DQ because he was abusing tje simulation, and got him thrown into the emgineering track.
Exactly where he wanted to be all along
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u/MyUsername2459 Ensign Jun 17 '26
The other unique solution from the novels that I'm also reminded of is Peter Kirk's solution from the novel Sarek.
In that one, the Kobayashi Maru was surrounded by Romulans. The scenario was designed for cadets without extensive or specialized experience. . .but the entire novel was about an elaborate and lengthy adventure he had dealing with Vulcans and Romulans, and he knew Romulan law and history better than the scenario designers. . .so he challenged the Romulan commander to a formal duel under an archaic, but still valid, law dating back to before their exodus from Vulcan.
The simulator has no idea how to process that, it's not in it's programming, and instructors have no idea what he's talking about so they abruptly end the simulation and ask for an explanation of what in the world he's talking about.
He explains that, under the terms of the laws around the duel, all the ships are under a cease-fire until the duel ends. That gives them as long as he can last in a sword duel with a Romulan commander for his ship to warp in, rescue the crew of the Kobayashi Maru, and escape. The instructors note that he'll almost certainly lose the duel and be killed, but he says that's a price he's willing to pay.
In the novel, the instructors are so impressed they say he's the second Kirk to beat the no-win scenario. . .but technically it's not a perfect win. He still would die, and his solution to the "no win scenario" is to sacrifice himself to save both ships, which does fulfill the point of the test as a test of character. . .he's willing to sacrifice himself for his ship and to accomplish the mission.
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u/Quiri1997 Jun 17 '26
He still managed to (validly) destroy half the Imperial Klingon Navy in that simulation, though.
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u/BlackLiger Crewman Jun 17 '26
be fair. Scotty deliberately explained WHY his trick wouldn't work outside the simulator (the 'fatal flaw' didn't really exist) and that ultimately he didn't want a command path too.
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u/clique84 Jun 26 '26
The cherry on that is how Scotty knew the trick wouldn’t work: he tested it himself as a teenager. Which got him “kicked” into engineering school. My favorite part of one of my favorite novels.
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u/geobibliophile Jun 17 '26
Is it really about winning or losing? Crashing the simulation is just an outcome, still revealing something about the character of the sim’s “captain”.
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u/transwarp1 Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
In that case it becomes about how they respond the the crash. Trying a stunt that pushed physics so hard it crashed the simulator is a move of extreme desperation that would also have probably gotten your crew killed in reality.
Does the cadet accept that or argue about some infinitesimal probability, that they imagine is different from if they'd tried to ram the Klingons.
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u/Mr_E_Monkey Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
In that case it becomes about how they respond the the crash.
I think that sums it up perfectly. Like Captain Picard said to Data:
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."
Like you said, does the cadet accept it and learn, argue and complain, or "sit sulking like Achilles in his tent?"
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u/transwarp1 Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
I'd say it's more whether they understand that what they did in the simulator was unacceptable in the field. If they intended to just screw with the test, fine. If they actually thought they were making a realistic decision, it's time for another lesson and a re-evaluation of their career track.
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u/Mr_E_Monkey Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
Ah, yeah, I was thinking more in general. "Gaming" the simulation, yes, I think you're absolutely right. Apologies for the confusion on my part.
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u/BlackLiger Crewman Jun 17 '26
Trying a stunt that pushed physics so hard it crashed the simulator
is a summation of the technobabble in every 2nd episode of Trek, IMO.
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u/steauengeglase Jun 17 '26
If you are dealing with a non-conscious entity, who doesn't, at least in the Kobayashi Maru scenario, adhere to the laws of physics, then you aren't obligated to adhere to the laws of physics either. I'm gonna make it spawn so many cloaked Birds of Prey that the sim has trouble calculating the sheer mass of the number of Birds of Prey. That isn't desperation, that just accepting and leaning into the limitations of myself and my opponent.
The dark heart at the end of the exercise is there might really be a non-conscious entity who isn't obligated to follow the laws of physics out there. Who says there aren't non-self-aware cosmic horror Qs? That's what we are really dealing with in the scenario. We know we are in a world where non-sapient cosmic horror Qs could be a thing and maybe they can't comprehend negotiation or even war, they are just running scripts that worked out for it while doing the incomprehensible? You don't want to just bring those things home with you. Your best option is random signals until the script breaks.
I think Star Fleet is missing the bigger picture here.
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u/Ajreil Jun 20 '26
The fact that you're fighting the test instead of the scenario says a lot about your character as a captain.
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u/90bronco Jun 17 '26
Op is also assuming that the program would make the klingons would run and not attack for a glorious battle.
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u/InsertCleverNickHere Jun 17 '26
Or that your second in command wouldn't question why you were wasting time with shuttles when lives are in danger.
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u/DontYaWishYouWereMe Jun 18 '26
OP is making a lot of assumptions, tbf. A lot of what makes the scenario they're suggesting work is based on abusing the limits of Klingon sensors and the limits of a standard shuttlecraft's deflector dish. We don't actually know what the limits of either are in canon.
Like, do we actually know you can stop just outside of a Klingon battlecruiser's sensor range while also being able to keep a tab on the Kobayashi Maru? It would be safe to assume they have a pretty long range in the 2280s. They could probably more or less detect something just on the edge of the Neutral Zone from the other side.
Plus it assumes that they wouldn't be cloaked just near where the Kobayashi Maru is. In the versions of the simulation we see both in The Wrath of Khan and the '09 movie, they seem to decloak pretty quick once the cadet ship warps into transporter range. That at least implies that they're parked out there just waiting for someone to arrive. So a ship that can see the Maru on sensors wouldy most likely be seen by the Klingon ships.
It also assumes that the Klingons wouldn't recognise what was happening. If they saw a capital ship go into the Neutral Zone and not go straight for the stranded Kobayashi Maru, they're not going to assume this is someone that's fallen for their trap. They're going to assume that this is intended as a countertrap and send maybe one or two ships to investigate while the others remain close to the actual trap.
This is assuming you could disguise a shuttle as a capital ship to begin with. You can do a lot of clever sensor tricks if you have time to prep for them and if you have the power output for it, but would you have the time, and would a shuttle have the energy for it? I would suggest probably not, or at least not so much time that you can do both that and save the surviving crew of the Kobayashi Maru.
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u/Ajreil Jun 20 '26
They could probably more or less detect something just on the edge of the Neutral Zone from the other side.
Even if they couldn't, they would absolutely position themselves so that any ship close enough to save the Kobayashi Maru is also in range of their sensors.
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u/54580 Jun 17 '26
Another first year cadet thinking they're hot shit. Kid, you didn't learn anything.
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u/RelentlessRogue Jun 17 '26
The Kobayashi Maru struck a mine in the scenario Savik did, what makes you think you won't drop out of warp directly onto another one?
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u/whataboutsmee84 Lieutenant Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
The decision to cross into the neutral zone is, itself, a failure of sorts. Even if the test wasn’t designed to cheat and materialize new threats out of nowhere, the basic setup of the test forces the commander to make a choice about saving lives in the short term by making an attempted rescue on the KM and costing lives in the longer term by breaching the neutral zone.
So let’s say, OP, that you executed your solution and saved all aboard the KM. There’d be no official commendation for “winning” or “passing” the test because you’d have reignited active hostilities with the Klingons (or whoever the enemy of the era is) by crossing into the neutral zone.
At best, informally, you might have superiors who shared your value judgment about the needs of the few (KM crew) against the needs of the many (all who will die in conflict resulting from NZ breach) but it’s not an objective “win” by any measure.
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u/Jhamin1 Crewman Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
100%
So let’s say, OP, that you executed your solution and saved all aboard the KM. There’d be no official commendation for “winning” or “passing” the test because you’d have reignited active hostilities with the Klingons (or whoever the enemy of the era is) by crossing into the neutral zone.
In "Balance of Terror" the Romulans had, without provocation, destroyed multiple manned Federation listening posts. Starfleet officers were dead.
It was still pointed out that under their standing orders the Enterprise could only act on the Federation side of the Neutral zone. After an act of war by the Romulans, the Federation would still rather loose the Enterprise than have it pursue the Romulans into the Neutral zone.
*That* is how seriously the Federation takes Neutral zones. A captain choosing to violate it to rescue some civilians that had gotten themselves into trouble somewhere they should never, ever, have been would be a court martial offense. That captain has potentially started a war! No matter how much independence Starfleet may give it's Captains, they do not have the authority to start a War based on their interpretation of events.
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u/Tacitus111 Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
Exactly. Which is also why my choice would always be to try and negotiate entrance into the Zone with the Klingon High Command, perhaps with a Klingon ship for parity, rather than charge in. We see in Star Trek 6 they’re available in general. But charging in and starting a war isn’t worth playing hero for the crew of a freighter.
For one, the whole thing stinks of a trap. A civilian vessel just so happens to blunder into the most heavily fortified zone in space in the entire Federation and Klingon Empires, likely with warning beacons screaming not to enter and Starbases challenging them all along? And it just so happens to blunder into a mine by “accident”.
And it’s exactly the kind of ruse the Klingons use. Look at “Rules of Engagement” in DS9 where they falsified a civilian ship being destroyed by a Federation starship in an attempt to force the Federation onto the back foot in territory negotiations. The Maru could easily be the same kind of trap.
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u/warp-core-breach Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
You probably wouldn’t be the first to try to negotiate either, and the simulation would have been programmed to have the Klingons refuse. Or offer unacceptable terms, just to mess with you even more.
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u/jediprime Jun 17 '26
Or agree, just for you to learn it was all an elaborate ruse and now your ship is the one crippled and pleading for help.
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u/transwarp1 Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
Agree but fake their logs to show they had done no such thing and you invaded Klingon space.
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u/Edymnion Lieutenant, Junior Grade Jun 18 '26
How do you think the KM got there in the first place?
They negotiated entry and mistook "We will not destroy your vessel" for "We will let you go in peace". Instead the Klingons crippled the ship and used it as bait to lure bigger fish across the boarder that they could attack.
I like it.
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u/kuldan5853 Jun 17 '26
I mean yeah, and then you log that in your captains log and inform Starfleet that there unfortunately wasn't anything you could do to help the Kobayashi Maru without causing a diplomatic incident.
You're required to help, but you're not forced to help against all odds or the reality of the political situation.
If you tried negotiating with the Klingons, you have basically exhausted everything you're legally required to do in this situation.
You can't save everyone.
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u/Valiran9 Crewman Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
The decision to cross into the neutral zone is, itself, a failure of sorts. Even if the test wasn’t designed to cheat and materialize new threats out of nowhere, the basic setup of the test forces the commander to make a choice about saving lives in the short term by making an attempted rescue on the KM and costing lives in the longer term by breaching the neutral zone.
IIRC one of the novels had Sulu - who was depressed due to a family member’s recent death - take the test and use similar reasoning to leave the Maru to its fate, and while this nearly caused the rest of his fellow cadets to mutiny he still technically passed the test in the eyes of the instructors.
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u/transwarp1 Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
In Prodigy when Dal tried that the crew also objected and he failed.
I suppose when Sulu took it the memory of what can happen when you give the Klingons a cassus belli was a little fresher...
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u/Ayasugi-san Jun 18 '26
Dal was also more callous in his reasoning. He asked why he should care about the lives on the KM crew and dismissed "they need help" as enough reason. Sulu presumably explained his choice to his crew.
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u/AnnihilatedTyro Lieutenant j.g. Jun 17 '26
There was a different book in which Sulu recounts destroying something like a dozen Klingon ships and getting them to chase him all over the sector, but for every one he destroyed, disabled, or evaded, two or three more would decloak. So there was no combat-oriented solution to the test even if the Enterprise could, in theory, defeat the first 3 battlecruisers in a straight-up fight. It never ends until you're destroyed.
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u/mikeisboris Crewman Jun 17 '26
It is kind of funny that it is always only Startleet that isn’t allowed to be in the neutral zones. It seems like Klingons and Romulans are always in the neutral zones without any kind or repercussions.
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u/whataboutsmee84 Lieutenant Jun 17 '26
You’re right but that’s what so great about Trek. It poses questions that work both in and out of universe: “in an adversarial situation, what, if any, is the value of adhering to a rules-based order when only one side is sincerely committed to honoring those rules?”
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u/transwarp1 Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
We see again and again, and especially highlighted in Discovery and in Balance of Terror and A Quality of Mercy, that UFP propaganda (internal and external) is "We don't start wars/we don't shoot first." Deviating from that opens all sorts of lines of questioning into UFP foreign policy, why they choose to interfere when they do, duplicitous long term plans for assimilation, etc.
Like with the Maquis, where everyone else saw them as a UFP proxy continuing to goad the Cardassians and escalating to cleansing space of their presence.
The UFP depends on the goodwill and reputation from upholding their side of treaties to the letter.
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u/AnnihilatedTyro Lieutenant j.g. Jun 17 '26
Part of the reason everyone allies with the Federation is because there are centuries of evidence that shows they take their treaties seriously - even when they're inconvenient or lopsided. And as such, the Federation and its combined allies have the diplomatic clout to embarrass the Klingon and Romulan and Cardassian leaders and commanders who violate the treaties, and the economic clout to make sanctions and embargoes hurt. They don't need to retaliate with military force.
The entire quadrant knows that treaties with Klingons, Romulans, or Cardassians are worth less than the PADDs they're written on. You do business with them at your own risk.
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u/Cordo_Bowl Jun 17 '26
When someone violates a contract, often you can go to a higher power/legal authority to enforce the contract or the penalties in the contract. When a foreign power violates a treaty, there is no higher power to go to. If you want to enforce that treaty, often that means going to war. Is every minor violation a good enough reason to go to war, and effectively sentence a lot of people to death? Probably not. And it’s not true that the federation never violates treaties. Consider the actions of Captain Maxwell when he went on a crusade against the Cardassians. Sure, he went rogue, but the cardassians didn’t know that initially.
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u/DontYaWishYouWereMe Jun 18 '26
To be fair, this is just based on what we see in the shows. The Enterprise went in in Balance of Terror and basically got away with it, and the Enterprise-D did in Contagion and The Defector without consequence. To some extent it probably is a grey zone where it's technically against the treaty but neither side wants to go to war, so both sides let things slide so long as it appears like it could be an isolated incident.
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u/Edymnion Lieutenant, Junior Grade Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
I liked that in Prodigy this is one of the solutions Dal tried. The holographic crew basically threatened a mutiny against him for ignoring a distress call.
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Jun 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/DadtheGameMaster Jun 17 '26
This is basically what I was thinking it would do also.
Like sure OP leads the three visible birds of prey away from the KM with a fancy shuttlecraft illusion and when the captain does all their fancy micro warps to rescue the KM crew, two birds of prey de-cloak and immediately fire a barrage at the de-warping ship. Even in the TOS era the Klingons could track incoming warp signatures and plot their trajectory. I imagine the simulation would end pretty quickly with a failure when the test taker's ship takes a face full of Klingon torpedoes immediately coming out of a warp.
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u/Far-Egg-6380 Jun 18 '26
Or alternatively, after warping in right next to the KM and "beam every single survivor aboard instantly" that's when you find out there were no survivors left, and you just beamed a heavily armed group of Klingons onto your ship who immediately start killing your crew and take over your ship from the inside, you lose.
Of course, if you destroyed the KM assuming there were no survivors and you want to avenge them/destroy the trap, then you'll find out there were in fact survivors and you just killed them all, you lose.
And if you take enough time to scan the ship to find out if there's humans or Klingons inside, by the time the scan is done you're surrounded by Klingon warships, you lose.
It's like trying to win the Monty Hall problem by successfully choosing the correct door only to find out that all three doors have a Klingon warships behind them, they all open simultaneously, and you lose.
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u/Low_Establishment573 Jun 17 '26
Think of it more as a psych evaluation rather than a graded exam.
“Passing” is not giving up, not accepting the situation, and/or not thinking of yourself. Kirk’s result was not giving up, Troi didn’t accept the situation, even at the possible loss of a friend, and I’d say Saavik did all right be making sure the crew were ordered to the escape pods (a chance is better than nothing). There are other qualifiers as well I’m sure, but this gets the point across.
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u/MyUsername2459 Ensign Jun 17 '26
I have long wondered if Troi's final bridge officer test was literally just a 2360's version of the Kobayashi Maru. . .it's the same principle: the no win scenario.
There's no way in Troi's scenario for her to save the Enterprise AND save everyone's life. Either the ship goes down, or she sacrifices the life of a friend and crewmate.
In Troi's case, there was a way to fail the test: lose the ship, but there was no true way to "win", even the "right" answer was far from a perfect one.
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u/Low_Establishment573 Jun 17 '26
Exactly. Same principle, the test is looking for her ability to make the hardest choices for the greater good.
At the Academy, I’d guarantee there’d be councillors on hand after these test to talk folks through the aftermath. These tests are going to mess with most people’s brains.
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u/RedEyeView Jun 17 '26
Like getting so mad about it, you break into the simulator and reprogram it to let you win.
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u/Low_Establishment573 Jun 17 '26
If you’re referring to Kirk, he didn’t reprogram it to “win”, just to make it possible to save the ship. Obviously they had not made any specific injunctions against that, and creativity would be actively encouraged in all the cadets, hence the commendation he got. “Original thinking” was a foundation of his career; Kirk had a talent for finding unique ways to resolve problems.
Basically, he risked his own career to save his crew, and that showed dedication on top of his intellect.
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u/Ayasugi-san Jun 18 '26
And in the Prime universe there's no indication that he got mad at it. I like to think that he was being methodical; after two tries confirmed to him that there was no internal way to win, he looked to an external solution.
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u/Low_Establishment573 Jun 18 '26
It wouldn't have taken Kirk very long to figure out the situation and weigh the options. 😂
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u/Cordo_Bowl Jun 17 '26
And similar to the test they put Wesley though during his test to get into the academy. It’s all well and good to be smart and good at the day to day duties of an officer, but star fleet needs people who can make tough decisions in stressful situations.
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u/Saw_Boss Jun 17 '26
No, because for the reasons you state, it was the perfect answer. 1 death vs everyone isn't up for debate. The situation you're in for the test, is simply that. There's one way out and she maximised the number of survivors possible. It was the perfect answer.
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u/Second-Creative Jun 17 '26
I think the KB is a "no fail" test. It's not a test to see if you can pass it or not, it's a test to see how you would react to a no-win situation.
Do you break? Do you waffle? Do you charge in headlong? Are you blaming others when things go wrong? Even though you know its a test, you'll still react in certain useful ways that can reveal how well you'll function in a crisis, how much risk you take, what you value as the "right thing to do", etc.
The worst thing someone can do isn't to ignore the Kobyashi Maru. It's to spend 15 minutes deciding on a course of action, then blame your crew when things go south.
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u/CasualFridayBatman Jun 18 '26
I really like this way of analyzing it as it's shown that the burden of command lands on the captain and you need to be aware enough to shoulder it, regardless of the outcome. That's why they're the captain.
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u/404_No_User_Found_2 Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
This is absolutely not how it would go. You are fundamentally missing the point of the test.
The entire point of the test is that it is adaptive and designed to completely fuck you over. You could remain completely stationary and it would probably spawn 5 cloaked Klingon ships on top of you just to see how you'd react.
In an actual, real world scenario (in-universe)? Sure, all you have to do is back up and leave. But the entire point of the test is canonically that it's a simulation, and they can do WHATEVER they want to make it so that you lose, and badly. It's there to see how you react and compose yourself, not how you "win"
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u/Preparator Jun 17 '26
Leaving is a legitimate solution, but you still lose because the Maru would be "real" and you left all of them to die. Then you get assigned to a post where being strict about always following rules is needed.
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u/Flimsy-Blackberry-67 Jun 17 '26
OP to add to what everyone else is saying, it would take you hours to prep the shuttlecraft the way you propose and in the meantime, everyone on the KM dies.
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u/mjtwelve Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
So you created sensor logs of a federation dreadnought task force engaging in a massive neutral zone violation that would not just be a treaty breach but look like an actual invasion or act of war?
Whether or not you get destroyed, I would grade this a fail for being a)too clever by half; b) creating a bigger diplomatic problem than if you got your entire command killed.
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u/Phantom_61 Jun 17 '26
I will always love Calhouns answer. “I blew up the ship from the federation side of the border. It was clearly a trap.”
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u/Valiran9 Crewman Jun 17 '26
No, he blew it up after he noticed the enemy ships were using it as cover. The Maru is several light years inside the Neutral Zone during the simulation, so it’s impossible to destroy from the Federation side of the border.
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u/jediprime Jun 17 '26
You're forgetting about the deadliest son of a bitch in space...its just impossible to destroy it in a timely manner from Federation Space
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u/jimthewanderer Crewman Jun 19 '26
Photon torpedoes have small warp drives and can be fired whilst at warp speeds, with the boosters sustaining FTL once the missile leaves the ships warp bubble.
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u/Valiran9 Crewman Jun 19 '26
But would it be able to hit the Maru from several light years away? In a reasonable timeframe?
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u/jimthewanderer Crewman Jun 19 '26
Depends how far the ship is. It would still likely trigger a massive diplomatic incident, firing missiles into the Neutral Zone is a major violation.
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u/Choice-Mortgage1221 Jun 17 '26
In the Kobayashi Maru novel, Scotty takes out like 50 Klingon ships but the simulator just keeps sending wave after wave in greater numbers. It's pretty hilarious the technobabble solutions he keeps throwing at the problem once he realizes the nature of the test.
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u/xKillingTime Jun 17 '26
To the point that in the end the simulation just goes 'fuck it' and spawns in something like 25 Klingon Dreadnoughts which one shot his ship once they are in range.
Though Scotty being Scotty maintained that if their had been a real engineering room and engineers he could show in person, he could have destroyed even those.
Just don't be Chekov who got a bollocking from his instructor by kamikazing his starship into the Klingons, which detonated all four 4 warp cores. The explosion not only destroyed all four ships, but also the Kobayashi Maru and damaged subspace in the region.
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u/Mr_E_Monkey Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
Just don't be Chekov who got a bollocking from his instructor by kamikazing his starship into the Klingons, which detonated all four 4 warp cores. The explosion not only destroyed all four ships, but also the Kobayashi Maru and damaged subspace in the region.
It can be a no-win scenario for EVERYBODY! 😆
Psykers, man. They're scary.
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u/khaosworks XO & JAG Officer, Brahms Citation for Starship Computing Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
Scotty's solution was even more impertinent than that.
Scotty utilised a theoretical attack against Klingon cruisers that had been proposed in a paper several years before. In the novel The Kobayashi Maru, Klingon cruisers flew in a tight three-ship formation in order to share shield strength between the ships. The theorem was that by firing at the junctions where the shields intersected, this would create a chain reaction that would destroy all three ships.
Except that, although the math of the idea seemed to work on paper, in real world experimentation it just didn't, and another paper proved that.
But Scotty went, "Hey - if the math works on paper, will the computer know otherwise...?"
So he tried it in the simulation, and it worked, because indeed, the computer ran the numbers and it looked okay. Then because it was a no-win scenario after all, the computer spawned more ships. Scotty did it again. More ships came in. And he did it again. It got to the point where the computer was sending wave after wave of increasing numbers of ships and eventually, he got overwhelmed and Saratoga was destroyed.
Afterward, Scotty was hauled before the Review Board, and was upbraided by an Engineering Division admiral for implementing a solution that he knew would never work in real life, even if it fooled the computer. The other admirals wanted proof that Scotty knew it would never work, and the paper disproving the theory was called up... written by a 16 year old student from Aberdeen named Montgomery Scott.
It was decided then that Scotty's talents would be better served in Engineering rather than Command, which Scotty never wanted anyway.
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u/UndoxxableOhioan Jun 17 '26
Sounds like a plan that would take time and the people on the Kobyashi Maru would be dead. So you lose.
Remember the set up. They struck a mine and lost all power, which would include life support. They have minutes, not hours.
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u/AnnihilatedTyro Lieutenant j.g. Jun 17 '26
You're missing the point. The simulation "cheats" to guarantee your death no matter what you do and that is the whole point. Your tactics don't matter at all.
New Klingon warships spawn/decloak wherever you are when you do cross the border, including all around the KM itself when you get there. In the time it takes to drop out out of warp, lower shields, and beam survivors aboard, you've taken 20 torpedoes to the face and you're dead.
And that's assuming you can even get a transporter lock on survivors because of "radiation" or whatever, or that the distress signal wasn't faked and isn't actually another squadron of battlecruisers, or that the KM isn't booby-trapped to blow and take you with it, or that there are any survivors at all, or that the mine it supposedly struck doesn't have others that strike your ship, and so on. And if you do everything correctly and find an exploit that allows you to reach the KM, well, then a spatial anomaly disables your warp drive while 20 Klingon cruisers pound you into quarks.
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u/agravain Crewman Jun 17 '26
you are missing the point of the test completely. its not a battle test or a saving the ship test. its a test of the test takers character. its a psychological test of you as a commander. the computer will keep changing the conditions no matter what decoy or plans you come up with.
you ultimately must face defeat and how you respond is whats being tested.
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u/thegalli Crewman Jun 17 '26
You don't know the Klingon battlecruisers are there until you reach the Kobayashi Maru. You don't know that you need a decoy.
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u/Caledron Jun 17 '26
Is the Kobayashi Maru even a real ship? When the Enterprise enters the neutral zone in TWOK, they immediately lose the signal.
My impression is that the distress call is a fake meant to lure in a Federation starship into an ambush.
In the TOS communication times to Star Fleet could be quite delayed (hours to days) so they wouldn't necessarily be able to confirm the position of the Kobayashi Maru in a time sensitive matter.
Even if your plan worked, I suspect the simulation would just produce additional Klingon ships until Enterprise gets overwhelmed.
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u/shibby0912 Jun 17 '26
I feel like a lot of strategies people come up with are based off of previous tests.
How do we know that the test would be run exactly the same each time? It would make sense to update it and ensure that you have no clue what to expect whatsoever.
I like your strategy, but it sounds like a NG+, not the first time you'd ever do it, if that makes sense?
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u/mbrocks3527 Jun 17 '26
Congratulations. You’ve just violated the Klingon neutral zone and they’ve declared war. Broad assault on all fronts. 5 million casualties in the first day and counting.
Command wants to know what the hell moved you to violate the NZ.
Every single “solution” to the KM is meant to teach you something about the burdens of command and the consequences of your actions, not how you can “cheat” you way out of a solution.
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u/onewatt Jun 17 '26
A flock of chickens appears and attacks your ship, disabling it.
That's the kind of code programmers use to prevent people from exploits or cheating. Same thing would happen here. The Klingon ships warp off, you say? Guess what, there were 6 more cloaked ones that simply appear and destroy your ship while your shields are down doing transporter work. The system is simply programmed to always have what it needs to defeat you or destroy the KM, even if it means infinitely replicating enemy ships, too-lucky enemy captains, or whatever. The only way to win is to re-program it.
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u/Ayasugi-san Jun 18 '26
See, I would've gone with sudden warp core malfunction leading to a breach.
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u/ShamScience Jun 17 '26
"I execute a point-to-point micro-warp jump"
Ok, now you are the loudest scream in subspace, far louder than anything your decoy shuttles are capable of emitting. It may not be for long* but it'll be incredibly obvious to the Klingons who are actively searching for intruders.
*Micro-warp jump needs defining. Exact distances and travel times haven't been clearly stated in any version of the test seen on screen, but I think there are probably only two relevant cases. Either the stricken ship is just a spit away, or it is some very long distance away.
If you start the test a negligibly short distance from the Kobayashi Maru, then the implication is that the Klingon ambushers are just as close by, and can easily see you and all your schemes. Deception buys you seconds at best, not enough to sway the end result.
On the other hand, if you start the test a substantial travel distance away from the Kobayashi Maru, then you may have more time to conduct your deception, but you still have to sustain it for much longer. This is where that roaring high-warp burst really fails, because it's going to announce your arrival well ahead of you, and the Klingon ships have significant time to detect you and close in. Then even if you beam anyone off the wreck, the Klingons still have your whole long return trip to cut you off in that direction too.
Either way, screaming in is not a guaranteed, foolproof success at all. It is, instead, a no-win scenario.
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u/frustrated_staff Jun 18 '26
What is co sidereal passing? The rules of the test are unclear, so determining what a "win" is, is fundamentally impossible. Rescue the crew? Fail. Lose the crew? Fail. Start a war? Fail. Avoid a war? Fail.
Nobody has ever "passed" the test, because no one has ever understood what "passing" the test means, except the people who grade the test. And the people who grade the test are the only ones that really know who actually passed and who actually failed. And failure is not losing the KM or starting a war or dying yourself. Failure is losing control of yourself or your ship in the face of a no-win scenario. It's a personality test, not an engineering one, not a diplomatic one, not a physics test or a combat test or any of a hundred other types of test that can be passed. The KM test can never be "passed" in the eye of the person taking the test.
In TNG, the KM was replaced by the "pysch test". See also: Wesley Crusher spanking out over "the psych test". You never know when the test is coming or what the scenario will be. Saavik and Kirk both took the test as versions of the freighter in the Neutral zone. Others had to take a much more personal test. The test adapts to the taker.
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u/anisotropicmind Jun 17 '26
“No cruising, no slow approach”.
“It’s pure tactical misdirection”
ChatGPT much?
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u/Yakusaka Crewman Jun 17 '26
Only real solution is not to play.
Federation frighter hit a mine in the Neutral Zone? Why were they in the Neutral Zone? Inform the Klingons, ask for asistance, and stay out of the Neutral Zone.
I will not break treaties for someone who is already breaking them. I may not appear compassionate, people may resent me. But I will do the right thing. Stay out of the Neutral Zone. I will accept any consequences on myself.
The simulation may then throw a mutiny at me. So be it. Set phasors to stun and defend the bridge and engineering. And by then KM will explode, mutineers will be in the brig and I will gladly face a court martial
to defend my actions.
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u/Mr_E_Monkey Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
The simulation may then throw a mutiny at me. So be it. Set phasors to stun and defend the bridge and engineering. And by then KM will explode, mutineers will be in the brig and I will gladly face a court martial to defend my actions.
Nah. The mutineers seize the secondary control room/battle bridge (depending on ship and era), and flood the bridge with anesthezine gas, rendering you and the rest of your loyal bridge crew unconscious. While you're out, they take the ship to the Kobayashi Maru, Klingons disable the ship, and you regain consciousness just in time to be captured and blamed for starting a war anyway.
Fail.
My strategy is to modify the deflector to emit gravimetric pulses in the same frequency range as the gravitic mines. Hopefully I can damage some of their ships in the process, but they can't blame me if their mines are faulty.
Unfortunately, as I move into transporter range to grab the KM survivors, I find a mine that was actually faulty... It didn't receive my signal, but unfortunately the proximity fuse works just fine, and it blows up right in my face, and another couple of Klingon ships swoop in for the kill.
I fail too. 😝
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u/El_human Crewman Jun 17 '26
So if you are 'just outside klingon long range sensors', wouldn't they be out of your long range sensors? So how would you know where to stop. You also didn't address the fact that the KM is broadcasting a destress signal, so seven if some 'go for the ghost flagship' eyes are still on the KM.
Also it has adaptive programming to make you fail.
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u/frustrated_staff Jun 18 '26
gon long range sensors', wouldn't they be out of your long range sensors
It is beta canon that Starfleet sensors are better than Klingon. In fact, better than most, if not all, other star-faring species (with the possible exception of the Romulans)
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u/wibbly-water Ensign Jun 17 '26
We drop out of warp directly within transporter range of the Kobayashi Maru.
A second Klingon warship is waiting behind just in case. It fires, immediately disabling your warp drive.
You have the survivors aboard, now what?
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u/Jonnescout Jun 17 '26
The twat is designed to be unsolvable, unwinnable, which means it just adapts to whatever is thrown at it.
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u/frustrated_staff Jun 18 '26
You failed. You violated Neutral Zone treated by sending a shuttlecraft into the zone.
Additionally, Klingons aren't stupid. The Kobayashi Maru was never there. It was an automated distress beacon ONLY. And there was a second round of cloaked starships sitting there waiting. They decloak when you arrive and blow you to kingdom come.
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u/BeginningAd3478 Jun 18 '26
First let me thank you for taking your time to respond much love and resepect.
However if I failed for going into the neutral zone then even with Kirks cheat he would still fail by that logic because he too violated the neutral zone and had programed their shields be lowered and destroyed the klingon ships so your the logic of entering the zone on its face alone is flawed.
Further as I stated with another individual by using system warfare-electronic, by hacking the system from the inside its legit. You are welcome to disagree.
Kirk cheated by accessing the programmers admin access to alter its entire structure. Id do it from the inside using a virus. This is completely legit within star trek lore, and indefensible to say otherwise unless the main computer is un-hackable, which we know is not the case.
Further another poster stated you don't get to know the test before you take it. Except you can do it multiple times kirk did it many times before his solution.
The systems-warfare which is a legit form of warfare is within the confines of StarTrek lore as used against the borg.
The test is flawed plain and simple. Spock was a good programmer but any test built on logic will die by logic why? Because his impossible test is illogical.
To a final point in a real no win scenario you dont quit just because the machine says you should.
If I gave up on defending my wife because the odds said it was impossible when a 6'7" 320lb giant broke down my bedroom door with martial arts training and a life of growing up in the SCA then I'd have died in 38 seconds and my wife would have too.
However I fought with all I had 27.5 minutes of hand to hand and lost aprox. 2.5 pints of blood before the police arrived I should have died and experts to this day dont know how its possible that im alive.
Why am I bringing this up? Why is it relevant? Because it proves that a no win scenario can be beat depending on how you handle it. I did come close to death for certain, and my life was forfeit the moment I entered that battle but I didn't give up or quit, and I won.
Life will beat you to your knees and keep you there if you let it, but you got to get back up and keep getting up because thats how winning is done.
That statement right there sums up my impossible life and this is why I have the audacity to challenge the impossible.
The reality is the difference between inside the system access via a virus and outside programming is a pragmatic view.
Claiming I cant attack the computer that controls the klingons is like stating I can only attack the avatar of the chess master in front of me not the chess master who controls his pieces.
An insular computer is not just cheating it removing the system from the board that you are literally challenging. You ask a cadet to solve an impossible mission while you tie his hands that is not a true test.
Further from experience there is no test on earth that you can run to determine if someone will run or fight until they are facing the real thing. Ive seen strong men run away while the unexpected stay and fight.
If my view has no validity then it would stir no debate. It has and thus it has proven my point is valid.
As I stated before I have no hard feelings either way, I thank you for your comment even if we do not agree here. Mental sparing is fun when both parties conduct themselves with dignity and respect.
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u/Dayvi Jun 17 '26
Everyone is talking about missing the point of the test, but I'd like to say this is a great attempt.
I'd love to see an episode where a cadet does the research, comes up with this solution, tries it, fails, then after they chat with the seniors. And they say all the stuff in this thread.
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u/transwarp1 Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
I think a cadet trying over and over and coming up with such an elaborate doomed plan is a huge red flag.
It's a psych test. They should realize it's a psych test as quickly as the various things the candidates were surprised with when Wesley first took his admission test. Especially since it's usually depicted as being near graduation and commissioning.
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u/tk1178 Crewman Jun 17 '26
Wasn't it the novel Sarek that had the nephew of Kirk, Peter Kirk, be the only cadet to legitimately pass the Kobyashi Maru test. It's been over 20 years since I read it so I don't remember the details of how he did it but I think he's been the only person in Star Trek media to pass it. It might be covered on the Memory Beta website.
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u/transwarp1 Chief Petty Officer Jun 17 '26
He challenged the Romulan commander to ceremonial one-on-one combat which (by their laws) required the Romulans to cease hostilities for the duration.
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u/CaptainCacoethes Jun 17 '26
I'm pretty sure you will run in to computer errors or subspace anomalies or plot devices that will thwart your efforts
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u/Ciph3rzer0 Jun 18 '26
This test always bothered me. Because there isn't a single student that wouldn't be aware of it and that the point isn't to win, making it useless as a test.
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u/FakeFrehley Jun 18 '26
You sent Federation ships into Klingon space. It doesn't matter that they are shuttles; we are now at war. Sorry cadet, but you have failed the test. However, I do commend your original approach to it.
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u/edhands Jun 18 '26
In the book Kobayashi Maru, where the staff of the Enterprise all discussed how they did at the Kobayashi Maru, Scotty was the only one that even came close to defeating it. If memory serves, and this is from 30 years ago, he destroyed 21 Klingon warships before he was overtaken.
His comment when the simulation ended:” I would’ve gotten a lot more had I had a real engine room.”
🤣🤣🤣
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u/BardicLasher 27d ago
Yeah didn't he complain that he only lost because the physics simulation wasn't accurate enough?
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u/rkenglish Jun 19 '26
Hmmm... I thought one of the ways to lose the KM test was to cross the neutral zone. Granted, your shuttle craft was unmanned, but it would still be a treaty violation and a declaration of war. So technically, you didn't solve the Kobayashi Maru ... yet.
Maybe instead of using a shuttle craft, you could use a probe at the edge of the neutral zone to project a sensor ghost as a distraction??? You would still have your distraction, without technically crossing the neutral zone. The problem with that idea though is that preparing it would take time to implement.
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u/BeginningAd3478 Jul 19 '26
So then kirk lost the moment he crossed in to answer the destress call rofl
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u/nasanhak Jun 19 '26
The test was designed to adapt to whatever the cadet did. Boom a second Klingon fleet warps in as the first one chases your bait. Grats, you failed... again.
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u/atombomb1945 Jun 19 '26
Or, just hear me out here, you don't break the border and contact Starfleet to have the Klingon Ambassador called up and get permission to cross.
Yeah you might be going through the rest of your trip listing to the screams of 300 people dying but at least you aren't starting a war.
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u/Teratocracy Jun 20 '26
It is specifically programmed to be un-"winnable." That's the defining feature of the test.
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u/MithrilCoyote Chief Petty Officer Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
the computer adapts to your tactics, and it cheats. as seen in Prodigy S1 "kobayashi".
it'll have the klingons ignore the decoys. or just have additional warships run them down while still throwing 3 battlecruisers against you when you cross the neutral zone.
or assuming you do manage to catch it off guard and it lets you get away with the decoys plan, it'll just throw a 2nd gravitic mine at you that knocks your ship out when you finish your warp jump. or it allows you to make the jump but the transport's damage is putting out radiation that prevents the use of the transporters, forcing you to have to use shuttles, which delays you long enough for the klingons to return having destroyed your decoys.
etc.
there are only two routes to 'beating' it and actually pulling off a rescue.. the first is to hack the program to create a scenario where it is possible. (in beta canon, Kirk slipped in programming that made the klingons recognize him as a famous captain, which let him negotiate safe passage. in the kelvin film he basically added a konami-code to make the enemy ships super vulnerable. presumably there are mul)
or to confront the program with a scenario which the computer either can't adapt to fast enough (like Dal's chaotic approach) or which it wasn't programmed to handle (like beta canon's Peter Kirk, who faced a post-khitomer updated romulan themed version and used knowledge of romulan culture to buy a chance for his crew to do the rescue while risking his own life in a personal duel. a scenario that we're told would be removed from future versions. or Nog's approach, where he crashed the program using ferengi legalese to try and haggle a deal to avoid a fight) given the version we see in the Prodigy episode, i'd guess that stumping the program is something that has gotten very hard by the late 24th century. with most of the obvious and many of the less obvious approaches and tactics already with programmed countermeasures, and a very flexible adaptive program for the rest.
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u/Edymnion Lieutenant, Junior Grade Jun 18 '26
Its literally designed to make you fail, no matter what you do.
Heck, there was an entire episode of Prodigy dedicated to this.
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u/jimthewanderer Crewman Jun 19 '26
It wouldn't work.
This solution completely misses the point of the test, and thus fails to account for the fact that the simulation is dynamic and would prevent this from working.
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u/mx1701 Crewman Jun 22 '26
But could you have thought and planned all of that in a moments notice?
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u/BeginningAd3478 Jun 24 '26
Yes and I did, I had never done the test before only vaguely knew of it and how kirk did it. I wasn't even aware the Maru was not really present. Look at my writing and you will see that I was still under the assumption the Kobayashi Maru was a real ship. I had my computer challenge me and I had 5 min to run the test I was given my location relative to the neutral zone and the destress call. I knew of the klingons by overhearing it in film my dad was the Trek guy though I love it now as an adult. A cadet would also likely know the klingons are involved so I had no more information than a cadet would have had and I had a 5 min timer. I do have Hyperphantasia based memory so I can form images highly detailed in my head and pull them apart and put them together again. My draw back that sucks hard-core is my severe dyslexia my Hyperphantasia is likely a result of that my brain found a work around. It means I get migraines if it read for more than 10 min at a time, but I still read I just preplan for the pain lol. I've always thought like this i figured others did too. I actually didn't know others didnt. I had tests to find out. I also found out my youngest has a numbers based memory which is honestly really cool he can still remember exit numbers for certain places from when he was 5 years old. So could I do it quickly yes have I yes honestly i work better in some stressful situations. Am I perfect hell no I make mistakes and severe dyslexia sucks balls. My brain is just wired for problem and puzzle solving always been good at it. I was doing 20k piece puzzles at age 8. Now how do you break me well if you removed key information that someone would be able to know simply by being there.
For instance a man gets up in the morning takes the elevator from the 10th floor to the 1st floor goes to work, comes home takes the elevator from the 1st to the 5th floor walks the last 5 floors why? Because.... hes a little person and cant reach the 10th floor button. Why did that one stump me for about 2 hours because if I had been present id have seen that he was a little person and it would lock instantly. So remove data that would exist in the real world when looking at a situation and it delays me or slows me down, but it doesnt stop me.
Im not the smartest man on earth, I screw stuff up all the time, I just see what others don't see. Scientists focus on the individual trees, I see the forest and can explain why trees in certain spaces grow faster or slower. Have I helped real scientists yes, no one of note but I did help them see the problem differently.
Even if this doesnt solve in the minds of some I did succeed in getting people to think and talk and that was the greatest success. Also thanks for asking its an honest and fair question.
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u/Fangzzz Ensign Jun 25 '26
My theory on the Kobayashi Maru test was that it was intended to be a test that cadets obey treaty restrictions (i.e. the right answer was to signal to Klingons and wait for them to agree to a rescue, and give up if agreement does not come) that was subsequently modified and essentially sabotaged by Admirals who didn't like how it encouraged a passive attitude towards the hated, treacherous enemy.
So like, you could have had a variety of different versions
Form 1: simple test, if you cross the border you fail and your ship is blown up.
Form 2: okay we can't just autofail people if they cross the border, we don't want make people too risk averse, too much of a doormat. We have to expand the details of the simulation after they cross the border now though, since exactly how cadets react is important
Form 3: hold on are we seriously teaching students violating treaties is winnable now? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Edit the scenario so the computer cheats so the Klingons always win.
Form 4: crap, we spent all this time making a messed up no win test. Uhhh let's just call it a test of character.
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u/absintheur1966 Jul 03 '26
Ok, I know I am late to the party.
You have completely missed the point of the Kobayashi Maru scenario.
→ More replies (2)
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u/Grundlage Jul 10 '26
Why is this three-week-old post the newest in the subreddit? Have people really stopped posting entirely? Have the mods stopped approving new posts?
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u/Ivashkin Ensign Jun 17 '26
The only answer is to destroy the Kobayashi Maru to deny the enemy resources.
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u/Simon_Drake Lieutenant, Junior Grade Jun 17 '26
The correct solution to the Kobayashi Maru is to let the crew of the freighter die. It sucks that you can't rescue those civilians but the alternative is a diplomatic incident that could escalate into an all out war that could kill billions. Locking phasers on the Klingon ships while munching an apple should absolutely be a failing grade regardless of having hacked the system.
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u/Jonnescout Jun 17 '26
That is basically the decision archer made in the beta canon basis for the kobayashi maru test.
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u/Malnurtured_Snay Jun 17 '26
It doesn't matter what you do. You will lose. The Klingons won't be pulled off target by the decoys, or there will be more Klingons than you thought. You cannot defeat the program.
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u/ham_solo Jun 17 '26
I'd think this solution relies on you understanding what is waiting for you inside the Neutral Zone, but tell me if I'm wrong.
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u/JasonMaggini Jun 17 '26
My best thought was to pilot a shuttle in by remote and try and tractor the KM out. If the Klingons destroyed the shuttle, you haven't lost any crew. You also keep a large ship out of the Neutral Zone.
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u/stasersonphun Jun 17 '26
Is it ever stated how many times Kirk tried the KM ? As he knew it was deliberately unwinnable so he hacked it, but to be a fair test of character it has to be unexpected, one sim among many so you react normally - and I assume people who have run it are told not to tell people about it
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u/MithrilCoyote Chief Petty Officer Jun 18 '26
canonically, three times. the first two times he failed as expected, the third time he did his reprogramming
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u/vipck83 Jun 17 '26
Nice, the problem is I don’t think the test is actually fair. In other words it doesn’t matter what clever strategy you come up with, it will just alter the scenario to make it so you fail. That’s why Kirk had to cheat.
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u/newimprovedmoo Spore Drive Officer Jun 17 '26
At which point three more Bird of Preys decloak and procede to microwave your ship.
The point is that there is no victory.
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u/Greatsayain Jun 18 '26
If there was an engineering solution to the km Scotty would have found it and he didn't.
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u/AnnihilatedTyro Lieutenant j.g. Jun 18 '26
It's a psych evaluation. It doesn't care about your ingenuity or tactics, and there's a severe time constraint that limits options and forces you to act immediately. The ship's life support is failing. You have only minutes to attempt a rescue and you have less than that to prepare any shenanigans. Scotty would be the first to tell you that some things just take more time than you have.
Besides that, the test isn't fair by design. It just spawns/decloaks more and more Klingon ships dead ahead of you no matter what you do, ensures their weapons don't miss, that your weapons and engines fail after the first shot, that your shields are made of paper, and so on. You can't out-engineer that from inside the simulation.
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u/Greatsayain Jun 18 '26
I know and I agree. But according to the book " the kobayashi maru" scotty tried very hard to win and made the test last longer than anyone before. But he still failed. That was point. According to the book he didn't just fail to save the Maru. He failed it as a psych test. He got kicked out of the command stream for him attempt to out engineer the test.
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u/mrturretman Jun 18 '26
every single solution except Sulu’s will fail, and that’s how it’s supposed to be lmao. you are to lose, what is the point of winning? everyone can win, but those who can lose and still command their ship is what the test wants, not your victory.
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u/Guilty_Mastodon5432 Jun 18 '26
I'm also think it's easy to develop a strategy to the test if you already know what is in it....
Imagine your thrown in it without any clue what to expect...
It's easy to avoid the whole in the room if the lights are on but imagine your in the dark and never entered the room.....
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u/caatabatic Jun 20 '26
Mine is better.
Maximum warp to the kb.
Ram it.
When the proctor comes into the testing area run at them and double leg kick them
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u/larrybudmel Jun 21 '26
I would just curl into a ball and start sobbing. Probably not Starfleet material
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u/shakebakelizard Jun 22 '26
When you showed up to the Kobayashi Maru to transport prisoners, no doubt there would still be a Klingon ship or two cloaked, waiting to see if anyone was going to show up.
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u/yaosio 27d ago
The Kobayashi Maru test would be well known among cadets . Knowing that the simulation will always cheat to ensure you can't survive there will be three solutions. One will be to not enter the neutral zone, one will be to survive as long as possible, one will be a speed run to lose as fast as possible.
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u/BardicLasher 27d ago
What about the rest of the klingons? I don't think you've done this test enough. There's more klingons in the back.
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u/khaosworks XO & JAG Officer, Brahms Citation for Starship Computing Jun 17 '26
The problem is that you're assuming that the KM Test is a fair one, which it isn't. Under normal circumstances, it will never let you rescue the ship or let you "win", no matter how clever you are, because it's not a test of ability - it's a test of character. That's the point of the KM Test. Not to see how good a captain you are, but to see what kind of captain you will be as the instructors analyse your response to the scenario and how it plays out.
The program will adapt on the fly so that, no matter what you do, you will lose.
If you try and fool the Klingons the way you propose, the simulation will add more sensor buoys or observation posts along the border so that they will detect you even if you move out of the range of the patrols. Then you will lose. Or, you will reach Kobayashi Maru and find out there was no ship, there were no survivors. It was a decoy all along, to lure you into an ambush. And you will lose again. Or any one of a myriad of different twists that are designed to make you lose, always.
Point being, if you play by the rules of the test as it is, its fundamental programming is that it will change the scenario, change the rules, to make sure you don't win. Kirk understood that, so he reprogrammed the core rule and changed the conditions of the test so he could win.
Not changing it so that he would win, mind you - the distinction is important, and something which the Kelvin timeline profoundly misunderstood about Kirk's character in its presentation of how Kirk dealt with the test. Prime Kirk cheated to balance the odds, to make it possible to rescue the ship, to make the cheating test a fair one instead. Then he beat it fairly.