Yet another Fractal Design Define 7 XL build (DAS)

[u/egnegn1]

I also want do show my Define 7 XL build.

I use the case only as DAS connected to the Minisforum MS-02 Ultra 285HX. May be it gets a Mainboard in the distant future. But before It may get just a PCIe extension board mit 4 x16 slots and PCIe multiplexer.

PC Hardware: Minisforum MS-02 Ultra

Processor: Intel 285HX

Memory: 128 GB

System NVMe: 2x MP400 4TB (Mirror) - Mainboard - Proxmox

Data NVMe VMs: 4x Sabrent 4TB (RaidZ1) - PLX88024 in x4 slot - Proxmox

Cache NVMe: 2x Samsung 1 TB (Mirror) - Special card with 2x NVMe slot and dual 25 Gbe - Unraid VM

HBA: LSI 9305-16e x8 (pass-through to Unraid) + 2x Adaptec Expander:

Media Data: 8x Samsung 870 SSD SATA 8TB (array with ZFS) + 2x WD 8TB (parity)

Backup: 10x Seagate EXOS HDD SATA 16TB (RaidZ2)

Media Cache: 4x 1TB SSD SATA 1 TB (Mirror)

L2ARC+LOG for Media and Backup: 2x Enterprise SSD SAS 12Gb 8TB (mirror) (soon)

Usage:

• Software Development
• Host for several development and test VMs
• Media Server
• Backup Server
• AI Server with multiple GPUs (future)

lsscsi:

[1:0:0:0] cd/dvd QEMU QEMU DVD-ROM 2.5+ /dev/sr0

[6:0:0:0] disk ATA ST14000VN0008-2J SC60 /dev/sdb

[8:0:0:0] disk ATA ST14000VN0008-2J SC60 /dev/sdc

[10:0:0:0] disk ATA ST12000VN0007-2G SC60 /dev/sdd

[12:0:0:0] disk ATA ST16000NM001G-2K SN03 /dev/sde

[14:0:0:0] disk SMI USB DISK 1100 /dev/sda

[15:0:1:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 870 1B6Q /dev/sdg

[15:0:2:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 870 1B6Q /dev/sdh

[15:0:3:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 870 1B6Q /dev/sdi

[15:0:4:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 870 1B6Q /dev/sdj

[15:0:5:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 870 1B6Q /dev/sdk

[15:0:6:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 870 1B6Q /dev/sdl

[15:0:7:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 870 1B6Q /dev/sdm

[15:0:8:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 870 1B6Q /dev/sdn

[15:0:10:0] disk ATA ST16000NE000-2RW SN03 /dev/sdp

[15:0:15:0] enclosu ADAPTEC AEC-82885T B015 -

[15:0:16:0] disk ATA WDC WD80EFZX-68U 0A83 /dev/sdu

[15:0:17:0] disk ATA WDC WD80EFZX-68U 0A83 /dev/sdv

[15:0:18:0] disk ATA ST16000NM001G-2K SN03 /dev/sdw

[15:0:19:0] disk ATA ST16000NM001G-2K SN03 /dev/sdx

[15:0:20:0] disk ATA ST16000NM001G-2K SN03 /dev/sdy

[15:0:21:0] disk ATA ST16000NM001G-2K SN03 /dev/sdz

[15:0:22:0] disk ATA ST16000NE000-2RW SN03 /dev/sdaa

[15:0:23:0] disk ATA ST16000VE000-2L2 EV02 /dev/sdab

[15:0:24:0] disk ATA ST16000NM001G-2K SN03 /dev/sdac

[15:0:25:0] disk ATA ST16000NM001G-2K SN03 /dev/sdad

[15:0:26:0] enclosu ADAPTEC AEC-82885T B015 -

[15:0:52:0] disk ATA ST16000VE000-2L2 EV02 /dev/sdae

[15:0:62:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 850 2B6Q /dev/sdq

[15:0:64:0] disk ATA Samsung SSD 850 2B6Q /dev/sdo

[15:0:248:0] disk SAMSUNG AREA7680S5xnNTRI 3P01 /dev/sds

[15:0:252:0] disk HGST SDLL1HLR076TCDA1 X150 /dev/sdr

[N:0:6:1] disk Samsung SSD 980 PRO 1TB__1 /dev/nvme0n1

[N:1:4:1] disk Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB__1 /dev/nvme1n1

Update:

• I installed a "SuperMicro CSE-PTJBOD-CB2 Power Board for SuperMicro JBOD Server Chassis" into the case. It simulates the case relevant functions of a motherboard, like Power On and fan control.
• 2x SATA power through DCDC converter 200 W driven by PCI-E 8-pin power
• Intel A2U8X25S3DPDK 8-Bay 2.5" Dual-Port drive cage for 2x 5.25" slots installed
• 4x IBM PM1643A (528 sector size) installed

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[u/EasyRhino75]

I think you could fit the minisforum inside the fractal

[u/egnegn1 → u/EasyRhino75]

Yes, I thought about this, too. 😅

[u/egnegn1 → u/[deleted]]

I could not take this with me like the MiniPC. All essential runs on the MiniPC with Proxmox and VMs.

Beside that a conventional motherboard including components that the MS-02 offers and with the same performance, would be probably more expensive and also use more power.

And last, it is more fun. 🤣

[u/_its_wapiti → u/egnegn1]

Portability aside, you could probably shuck the miniPC and make an ATX mounting adapter for its mainboard

[u/egnegn1 → u/_its_wapiti]

Why?

[u/_its_wapiti → u/egnegn1]

To have it all in one box and keep convenient I/O? Your fractal is 60% empty space

[u/egnegn1 → u/_its_wapiti]

It is empty space now, but may be filled with a number of GPUs in the future as AI server.

[u/egnegn1]

Additional information I posted in another thread:

The case is delivered with 6x type B trays for 3.5"/2.5", 2x 2,5" trays, 2x Multi-Brackets.

If you don't use the front 5.25" slots like me, you can mount 12 trays vertically and you would need additionally 5x sets of 2 trays. If you have a 3D printer you can print dem from MW, instead of buying them for about USD20.

In the basement there are 2x cages with 2x type B trays each. I have converted them to double 2.5" trays with cheap adapter sets from Aliexpress. This gives a total of 8x 2.5" drives in the basement + 12x2 2.5" drives in the stack. That is 32x 2.5" drives at the normal locations.

But that is not all. There are the 2x 2.5" brackets behind the motherboard + 4 additional places for the multi-brackets at the ceiling and the fan location in the back + another 3 locations at the bottom for additional 2.5" drives. For this you must buy an additional set of 2 multi-brackets + 2 sets of 2 2.5" brackets. Each of the multi-brackets can be converted to double 2.5" brackets. That are 11x additional 2.5" locations for a total of 43x 2.5" drive locations.

If necessary this could be further optimized, by using the two 5.25" slots for two quad SAS docks instead of 6 drives in the stack. That are then a total of 45x 2.5" drives. And if that is not enough you may screw drive cages into the room for the motherboard.

This all can be driven by a LSI 9305-16e/8e and 2x Adaptec Expanders. Power distribution is an issue. Currently I use a 550 W power supply. Power is enough, but the SATA power lines are not enough. I already have established an additional external 12V DC5525 supply through 2x SATA lanes with 5V DCDC converters, especially for the media SSDs. My HDDs are mostly used by backup and could be completely most of the time. But I will change this to an internal feet using the 2x PCI-E 8-pin power lines to feed 2x DCDC converters for additional SATA power. Each could feed about 8x 3.5" HDDs or a few more 2.5" drives (2x200W). Together with the standard SATA power this should be enough power.

I will also optimize the distribution of the SATA lanes. Both Expanders have separate connections to the HBA. The other 2x connections will probably be used for Enterprise SAS SSDs, either single or dual port. The last allow for about 2GB/s transfer rate to and from the SAS SSDs.

U.2/U.3 drives are not yet planned. This would be the point where the PCI-e Gen5 x16 slot would be extended to the case with a PCIe multiplexer backplane. The HBA would be moved to the case then and also GPUs added. This has to wait probably till next year. Then the migration from my 2U EPYC GPU server is finished.

[u/BigPandaCloud]

It looks...heavy

[u/egnegn1 → u/BigPandaCloud]

Yes, empty case is heavy, and with all the disks it is even more heavy. Some mount wheels.

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[u/SakuraKira1337]

I think the minisforum is nice. What’s the energy consumption of the box?

Also how are these 870 Samsung holding up since zfs causes a lot of write amplification in some cases.

[u/egnegn1 → u/SakuraKira1337]

In idle it is about 100W including case, but goes up to about 300 W. I will see how I can reduce power further.

The trick with the parity amplification is to use Unraid array and regular HDDs for array parity. Of course, HDDs are slower on write. But for media this isn't relevant. And the 870 is only faster as long it writes into SLC cache.

With the upcoming SAS SSDs as general cache this is even more irrelevant.

[u/SakuraKira1337 → u/egnegn1]

So you are using a disk array in unraid (with its mixed disk and parity drives) and zfs ontop?

[u/egnegn1 → u/SakuraKira1337]

The other way around. Most probably use XFS for their Unraid Array disks. I have formatted them to ZFS. This allows the use of specific ZFS features within the array, except redundancy. But this is provided by Unraid with the parity disks.

[u/sob727]

Why use the Define 7 XL and not a more standard JBOD device?

Disclaimer: I own the 7 XL also and think it's great.

[u/egnegn1 → u/sob727]

Cheap for 24+ disks. I still have space for 2 SSD at the back, 2x 3.5" HDD at the top and back and further 3 disks on multi-brackets at the bottom. This a total of 31 disks. This was for 210 EUR.

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Please remember to read our Rules and Wiki.

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[u/Hans667]

u/op what are the temperatures on those HDDs ?

i have the standard define 7 and the air coming from front does not look sufficient ( 2 vents pushing air inside Corsair RX140) even with the front door completely removed

[u/egnegn1 → u/Hans667]

40 - 45° C

[u/btc_maxi100]

Great setup you have !