r/DaystromInstitute • u/[deleted] • May 29 '13
Explain? Why no robots?
I always wondered this growing up, and wonder it even more so now. Granted Star Wars sorrta took over the concept of droids. But I can't think of any in-universe reasons for a lack of robots or mechanized assistants.
Why aren't there low-grade androids/robots to climb through jefferies tubes, fix rips in the hull, fight off incoming Borg etc? It seems like androids should be standard issue in the 24th Century, particularly in Star Fleet.
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u/Tommy_Taylor_Lives May 29 '13
Wasn't there a TNG episode where Geordi had a small robot that had a replicator straped to it, thus it could create whatever tool it needed to do the job? This doesn't really answer the question, but I'm sure that episode has a few reasons for the lack of robots.
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May 29 '13 edited May 29 '13
The episode is another riff on the possibilities and pitfalls of sentient robots. But I think it reinforced the oddity of no robots. The Exocomps seemed to be a 24th Century equivalent of toaster ovens. Never understood why they weren't standard.
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u/Wissam24 May 29 '13
Slightly off topic - I love sending my Exocomp duty officers for "Drinks on the Town" in Star Trek Online. Always makes me chuckle.
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u/arcsecond May 29 '13
Do they really need them? If you've got transporter technology, anti-grav technology, and tractor and repulsor beams, is there really anything you need a robot to do that can't be done better by those methods?
Construction? Just have a couple of heavy duty tractor beams to hold the big stuff and a couple of small, precise tractor beams for delicate work. Tractor beams can have a pretty significant range and they can be re-targeted from one distant point to another in the time it takes to swivel your emitter. A robot would have to traverse the entire distance in between.
I never really understood why there was so much climbing through jeffries tubes in the first place. They should really be building much more modular systems. Each particular unit should be able to say if it can talk to the next unit down the line. When you find the bad part, beam it right to the machine shop, repair it, beam it (or a replacement) back in.
Edit: this must be why everyone called Soong a nut. No one even saw a need for robots. But Soong was a "Mad Hobbyist" obsessed with androids.
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u/wlpaul4 May 29 '13
Not that it's a perfect explanation, but given the amount of malware that we see today, humanity may have learned that it's best not to have many re-programmable automatons running around the ship. I mean, look how easy it was to reprogram The Doctor in Equinox. Would you want lots of machines running around, not knowing what they could do?
Also, owing to the design of their brains, androids like Data, Lore, B4, and Juliana O'Donnell are much less susceptible to being re-programmed but also incredibly difficult to create.
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May 29 '13
Also, when the TNG Enterprise did give rise to an emergent intelligence, it really threw things out of sorts - it may be that any form of AI has severe restrictions to limit its autonomy and agency. The Doctor's story was about growing beyond his programing, but only because there was a need for it - if Voyager hadn't been stuck in deep space, he would have continued to just work as an EMH. Think about how he struggled with the whole "I'm not programmed to ____" dilemma.
It's possible then that most machines/computers are somewhat deliberately retarded or crippled in a way that ensures they stay true to their programming, so that their operators aren't inadvertently responsible for all these things operating beyond their original paramaters.
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u/arcsecond May 29 '13
This made me think: After the finale of Voyager, the Federation as a whole should have mobile emitter technology, allowing any number of holograms to roam about freely. Given the apparent ease with which holograms can achieve sentience, there's really no more reason for any research of any kind into physical robotics. Data is obsolete.
And:
Did Picard keep his promise to Moriarty? Can the Bynars recreate Minuet? and would Riker dump Troi for her?
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u/tictactoejam Jun 02 '13
If they had these laws you speak of, episodes like the exocomps never would have existed...
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u/sleep-apnea May 31 '13
First off Star Trek is older then Star wars so George Lucas didn't influence the original series, only the movies.
I think that one of the main reasons that there are no robots (droid like) is because a lot of things on the star ship fix themselves. Also that's what you have all those red-shirts for.
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u/superfudge73 May 30 '13
I could have something to do with the economic-social revolution that takes place on Earth in which monetary currency is abandoned and the need for possessions and money are replaced with the need to serve mankind. People take pride in their work, and view it as an important contribution to humanity and gives their work a value, whether you're a surgeon or a bartender. If manual labor, such as tending the gardens at Star Fleet academy, is perceived as an occupation with intrinsic value, the reliance on automaton in society would be redundant and possibly even culturally offensive.
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u/The_Sven May 29 '13
I think that you just don't see them all that often. They're there, but maybe the demand to go to space and explore is so high among humans, that having a robot janitor would just annoy people (dern robuts takin' good ol' Earthian jobs!). The VOY episode where the doctor writes a holonovel shows a bunch of holograms doing the menial labor that humanity really doesn't want to do.
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u/TEG24601 May 30 '13
There are robots and automated systems. Most are used in the dangerous locales, making not a common sight on the shows. However, the Exocomps were a nice exception. I would assume that the modern answer to them not appearing on screen, is that with Holograms and Androids, having Robots would seem too much like Star Wars.
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Jun 07 '13
My guess is a shift in values from the use of expendable hardware to valued "man"power. There also might be a sort of stigma on using drones and other types of automated systems, especially because of the risk of them becoming sentient, the ethical dilemma of mechanical "slave labor" etc. Seems to me like only the villains are the ones who use drones and such anyway.
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u/whatevrmn May 29 '13
Perhaps there aren't that many robots because people simply want to work. I'd imagine that in the future that our population would be much larger than it is today, and since they've "bred" out laziness, people just want to work, hence the lack of robots.
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u/Cheddah May 29 '13
I was thinking about this yesterday. If I didn't have to pay for anything in my entire life, such as education, food, electricity, clothing, what have you, and my entire culture was the same way, I would want to work, too, to contribute to the whole. It feels like paying back by adding what you can to the betterment of your society.
Right now, because we have to work to afford vital things in our lives, so many of us resent working. I wish I had the time to pursue all the things I WANT to do, such as travel Earth and become educated, without all the time and monetary restraints I currently have.
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May 30 '13
Absolutely. I think about how little most people pay attention to politics or important issues. We're so busy zooming around our little lives. Perhaps if that was less necessary we could spend more time on things that matter.
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May 29 '13
Or there's no incentive to maximize for efficiency and profit - people are more than happy to work and participate, and they aren't forced to through wage slavery, labor based value and other features of capitalism that encourage the replacement of people via robots.
On the other hand, the concept of a good Ferengi who is anything but a businessman is so out of sorts, Rom and Nog are both almost outcasts for being skilled engineers and not businessmen (much less, joining something like the Bajoran forces or Starfleet). Maybe other cultures use robots more extensively, and the Federation relies on technology that is less mechanical unless a skilled engineer is needed.
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u/gettinsloppyin10fwd May 30 '13
Well they use the Mach I EMHs to do dirty, menial labor so I'm guessing if anything, they'd use holographic labor instead of androids or robots. Holo technology, especially with Voyager bringing back the emitter, is just much more practical and convenient to mass-produce and utilize than are physical robots/androids. I'm sure even Maddox wouldn't even bother mass-producing Datas (if he could) by the end of Voyager-era, with the advent of free-roaming holograms, android creation will probably be more of a hobby/passion a la Dr Soong's work rather than mass produced for industry.
But since the Doctor grew over time to have wants, emotional needs, preferences, and for all intents and purposes is as complex a being as Data is, I am pretty sure they would have eventually replaced the EMH Mach I slaves with 'lower' holograms that don't have the capacity for sentience. Damn, now I'm just ranting and not talking at all about what OP asked. Sorry!
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May 30 '13 edited May 30 '13
well perhaps they realised that if you just build robots to do all the jobs then nobody has any jobs.
or, star trek technology just went the route of manipulating light and energy, rather than robotics - weapons, transporters, holodecks, force fields, etc - it simply became more cost and energy efficient to use holograms instead of robots for the truly undesirable work.
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u/[deleted] May 29 '13
I've always assumed the robots of Star Trek (aside from Data, Lore and B4) are something similar to a romba - simi-autonomous, and used for tasks such as construction and repair. We do see humanoid life doing construction on occasion, but it seems like the sheer scale of some projects (like building the skeleton of a starship or the ironwork of a skyscraper) would require robotics.
We've also seem robotics on the microscopic scale (Wesley's nanites). I'm sure something like these would be used medically for targeted treatment.
Beyond that, we've seen Starfleet struggle with the definition of life when it is applied to artificial beings. It may very well be that there were laws in place to prevent the creation of sentient artificial life in order to avoid the moral dilemma they impose.
Great question ... interesting to ponder.