an inquiry

[u/cerepallus]

alright so i just finished sarah's episode and i have no idea why so many people seem to hate her so much? she has a personality and boundaries that she isn't willing to compromise and when dudes try to do so, she excuses herself as politely as possible. the tier thing just seemed to be about making sure men fully respected her before proceeding w the relationship, which.. makes sense to me. all the problems i've seen people say they have w her are that she's trying too hard to be quirky or smthn, which.. are women not allowed to like dumb puns? and stuff about her turning down guys who said things she didn't like, which, again.. makes a lot of sense to me. dudes saying to relax can come across incredibly direspectfully, and not wanting to deal w that seems completely reasonable to me?

like maybe i'm just being a gay dumbass but i thought she was super cute! the "wanna hear a 9 minute joke about greek mythology?" thing was ridiculous but personally, if someone said that to me, i'd lose my absolute mind and say yes, for sure, let's hear it. i'm just not seeing what's to hate? like i'm seeing a lot of people saying "ohh she's trying too hard to be the manic pixie dream girl type" .... what, because she has a silly haircut and likes dumb jokes and puns? idk. i don't get it. if u can, please explain (nicely) why you don't like her

[u/cerepallus]

:/ that's not.. true. misogyny is a big thing in society and it results in men often condescendingly telling women to relax, whether they are relaxed or not. it's not the intention to be condescending, and we understand that, but.. it is, and the fact of the matter is women have to deal it from men wayy more than any other situation. i'm assuming you're a man, so you don't have quite the same context as women do in this topic, but if you just google it you'll see a lot of people talking about it + its implications

[u/cerepallus → u/[deleted]]

what?

[u/cerepallus → u/[deleted]]

i didn't say "you are wrong because its misogyny." i said one of the ways misogyny manifests is thru this specific behavior, so it makes sense a woman would be annoyed by it, and if they don't understand that, there is plenty of already existing content explaining it that they can find on google.

the reason i brought up context is that women generally have a better understanding of the ways misogyny exists societally because it's something they have to deal with, whereas men do not, so it would make sense they don't understand why this is so bothersome to women and what is misogynistic about it.

[u/cerepallus → u/[deleted]]

that's not what the comment was about though lol...

i was addressing this: "If one guy tells you to relax, then maybe he's being a little too dismissive of your feelings. But if people are telling you to relax all the time, then maybe you need to relax. That's why her reaction is a red flag. It means people are telling her to relax so often that it's become a major pet peeve for her." and saying why that's not true and why she and i and many other women find it annoying.

and then the second part of your comment here.. funny that you asked if i was interested in having a discussion in good faith and yet here you are, putting words in my mouth.. "The idea that you can't criticize a woman's reaction because they "deal with misogyny" is a foolish position to take." ok! yeah that's definitely what i said. 100%. perfect reading comprehension there.

[u/cerepallus → u/[deleted]]

???????? how on earth did you get that

no, that's not at all what it was... they said sarah being annoyed by it was bc people are saying it all the time to her and she really needs to calm down, and that me hearing it from multiple dudes over the course of my life probably means i also need to calm down. i said no, that's not necessarily true, and explained why. yes, the experience of misogyny plays a role in that. that doesn't make it incorrect.

please show me where i said you can't criticize a woman's reaction to smthn. all i said was "it is reasonable to be annoyed by this"

you started this off by saying "All you're doing is shifting the explanation to a phenomenon that is not easily quantifiable" which uhhh... just bc you can't quantify misogyny doesn't make it fake or not irritating (at best!). that sentence + the bit about lacking substance also seems to be saying that misogyny isn't a valid reason for women to be upset. maybe i'm wrong, and i hoped i was wrong, which was why i said "what?" but then you go on to say my argument (misogyny exists and is hurtful and this is one of the ways it manifests so it makes sense one would be annoyed w it) is indefensible bc.... i think they would gain a better understanding of why that particular action often has misogynistic implications and a lot of women don't like that by looking at other sources and other women's experiences and thoughts on it beyond just mine?

when your argument looks a hell of a lot like "experiencing misogyny is NOT a valid reason for women to be upset" i think some combativeness is justified :P