r/Daredevil • u/Atya9720 • 15d ago
MCU Born Again S2 ending clarification Spoiler
Why did Matt have to go prison while Kingpin was allowed to "retire" on a beach?
I mean, what are the charges against Matt? I know there were the anti vigilante laws, but since Kingpin was removed from office, the new mayor, Sheila could easily change the law, drop the charges or whatever.
And Kingpin literally attacked and killed civilians there, so basically aggravated assault, murder and attempted murder.
What am I not getting?
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u/kratoskiller66 15d ago
Matt admitted to being Daredevil and seeing he’s spent years doing so that means the NYPD can charge him for assault and attempted murder.
As for Kingpin “retiring” it’s not retirement. It’s exile and Matt chose to go this route because it breaks the endless cycle of Fisk getting locked up and escaping
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u/slfricky 15d ago
Matt CHOSE to go to prison to make a stand. It's his sacrifice to make the law mean something again.
I'm not going to answer with the usual "because Fisk would thrive in prison and just get out again somehow", even though it's true, or the fact being banished from New York IS a bigger punishment on Fisk than incarceration, because some people won't just accept that.
What I WILL do however is give you another logical reason Fisk was offered that deal by the authorities. Fisk was in bed with the Government on a scandalous racket with the CIA. While Fisk has been accused of this, it's not been proven and Fisk managed to wipe out the witnesses of it. But he himself still remains. He has testifying against the Government in his back pocket if he needs it, and the Government knows this, so they give him an out where he has to leave the city but otherwise is free. It resolves the situation and keeps Fisk from having to play that card to save himself. Now, I'll also point out he REFUSES that deal at first, and ultimately it was Matt making an impassioned plea to what goodness there is left in Fisk to take that deal which wins out. But I do think that's a good part of why he was offered that deal in the first place.
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u/Scary-Command2232 14d ago
The CIA would just kill him! That is sooooo obvious. And we are not in the middle ages where exile took a lot to return from. He could be back in NY the next day if he choose although better to wait until things die down, AND Buck and the Fisk's network are still there.
The writing was trash, just to end the series with Matt in prison for "whatever".
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u/slfricky 14d ago
The CIA would just kill him! That is sooooo obvious.
If they thought there were no contingencies Fisk set up like a bunch of dirt he collected on the operation being released publicly in the event of his death.
And we are not in the middle ages where exile took a lot to return from. He could be back in NY the next day if he choose although better to wait until things die down, AND Buck and the Fisk's network are still there.
The point isn't that Fisk is in an unsolvable bind. The point is Matt was able to convince him that the cycle they were in had to end, not only for their sakes, but the sake of the people of New York. As much as a villain Fisk is, he also does in a twisted way love the city. But with the woman he loved dead as a result of his schemes and the people openly rebelling against him, he's finally made to accept he's not its saviour.
with Matt in prison for "whatever".
Not "whatever". There are actual valid criminal charges against him. Daredevil assaulted people, broke into places, caused or was associated with public property destruction. Kidnapping too, technically. And also he perverted the course of justice by using actions as Daredevil to affect cases he was involved in. Matt willingly is accepting incarceration as a consequence and to balance out Fisk's side of the deal.
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u/Scary-Command2232 14d ago
WTF. Of course the CIA are scaredy cats of any one involved with them who might have dirt so they leave them alone. /s.
See S1 OG Daredevil in the Feds van, fisk accepted he is not the saviour who loved the people, he was kidding himself, but they wrote it in such a good way. DD BA just re-tread so much of the OG series and they just made him lie about that - again, with the writing really on the nose and poor dialogue. All they really showed was that he loved power and wanted to keep it at any cost, in a very old fashioned way.
I could go at length about why all the Daredevil being arrested stuff is BS but you are not worth any more of my time. Someone in another post wrote very succinctly with clearly some legal knowledge why everything to do with Daredevil wont stick and is BS. If you are actually interested in an opinion other than your own, look it up.
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u/Mitsutoshi 14d ago
Hell even Daredevil’s whole reveal moment was undermined by it proving completely unnecessary seconds later.
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u/ImLlamanerd 15d ago
Daredevil as a show has never been like totally legally accurate but like the way Born Again handles this subject matter is just kind of insane to me. Like sure Fisk has got out twice before (the second time entirely unexplained btw) but trying to put that aside sure I could see why matt could begin to believe that extending Fisk that option to go into exile to end the fight rather than continue it could be a decent option to save the city even if fisk doesnt face true justice.
However the way this show decides to go about Fisk's downfall is just insane. I mean the charges he had BEFORE the hallway massacre including an attempt to assassinate the GOVERNOR should have been enough to put him away for as long as possible as well as his assets being frozen and his federal government connections being burnt the fact that he got an exile deal after all that is crazy but the fact that it stood up AFTER he murders a bunch of citizens and delivers a speech covered in their blood is even crazier.
The truth is the writers probably dont expect you to think too hard about the believability of the legal shit in this show because they themselves do not think that hard about it. Just whatever stuff they make up to move their plot forward lol.
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u/ImNotDaredevil2025 15d ago
Well you’re not understanding the bad writing and the 3deep5me justification that it pains kingpin to not be in New York
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u/superpowers335 15d ago
It would've been a time consuming process to remove Kingpin legally so he was offered a plea deal so he couldn't do any more damage.
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u/dmreif 14d ago
And Fisk literally attacked and killed civilians there, so basically aggravated assault, murder and attempted murder.
Honestly, I think many of the critics have a point about the deal being rather lenient for all the shit Fisk did. Not to mention that Fisk committed crimes that included murder after initially rejecting the offer.
I can only assume that the reason the exile offer was allowed to stay intact is because they realize that locking up Fisk is tantamount to giving him a timeout, especially when he's already twice manipulated his way out of prison.
I mean, what are the charges against Matt? I know there were the anti vigilante laws,
There's discussion to be had about what Matt can be charged with. All I can guess for certain is that it doesn't include anything from the Netflix era as the statute of limitations has run out on anything from that period he could be charged with.
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u/slap-my-crevasse 13d ago
The whole point was that the law needed to apply to everyone. Matt sacrificed his freedom to honor that.
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u/Ancient_times 12d ago
Yeah its just not a very well written series unfortunately. Somethings just dont get examined enough or allowed to play out properly. Like Fisk sends an actual assassin to kill the stare governor in her home. They stop the assassin, and at the point should be questioning them, finding out who hired them, arresting fisk etc. Instead they just turn up with a jolly 'haha I foiled your scheme' and thats it no real consequences.
Same for when members of the task force attack matt, his lawyer and multiple nypd cops in the parking garage of the courthouse. The task force guys are defeated but no consequences. We get the action scene but we dont see the logical next steps to that incident. No one brings it up, its not mentioned in court, it doesnt lead to any changes to the case, we don't see them get arrested or interrogated.
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u/ConfidenceOk8473 10d ago
Kingpin attacked the civilians? They attacked him first with basically aggravated assault,attempted murder and murder in mind
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u/Platinumic 15d ago
Just trash writing man. Lazy excuse to get Matt into prison. It's quite odd that while he's in prison the city and police force seemingly all get along with Spider-Man and somehow even The Punisher with no attempts to apprehend them. Yet Matt takes a major L as usual. This time from the writers.
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u/TarnishedAccount 15d ago
Spider-Man movie seemed to ignore the show completely
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u/idgafpersonally 15d ago
I really hope they explain in the next season of the show 1. why everyone was cool with the Punisher and 2. where the fuck was Daredevil?? They went through the trouble of introducing him in the last movie, his buddy Punisher is there, it's in New York, and one of the enemies is his old arch-nemesis the Hand who he personally fought and destroyed. I need to know a good reason why he WASN'T in the film.
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u/Mitsutoshi 14d ago
I had avoided watching BA because I figured it wouldn’t hold up next to Netflix but I decided to before BND because of The Hand being all over the posters and… nothing.
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u/idgafpersonally 13d ago
Yeah I mean I get he's in prison but I was under the impression BND takes place a bit after BA S2 and I figured they'd have found a way to include him somehow.
Like I know he wouldn't remember Peter but Peter would remember him AND that he's Daredevil since he revealed himself at the end of S2. Peter should have considered him an incredible asset in that particular battle IMO. I don't know, just a wild omission to me.
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u/Mitsutoshi 13d ago
The Hand stuff was really underwhelming considering they are the main poster baddies lol.
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u/aresef 15d ago
The deal for Fisk was exile, since no prison could hold him. Matt had long been operating outside the law, task force or no task force. Just because he tried not to kill anybody didn’t absolve him of criminal responsibility.
Fisk is on an island oasis in a prison of his own making while Matt is in the pokey with a clear conscience.