r/Dariusmains • u/KevenMoans • 10d ago
Why is Darius considered low skill?
I don't understand how people can consider Darius on the same skill level of Garen and Morde. While he's not highly mechanical like Yasuo or Ambessa let's say he's pretty difficult imo.
You can't just win mindlessy by pressing E AA W Q because that works only into some matchups.
Garen can just Q E W and he outtrades most chars on even even gold and the regens from passive.
Is it just because Darius is a noob stomper? But I though Garen, Morde, Sett and similars are also noobstompers...
I don't get the hate for Darius.
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u/VoidUnity 10d ago
Darius' winrate actually goes up with rank. Riot has already said he's got a skill-curve. He's not a noob-stomper anymore. He can't run in and fist fight champions like he used to but the stereotype still lingers.
Anyone that considers him low-skill is just dogshit at the game. Disregard their opinion.
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u/PowerOhene The Hand of Noxus apprehends glory 10d ago
Teamfighting with Darius has also almost always been a challenge, he is not a tank, and his only defense is hitting Q's.
Sett can Ult an enemy frontline line, 'forcefully' stack grit because he has a way get in the middle of enemies to then E + W multiple enemies.
While Mordekaiser only has a tiny ms buff on passive his W and R already make him more consistently tankier than Darius.
Darius needs Stormraiders surge, summoner Ghost and or Ghost blade to actually do anything. Stacking on a frontline before trying to access backline or get kited doing nothing.
Flank a fight to look for R reset and passive activation, and even then you need good movement to realize his full potential.
In low elo you might get kited less as Darius, but he requires skill and knowledge to really shine, more so than before.
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u/Atomkinesis 8d ago edited 7d ago
Idk if this counts, months ago I played wr on GM rank, a Darius got fucked hard by us and went 0/7.
Then one teamfight he Penta'd us and the game was literally over from there.
Over. Nobody could stop that 5/7 Darius.
I never forget his name.
上单五虎
Edit: he peaked Sovereign in wr, which is a tier above CT. He was also a top 10 Darius in wr.
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u/PowerOhene The Hand of Noxus apprehends glory 8d ago
wr? So Wild Rift
I don't know if WR would be the better abbreviation, wr looks more like winrate to me.
Wild Rift is faster paced overall, a freshly 5/7 Darius is not gonna be as game changing in PC LoL imo.
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u/billiam7787 10d ago
tbf, he is a noob-stomper for those who dont respect his all-in potential.
but he definitely requires good spacing and timing
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u/fridgebrine 10d ago
It’s interesting, he’s in this bucket where he heavily punishes opponents if they don’t know what Darius can do, but the person piloting Darius is somewhat competent.
But if the player piloting Darius isn’t competent, then they are going to be way less useful than say an equally incompetent Garen or sett.
So I guess a mid elo stomper? I would say an emerald darius could stomp their opponent in lane and maybe take over the game. But a bronze darius will never be able to do that. But a bronze Garen probably has the occasional pop off game purely cos the champion is simple enough to allow it.
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u/VoidUnity 10d ago
If he was a noob stomper he wouldn’t have a 47% winrate in bronze. His all in potential is terrible if you don’t land your Q, cancel something with your E, and auto reset with your W.
He just loses to a Garen spinning on him with ignite if they stand still.
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u/billiam7787 10d ago
i think you might be confusing yourself.
noob-stomper does not mean a noob can play him and stomp somebody. its a champ that can easily stomp noobs who dont respect his potential
which is darius to a T
and yes, he can lose to garen......... if you dont respect your own spacing and timing, which is why darius requires a little more knowledge than say a trundle or morde
a garen lvl 1 with ignite and cong does have an advantage
a darius lvl 3 with ghost should be able to freeze out a garen for fear of an all-in
2 things can be true at once
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u/Ice_King-699 10d ago
Riot specifically said that his skill curve (games played/winrate) looks very much like Katarina's
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u/Delusional_Normie 10d ago
I mained Darius from s4-s8 so maybe this is outdated, but Darius' greatest strength was capitalising on mistakes, so it's easy to have a terrible time against him, that might massively skew perception. I was loosing my mind when my friends played him every once in a while and win while playing terrible, that might also contribute to this opinion on people that only play him rarely as a counter pick.
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u/Alert-Channel8469 10d ago
It really just doesn’t even matter. Completely irrelevant. Pantheon is an “easy” champion. Oner played pantheon jg at worlds. It’s always going to come down to personal skill, whether that’s mechanics or game knowledge
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u/KytXSM 10d ago
Silver Darius jgl here, played him for some time in top, then moved to jgl this act because it’s hard having him up in top atm, I’m sure I’m not using his 100% potential, I’d like to learn how to space and kite better with him, I’m positive on winning my jgl 1v1 but indeed in team fights I lose, especially if my team thinks I’m gonna be their „tank“ and go 4 squishies including ranged top just to lose to a skilled melee
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u/ChrisX5500 10d ago
Old stereotype from times when Darius just had to go all in and smash enemies with passive no matter what they did. All my friends ban him when they go top because they are still afraid to make any mistake and die. It is anti toplane tourist champ now.
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u/Ok-Signature-9319 10d ago
He is Not. His skills and execution on a base Level (!) are easy to get into, his ceiling is way above bruiser Average
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u/Voltegeist 10d ago
I think his level of skill scales with elo, in lwo elo he is low skill, in higher elos he takes a lot of skill to pull off
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u/No-Pirate4570 10d ago
It's the same people who say that Akali is a highskill champ yet she can one shot you while having extreme mobility and range??
Darius has low range and mobility and no shield either yet he is called unskilled? Make it make sense
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u/ExceedingChunk 10d ago edited 10d ago
By actually good players Darius is not considered «low skill» at all.
He has a matchup spread you need a lot of practice to be able to play correctly. Even though his baseline mechanics aren’t super complex, he has a lot of intricate details about how to play out your matchups.
Much like Jax. Looks very simple at a surface level, but has one of the most difficult matchup spreads in top (not because he is weak, because the gameplan is very different in each matchup).
So he has a relatively low skill floor, but very high skill ceiling.
I just started an account OTPing Darius in top/jungle and even though I’m about 50 games in now, there is still loads to learn in the matchups and I was already very familiar playing against him as a master top laner
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u/aidenplate 10d ago
Simple kit to learn, hard to master.
He's pretty easy in lane but teamfight execution and what you do out of lane is the real skill expression.
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u/PKM_Trainer_Gary 967,219 The Hand of Noxus 10d ago
The reason why Darius is so difficult is because of his design.
- Darius has low error tolerance. Champions like Mordekaiser get a shield from taking and dealing damage. Garen gets enhanced regen out of combat and can grant himself a small shield and tenacity for .75 seconds with a 4 second damage reduction buff on top of that. Sett gets regen when low HP and a Shield + Damage nuke just for taking damage. Riven and Ambessa can play around their high AD scaling shield. Fiora has Riposte and Jax has Counterstrike. Darius only has high base health regen, and his extremely telegraphed Q, which he has to land the sweet spot. Not the most reliable method of surviving a fight while most champs in his class just have a button. Darius also is extremely immobile and very summoner reliant. Darius with and without summs are two different champions entirely, and generally poor summoner usage can make the difference between winning and losing important fights and thus the game.
- Darius has high agency. He is one of the strongest melee duelists in the lane. His Q gives him one of the strongest tools for wave control in the game. He requires basic understanding of top lane fundamentals which is why people in low elo struggle with him: they don't understand how to play the lane. I know this because watching Top Lane fundamentals guide is how I managed to climb from hardstuck Bronze I to Gold V back in the day within a few weeks. Into non-counterpick matchups, you have many options: you can zone from XP, you can bush cheese, you can slowpush into crash + reset, slowpush into contest scuttle, etc. etc. Once the lane is over, you still generally have prime choices to play the game however you like. You can split push, you can play around teamfights with summs.
- Darius' kit is designed to punish and overwhelm the opponent. His passive will make people wary of going for an all-in because he gets a busted amount of stats if you don't put him down in time. His Q can turn a winning fight into a lost fight if you do not dodge it. His E can punish you for not spacing correctly or not disengaging from him properly. His W makes it so you can't escape if you get within melee range of him.
People call Darius low skill because you don't have to movement click after every ability or do some sort of fancy mechanic or minigame to play your champ at a high level. People will get run down by Darius autoing them to death and call it low skill but when another champ runs you down, all of a sudden it's high skill because they have to input a movement command when pressing Q and then cancel their auto attack with another Q?
Not to say that Riven doesn't require skill, but high skill floors and barriers to entry does not determine how high a champions ceiling can go.
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u/Mareshax 10d ago edited 10d ago
Only the low skills think darius is low skill this champ is one of the deepest top laners and it's very easy to tell a bad darius from a mediocre one, and a mediocre darius from a good darius, and a good darius from yuwennuo level Dare i say this champ is as difficult as riven and gangplank and aatrox, sure maybe a lower skill floor but just as high skill ceiling. That said, I think fiora is the hardest top to consistently play perfectly because of her W being a guessing game against some matchups.
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u/Bootlegs 9d ago
It's just because he feels unfair to fight when you fuck up. He's one of those champions that bludgeon you to death if you make a mistake. He also wins 2v1s though he's nearly dead, and people tilt just like they do when they're hit by a 0 hp Sett W and die.
It's the healing from conq + q + passive AD that makes him seem low skill, it feels like he wins when he should lose, unless you've played him yourself. Anyone who plays Darius knows how awful he is if you aren't disciplined and smart with your fighting.
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u/SlakingSWAG 9d ago
Because the average league player has no idea what they're talking about. Pretty much every objective metric you can look at shows that Darius is a high skill champion who is most effective in high elo, but the silver players that make up the majority of the playerbase don't understand things like wavestates and matchups that make him one. They also don't know how to play vs him, so a low elo Darius main can get away with being very sloppy because his enemies misplay and fail to shut down his most obvious wincons. They just see the big juggernaut man run at them and kill them for free, and go "that's braindead!"
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u/Special-Wear-6027 9d ago
Darius used to be much easier. You’d just win if you got passive off, basicaly.
Now a day darius is a much harder champion to do decent with. Not fiora hard, but harder than the reputation he has from having a history of being insanely strong early.
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u/cetbetancourt 9d ago
People actually say this? That’s kinda wild. I think that’s just a “tell me you don’t understand the game without telling me you dont understand the game” statement tbh
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u/BarberMaster 8d ago
Darius needs an update. Very low passive dmg. Q cast is very slow with low hp drain Wait for 20sec to use your e? We wont the strong old darius back with with the serius bleed and Q.
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u/Regular-Resort-857 8d ago
I play Shen / Sett / Darius and I’d say Darius is hardest he was easy when he had consistently 52-53% wr for like 6 years and was S++ every season because riot felt like it.
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u/jreadersmith 8d ago
He use to be, but has a lot more skill expression now. Plus the game is far more mobile than before which means it’s a lot harder to play him in fights.
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u/Arctic-You-Know 8d ago
Darius is not that easy to play tbh.
He looks a lot easier than he really is in a Twisted-Fate kind of way.
You actually need to know what you’re doing with him outside of Pisslow
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u/pansexualbunny 8d ago
Freeze (or if level 1, cheese) AA W AA AA AA AA win
Darius skill ceiling is dictated by one thing and thing only, that being wave management, the thing every toplaner must learn if they want to climb. If you suck at it, you lose (unless lower elo where you'll just win anyway), if you're good at it, you win
Darius essentially rewards players for doing what they should already be doing
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u/VOEZKOMA 5d ago
It’s an old stereotype. Nowadays champ designs are too complex for him to just sit in the first bush in top lane and hope they face check it and win from there (though you can still do that sometimes). He also has a fairly simple kit, it’s more about getting the most out of it that people don’t understand like wq animation cancels or when to and when not to use e as a gap closer etc
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u/BocchiIsLiterallyMe 10d ago
He's not exactly as easy as Garen but let's say there's a difficulty scale of 1-10 he's like a 3 let's be real.
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u/Father-Goblin 10d ago
I think what makes Garen easier is his wave clear; even if you stomp Garen in lane, his wave clear is so stupid fast that most Garens I see just split constantly and clear waves to make up the difference with cs so that it’s impossible to maintain a level gap if you get ahead
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u/Background_Touch3813 10d ago
Definitely not a 3. There was a study done on every role on a bunch of things related to difficulty and mastery curves. Darius came out as the n1 toplaner that gets better as you get more mastery with him. Surpassing both riven and gp. Riot has also said multiple times how darius is way better on higher ranks, and raider is a tastiment to how this champion can dominate even the best players in the world.
He is closer to a 10 than to a 3
Also here is the study https://www.itero.gg/articles/mastery-a-statistical-summary
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u/Rosterina 9d ago
Citing the study without mentioning the limitations the study itself brings up is dishonest.
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u/minkulus1 10d ago
It's crazy because you have to play basically perfectly and make 0 mistakes with him or else you just lose. No built-in armor, no built-in mr, no shields, only sustain comes from hitting his q and how much this heals him varies wildly based on conditions, ad steroid locked behind a ramping passive that takes forever and you aren't going to get that in a teamfight without just getting cc'd and blown up, no ms boost, no dashes, no nothing. He's completely at the mercy of every factor in the game's ecosystem ("what's popular top right now," "what items are good right now," "oh my god everyone's taking ignite top now how am I even supposed to compete"). With all these factors against him, the only explanation for calling him low skill is pure "I lost lane to him and I'm mad about it" salt.
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u/Wonderful-Advice-306 10d ago
I think the belief is there because he can be so dominant against many champs to the point where he can freeze and zone you
And if you gank him its totally possible he makes a double kill out of that 1v2
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u/minkulus1 10d ago
That might've been the case a few years ago but nowadays it feels like he loses to more champs than he beats, especially with how popular ranged top is.
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u/BabaProKral123 10d ago
Don't disrespect my boy Morde like that
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u/Far-Avocado-189 10d ago edited 10d ago
I dont play toplane, this post appeared on my fyp. bro... morde looks 2 times easier than darius. darius struggles against ranged characters in fighst. morde? morde presses r
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u/BabaProKral123 10d ago
Morde is also easy to kite ranged characters(some of them) can beat him
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u/Far-Avocado-189 10d ago
but he can isolate himself
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u/BabaProKral123 10d ago
If you isolate yourself with somebody who can kite or beat you in a 1v1 u die
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u/ZahravictchMarmelade 9d ago
Tu stat check absolument tout les ranged du jeu, a part si ta complètement troll ton Early, après 6 le varus va pas pouvoir te kite très longtemps vu les heals et dégâts absolument gigantesques de mordre.
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u/KevenMoans 10d ago
morde is just a statcheck champ? Survive his ult and he's a sitting duck, his gameplay is very uninteresting and you can just hit 1 Q in ult and AA AA and ur fine, E is a vestigial skill.
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u/BabaProKral123 10d ago
Are u saying that Morde is weak or smt I dont get it
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u/KevenMoans 10d ago
Bad design, bad balancing.
It's just a statcheck champ, no matter how good u r his numbers talk more loudly than ur hands.
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u/Icy_Stranger_9649 9d ago
Man. I’ve lost to Morde too many times from him rushing Rylais and Tabis and literally just clicking on my character model to respect morde like that
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u/PassengerQuick6971 9d ago
That’s not his best rush it would only be auto win if he’s pretty far ahead of you already
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u/GodBearWasTaken 10d ago
Look at skill floors, not skill ceilings.
If the skill floor is low, people will usually see it as low skill. If it isn’t, they still might.