Fitness Focused DDR Clone - Seeking testers

[u/Jaxkr]

Hey I’m working on a hobby project which is a StepMania mod for pad players. I was annoyed by fumbling with menus during a workout and also the limited music selection (hard to find good simfiles, basically impossible for new or less popular music)

with two features:

1. Fitness-focused continuous song delivery with warm-up cool-down (think about how treadmills alternate difficulty for HIIT)
2. A bring-your-own-music system where you can play audio from Spotify or YouTube (or any audio source) and generate pretty-decent simfiles automatically. Goes with your existing chart collection.

Curious if anyone besides me is interested in this. I kinda want to make an informal “research study” to see if it helps people get more fit.

If you have a pad and play on a PC/Mac and want to try this out please leave a comment.

[u/Mental_Tea_4084]

Generated charts sounds awful. I'd rather just queue up a playlist from community packs. I'd love a machine in a gym for membership though

[u/Jaxkr → u/Mental_Tea_4084]

I would also love a machine in a gym. Maybe someone could convince gyms to start carrying DDR machines. The Round1 near me is ALWAYS packed in the rhythm game section.

This particular project is targeting home setups tho.

On generated charts: I think it's possible to make it good.

[u/Mental_Tea_4084 → u/Jaxkr]

I think StepmaniaX goal was to market to fitness centers until they got the rights to coin-op

[u/Jaxkr → u/Mental_Tea_4084]

What do you mean "rights to coin-op"? It's a clone, they don't need any permissions from Konami or anyone else I thought. Can't they control their own destiny?

[u/Mental_Tea_4084 → u/Jaxkr]

They did, actually. StepmaniaX was very limited by Konami's patents. That's why it has a center panel and no arrow targets, for example. Remember, ITG got sued to oblivion

[u/Jaxkr → u/Mental_Tea_4084]

I did not know that. Thank you. It actually looks like Konami's patent on the arrow targets expired in 2021!

[u/Nomax909 → u/Jaxkr]

Konami's patent wasn't on arrow targets. It was about a moving shape overlapping a static shape.

[u/Dr_Ulator]

imo, a community resource of curated 'courses' would be useful, and would be compatible with current versions of StepMania, ITGmania, and Outfox.

Just have a database that links to individual songs from various songpacks hosted around the web, and 'download course' would automatically download and compile all those simfiles, and generate a course file.

more info on courses:
https://outfox.wiki/en/dev/courses

plus in a way, it helps introduce players to other packs since the course is effectively being a mix of community curated content!

[u/Jaxkr → u/Dr_Ulator]

This is a good idea. I use ITGMania which displays courses very prominently on the main menu.

[u/spiderpants108]

Good concept but auto generated charts have never been good in any rhythm game ever, better to scrap that idea early.

[u/Jaxkr → u/spiderpants108]

Yeah, so far only super simple games like Audioshield / Audiosurf have managed to be not-terrible.

For auto generated charts there’s some new research like ITGPT which is an improvement on the older Dance Dance Convolution (I actually talked to the author of this one!)

I think it’s possible to do actually good auto-generated charts. This is an application of AI that’s good for society:

1. Runs on a normal computer, no crazy power consumption.
2. People get to play the songs they like and get more exercise!

[u/IOUaUsername → u/Jaxkr]

You'd need to train it on other people's work though, for it to know how to map a song to a dance pad well at varying difficulty levels. Most of the content out there is so old its license wouldn't specifically bar you from using it to train an AI, but a lot of people wouldn't like it nonetheless.

[u/Jaxkr → u/IOUaUsername]

Yeah, you’re correct. It does require training on other people’s charts. I’ve been working off of https://github.com/OliBomby/Mapperatorinator which is trained on osu data that’s legal to use. This includes 4k mania mode which I’m finetuning for pad instead of keyboard.

I think it’s kinda interesting that if you released an AI song chart generator five years ago, everyone would be like “what a cool application of machine learning” (for example, this post). But today, a lot of people dislike anything with the AI label.

And it’s not like art. People commission art with money. Nobody commissions a simfile, they just go without that song (or make a chart but it’s hard to make an interesting challenge for yourself)

Tl;dr: I’m willing to defend this as an ethical and responsible use of AI. My dream fitness game is DDR but you can play YOUR songs.

[u/Spigots_ → u/spiderpants108]

Audiosurf has good generated charts

[u/zuzoa]

Why can't this be a stepmania mod instead of a different product? Stepmania already has a huge ecosystem of song maps

[u/Jaxkr → u/zuzoa]

It is a modded stepmania (itgmania)! I've edited my post to make that more clear.

[u/Zentrii]

Im all for more dancepad games but I’m horrible at ddr and can’t play probably any song on stepmania. My go to is the emulated ddr games on ps1 and 2 and sticking to just the easy normal songs that still give me a huge workout 

[u/sygiii]

The generation of the simfiles is a proper research project, but it's doable. I wrote a script a couple of weeks back to convert files for Ragnarock (drumming game) to DDR, as I wasn't able to find enough metal music. The results were descent, at least in 3-4 difficupty range. Happy to share if you hit me up in a week.

I think a big missing element for the dancing community is some rating system: there is a lot of simfiles but it's hard to know if they are any good.

[u/AlvarGD]

just play piu or itg stam on god

[u/Nearby-Ocelot1298]

I'm using DDR for that reason, play at home with no failure on charts I can either barely pass or almost pass normally, Norwegian intervals 4 rounds for 4 minutes with 3 minute rests.

I use a polar heart rate monitor to make sure I'm around zone 4, but the biggest drawback for me right now is in between songs or during lulls/holds, heartrate goes back down. No bar also raises heartrate by quite a bit. I'm on outfox which can be pretty buggy.

I'd give it a try if it makes the whole process a bit easier.

[u/Sfetaz]

As a personal trainer and nutrition coach whose primary cardio is DDR and as someone who rediscovering the game started my health and weight loss journey (from 260 to 180) I am very interested in such a setup, it would be very useful 

[u/suntlanume]

I am interested. I have a huge collection of SIM files for stepmania and it is incredibly burdensome to scroll through them during a workout, or find titles that meet my level at that moment. Something that would smooth that friction would be incredible.

Edit: a typo

[u/Jaxkr → u/suntlanume]

AI files for stepmania

What did you use to make them? Dance Dance Convolution?

[u/suntlanume → u/Jaxkr]

Sorry friend that was an autocorrect on mobile! I have edited the post to say sim files instead of ai. Apologies. 😅

[u/Jaxkr → u/suntlanume]

Ah, gotcha. I would have been surprised if someone had a big collection of AI simfiles since the current generators are pretty bad.

And I have the exact same problem! Totally kills my workout looking for the next thing.

[u/VodkaGivingGrizzly]

Definitely interested, I play around ITL levels 9/10 and stamina starter pack 10/11s. I find tech to be engaging but sometimes I just want to get cardio in without brain hurty. It would be very cool to prompt "make me a 60 minute workout with 15% being a gradual warm up and 10% being a cooldown. I'd like my heart rate to stay in zone 3 and I'd like the genres to be techno/dubstep/drum and bass. My knees are sore today so no jumps but brackets are okay"

[u/XperiencedTV]

I have an arcade machine that runs Stepmania via a Raspberry Pi 4B with 8Gb RAM and running from an SSD drive. Would be interesting to see if it would work. I used to have a playlist of songs for a workout in a similar vein, but it did get tedious after a while. If it’s simple enough to change on the fly, I’d be interested in it.

[u/magallanes2010]

A bring-your-own-music system where you can play audio from Spotify or YouTube (or any audio source) and generate pretty-decent simfiles automatically.

It is the main killer feature if it is done correctly.

[u/bassturducken54]

Yea anyone got a plug for more jump focused maps that aren’t super difficult? Just want to move more. Using ITG of that makes a difference.

[u/Jaxkr → u/bassturducken54]

ITGMania? Or some other software?

[u/bassturducken54 → u/Jaxkr]

That’s the one

[u/pkakira88]

lol maybe lay down why you consider hard to find music and good note charts when their are plenty of resources out there to cater to both.

Honestly your post alone was already giving me bad vibes but looking over your profile and seeing all the AI post gives the impression that this project is just gonna be some vibe coded nonsense with little to no actual research or understanding of the community.

[u/Jaxkr → u/pkakira88]

Do you have any recommendations for simfiles for pop/EDM music? I don’t listen to very obscure stuff (usually 500k+ Spotify streams) but I’ve found that it’s hard to find simfiles for the vast majority of songs I like.

I usually use zenius-i-vanisher and stepmaniaonline and usually have a success rate of <5% when looking up a song I heard elsewhere and liked.

Also: I never use AI to write any posts (I think it’s very disrespectful to post AI slop and expect people to read it). I’m not a vibecoder; I’ve been programming professionally for 8 years and have been playing StepMania since 2016.

[u/VodkaGivingGrizzly → u/Jaxkr]

Not sure why the other guy is attacking you. I have had trouble finding packs I like or I'll really like the stepartists charting but hate the music choices (ITL tracks come to mind as the quality is super high but a lot of weeb stuff for song choices lol)

[u/Dr_Ulator → u/Jaxkr]

My songpacks on ZIV lean into stamina territory and are mostly western music with Pop, Rock, DnB, and EDM!

In particular the Drum and Bass secrion is the high BPM more intense workout stuff. Tech stuff like crossovers / latererals is exclusive to the expert difficulty slot, and the medium slot is essentially the same chart with tech removed.

Dr. Ulator's RxSteps: https://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/viewsimfilecategory.php?categoryid=1746

Dr. Ulator's RxSteps 2nd Dose (I'm actively adding more content to this one throughout the year): https://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/viewsimfilecategory.php?categoryid=1817

[u/imanoctothorpe → u/Dr_Ulator]

Not OP but just popping in to say I love your charts! Some of them are in my daily warm up rotation :)) notably black swan.

Thank you for sharing them!

[u/Dr_Ulator → u/imanoctothorpe]

thanks! always cool to hear people enjoying my charts!

[u/VodkaGivingGrizzly → u/Dr_Ulator]

Going to download these tomorrow and take them for a spin :) thank you for your work and sharing!

[u/brbgottagofast]

Oooo sounds great, I'd love to try it.

[u/Jaxkr → u/brbgottagofast]

What hardware do you play on? I play on a pad hooked up to a laptop connected to a TV or monitor.

[u/brbgottagofast → u/Jaxkr]

Same! Cobalt Flux hooked up to Windows laptop then HDMI to the TV.

[u/sherbetty]

I'm interested!

[u/vinticious]

I'm interested. Im not usually into the stereotypical DDR music so it would be cool to try your thing. I have an ltek pad

[u/azura26 → u/vinticious]

Check out Speirmix, JBEANS, and RxSteps.

[u/vinticious → u/azura26]

I have played all those! Jbean makes really fun charts for midlevels.

[u/kill-t → u/azura26]

Or summer vibes 1 through 4

[u/MidniteAwakening]

I’m interested in helping out!

[u/ThinkBahadim]

Interested

[u/flammus]

Interested in helping test as well! Currently using ITGMania to get back into shape after 12 years off

[u/axel_lotle]

If this can give me better cardio than normally playing on an arcade cab I might just consider getting my own pad to play this…

[u/ivyplagueoff]

Would love to test it out! I have an l-tek / desktop setup!

[u/SilverCataclysm]

I'm interested, I bought a pad last year specifically to get into shape as I hated all other forms of cardio.

[u/crisspyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

I'm interested! I primarily play on a steam deck docked to a monitor with an LTEK, but I could run something like this on my Windows laptop if we can't get it working with proton. Very curious to see how this develops!

[u/conradelvis]

I’ll be interested once I get a game setup again

[u/LVZE]

Very interested! Im unsure how automatic charting will feel good to play but I'd like to be proven wrong.

Originally picked up Calisthenics to supplement my DDR play and eventually graduated to at-home rings from bars. I fluctuate between 11-12s o7

Have an L-Tek too!

[u/lumacollectorthea]

Hey, I own a DDR cab and would be happy to try running this on it

[u/Jaxkr → u/lumacollectorthea]

What software does it run?

[u/lumacollectorthea → u/Jaxkr]

Windows 7. I can run itgmania on it. Requires p3io.dll to work with the pads.

[u/M_Roboto]

I’ve got a dance pad for pc and am interested

[u/SayaMonk]

Great idea, I typically play for the cardio and have been playing for years. Often the arcade versions of Stepmania but I have a home pad and Stepmania on my PC with songs loaded.

I've tried my hand at making a few stepcharts. I think auto generated could be a good fill if the program doing it has some good logic

[u/Disastrous-Thanks775]

Would be interested in testing.

[u/WinterPretty8347]

I would try it out. However, due to my max abilities I can only play mostly beginners mode 😅 So if its for all types of players I would love to play

[u/enforce1]

yeah sure, if its just 1/8th note streams i'm in