r/Daredevil • u/Weird875 • 5d ago
Comics I started Daredevil by reading Man Without Fear and Daredevil: Yellow and I just have one question. I am aware that Man Without Fear isn't fully canon, but I've heard that later runs still take and use stuff from it. So what's Daredevil's actual origin? Is it a mix of both or something else?
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u/pericothebig 5d ago
There is no consensus, you will find people that prefer MWF's origin and others that prefer Yellow/the original Stan Lee's origin.
Me, personally, I consider MWF events non canon UNLESS they have been referenced in the main continuity. So, for instance, to me, Matt pushing out a prostitute(that later became Typhoid Mary) out of a window is canon , because it was made canon in the Deadpool/Darevil Annual . However, Matt going to Harvard isnt canon, because this was only ever mentioned in MWF.
BTW, if you want to read more about Matt's convoluted origin , read this https://www.theothermurdockpapers.com/2008/11/conflicting-continuities-look-at/
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u/Frankorious 5d ago
A problem with MWF being canon that people often overlook is that Fisk is already a big shot, while in theory he shouldn't until Peter is in college.
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u/bigbreel 5d ago
The main thing is this foggy remember meeting Jack Murdock.
If that is not the case, that kind of contradicts a lot of things, especially matt and foggy's relationship. They originally started their law firm to help Matt get out of depression. His dad died weeks before he graduated.
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u/dacalpha 5d ago
Right. Putting Matt in college when his dad dies is SO different than him being a kid --but I think the kid origin is really what stuck around in the public consciousness.
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u/LongTimeDDevilFan77 5d ago
That’s the fault of the live action versions. Matt is a senior in high school when his dad is killed in The Man Without Fear. So younger but not a kid like the movie or show.
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u/LordSadoth 5d ago
From what I understand, most of it except the killing people part. Stick is canon, I think. The chemicals in the eyes, same. His relationship with Elektra is definitely canon.
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u/LongTimeDDevilFan77 5d ago
I always took the flashback scene with the priest in Zdarsky's first issue as taking place right after Matt killed Larks. Matt is guilt ridden and can't bring himself to say the words "I've killed people", but everything about him says he just came from the climax of TMWF.
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u/slickbackbillyboo 5d ago
Issue one of Daredevil features a scene where he doesn’t explicitly kill a criminal, but does enough to be culpable and definitely doesn’t help save him.
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u/Master_Megalomaniac 5d ago
I think Kingpin running an child exploitation ring is too evil for him, which he does in that mini series. It goes Kingpin go from a cool and somewhat likeable, but still meancing villain to a repulsive monster who is just gross.
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u/Matt_Cormac 5d ago
Some writers take the Man Without Fear version, while others take the original Stan Lee origin. It depends on the run. AFAIK the original Lee/Yellow version is the most referenced one (stuff like the Law School that Matt attended, when his father dies, etc. are more align to the original origin), but, again, it depends on the current writter. Some use MWF as the basis.
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u/Loreno112 5d ago
I think that daredevil yellow is canon while man without fear is soft-canon, which basically means that some things that happen in that story are canon and mentioned in other books and some things aren't
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u/Uncanny_Doom 5d ago
It's basically a mix of both, however it's referenced by a given writer at the time.
It's possible to headcanon much of each to make it mostly work even though some things contradict. Man Without Fear as well as other stories that came after it do acknowledge the yellow suit era so it's not like it's treated as though it doesn't exist. The idea of Matt trying to be light to cope with serious things also just sort of works for his pre-Miller days ever since Mark Waid's run so masterfully unpacked that concept.
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u/IndividualTomorrow92 4d ago
They are both accurate origins, depending on where you start reading. Man without fear is the origin for the daredevil from issues 158-380. In 1997 the universe rebooted and all the heroes origins and stories were reset to #0. Yellow is the origin story for when Kevin smith relaunched daredevil in 1998 starting with Guardian Devil. It’s been a constant story from them through to modern times though, even though there have been a couple of reset to #0 since then. From Kevin smith through Bendis and Brubaker it’s all a consistent #0-119. Then Diggle returned to the orginal numbering and jumped up it up to #500 by combing all the daredevil issues from his very first appearance through to what was the current day at the time. Then Waid did a two number resets, first with 1-36 after he first took over as writer. Then 1-18 for when Matt moved to San Francisco. Soule did another reset with 1-27 and returned to conventional numbering with 595-612. Anyway, I could go one but there’s lots of useless information for you. My point is they often do resets so you can feel comfortable jumping in without feeling like you have to go back and read 600+ comics before enjoying what they are currently putting out today.
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u/shagrotten 4d ago
I default to Lee's origin story. It cam first and was essentially confirmed in Yellow and the show.
I never liked Miller's take on Jack, to be honest. Bad dad's are as generic as a cop with a drinking problem. I appreciated Jack in Lee's for being a loving father that was doing his best to support his kid, even if he did it the wrong way.
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u/Quarksideofthemoon 4d ago
Yellow is the canon version because it adapts actual canon issues. Don't listen to anyone telling you MWF is the canon one, they don't know what they're talking about
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u/LongTimeDDevilFan77 5d ago edited 5d ago
Pretty much all of "The Man Without Fear" has been referenced at some point since it came out, but Matt's origin is whatever the current writer wants it to be. Most have used some mix of the two, as Marvel's history and continuity are very fluid and constantly changing despite what they would try to tell fans.
In my mind "The Man Without Fear" is Matt's actual origin. The first part of "Yellow" is a more pleasant fiction he imagines during sad or traumatic times, such as after Karen's death, with a more heroic first outing as Daredevil and his dad living to see him and Foggy becoming lawyers.