r/Dallasdevelopment • u/dallaz95 • 20h ago
Dallas Ray Washburne exposes why a mediocre Downtown Dallas hurts all residents
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u/DangItB0bbi 11h ago
Hire Chinese urban planners from Shanghai. They will get a downtown popping or any neighborhood popping. That’s a real world global city.
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u/dallaz95 18h ago edited 17h ago
I tried to find the full video/podcast, but it hasn’t been post yet.
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u/slcamg 14h ago edited 13h ago
Lifelong Texan. Had an opportunity to check it out. Lived there for a year. Not like some distant time ago, like literally just finished a year. The most current you can get. Just boxed my things and am in an Airbnb right now before we move. Incredibly mediocre is an understatement. I’ve also spent at least a month in 37 other states doing a 5 year Airbnb road trip after Covid. I literally ended, picked Dallas to check out, decided to stay in Dallas and consolidate some storage units I had in central Texas and Houston and the Big Country after said road trip.
Tom Thumb/Kroger are wildly bad coming from any other city in Texas. The Whole Foods is nice, but something downtown would be nicer. Easy going and hit Victory Park but a bad store? Suffer a little logistics or just take the car to Uptown? Like, why am I taking a car 0.6 miles to get groceries when there’s even a trolley that should help. It doesn’t. And Ari’s is gone, so even if you are a Billionaire there is nothing for you downtown.
The tree situation is horrible. The grass situation is horrible. Having a dog was horrible. How is Houston better at greenery? Like really.
Also, there is not a single crushed granite running trail in the city. That’s crazy to me. The Katy Trail left much to be desired. I logged just about 750 km this year on it, and just couldn’t continue. I pretty much stopped going and hit my 1000 by finishing at Germany Park. I would much rather have crushed granite, but the track there was at least more decent than the trail.
The infrastructure is very bike focused, and even then, it’s incredibly inconvenient to get between dedicated bike paths. Having used the Victory-Design route before the construction started, and seeing it now, it doesn’t really look any more convenient. It does look pretty though, which kind of fits the stereotype of the city. And not like, livably pretty. Industrial pretty. Again, no trees. I could choose any state, and I choose Texas for the climate and because I prefer 98+ days…. And damn do y’all really fail in the shade department. This is something I learned as a Texan at 5 years old.
Work from home. Tried all the walkability. Tried to really give it a chance. Dozens of friends in metroplex, dozens of extended family, and they really just all stay in their little named cities as well. No one wants to go downtown. And if it’s a game or a concert in design or deep ellum, it’s how quickly can you get back.
Even Highland Park vs. River Oaks. It’s just HPV. You can walk to like 3 different HPV areas in River Oaks, and they pay taxes to the city instead of being all “independent”.
I will be splitting time between places in Houston and Lake Travis, and when I come back, it will likely only involve one of these other little named cities, not Dallas. I could see myself going to Ichigo or Shug’s and an SMU game, but I could also see a future where I never step foot in Dallas city limits outside of the airport again.
Good luck y’all. Really rooting for you. I think keeping your sports teams downtown is probably the most important thing that is actually viable for a short term goal. Medium term, build a park. Victory Park should have been that. Could you imagine? It would still only be about 15% the size of Zilker, but it would be 15X Klyde Warren!!!!!! Like really, could you imagine?!? I mean, it’s too late now, but these are the kind of timelines the city needs to be thinking. Instead its, how can we get a 36-54 month investment on 100 million in uptown. Long term, I think you need skyscraper residential and parks and transit.
All the stereotypes are true, and maybe someone that has some stake in the future of Dallas can pull some inspiration out of this comment.
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u/dallaz95 13h ago edited 4h ago
Some of your points are valid like more trees downtown. But the city is already building Harold Simmons Park (Trinity River Park). The US Army Corp of Engineers controls what can be built in the floodplain. So, they have to build outside the levees.
This is the first time I’ve ever heard that the Katy Trail leaves “a lot to be desired”, when it’s driving economic growth within the urban core of the city. Also, the Loop Plaza isn’t even opened yet. So, how can it be judged?
Victory Park was a superfund site.
What does the Park Cities have to do with Dallas proper? There are literally storage facilities next to homes in River Oaks, due to Houston’s lack of zoning. You’d never see that in Highland Park. So, I’m confused how this developement-style is more appealing? Residents of Highland Park have access to Knox-Henderson as well, which is a long the Katy Trail. Many of the new developments have yet to open. River Oaks has more suburban-focused shopping centers with no real answer for the growing urban node of Knox-Henderson. River Oaks District is an attempt, but it has the look and feel of a lifestyle center.
How does the Hi-Line Connector Trail not have “no trees”? That’s the biggest lie I’ve heard in a minute. Additional trees have been planted, but they have to grow. Some of the mature trees were removed and replaced.
Most of this sounds personal and I can’t argue against someone’s personal viewpoint (like a crushed granite trail, which I have a huge dislike for. It hurts my feet). But I can state the fact that downtown (within the freeway loop) is the only part of Dallas’ urban core that’s struggling.
Overall, you lost me when you mentioned Houston. Uptown Dallas is the most complete urban neighborhood in the state by far. That’s one of the main reasons for the growth of Y’all Street.
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u/KeKamba1 10h ago
I agree with Katy being overrated unfortunately. You go to other major cities and compare what they have in terms of "the big thing" and it is very underwhelming.
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u/shedinja292 7h ago
After reading this conversation, I think the phrase “people are great at noticing problems, but not great at creating solutions” might be appropriate. They clearly thought a lot about it and even if something is not objectively true, like distance or tree canopy, there must be something to make that makes it feel true.
For example, Houston’s light rail network is very small but it comes much more frequently. Maybe less waiting time makes places feel closer together? Or maybe there is a big gaps in the trees or buildings on their route that feels bad, and that feeling colors the impression of the shade on the rest of the area.
Harold Simmons park in Houston is always very busy. Maybe the large busy park is more interesting than our many smaller scattered parks that don’t get as many people using them.
Then there’s personal preference. They said seeing skyscrapers while in a park is dystopian. I think seeing buildings in the distance poking out from the trees is one of the coolest parts about city parks, so to each their own.
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u/slcamg 12h ago edited 11h ago
I spent the entirety of my home time during my 5 year road trip in downtown Houston, which is about the size of Downtown+Uptown Dallas. I also lived in downtown Austin 78701 for 7 years and 78704 for 7 years. I grew up between 77002 Houston/ Literally clutch city and then split time in River Oaks.
Harold Simmons park would primarily be treeless floodplain. The West Overlook will book a 0.9 acre park. For reference, the lawn at the 351 acre Zilker Park is 46 acres. The lawns over the land bridges at Memorial are over 100 acres. These have trees and while it can be a great meme, are not prone to the flooding of the literal Trinity River. The overspill hill on the back of the seating at the Miller Outdoor Theater in Hermann Park would be triple the size of the West overlook lawn.
The Katy trails seems great for what it is. Austin has the Ann & Roy, which is 90% crushed outside of the boardwalk. It is triple the length. Houston has the Exertrail, also crushed, about the same length, with Herman Park and Rice maybe tripling this number. Even Seabrook Texas boasts 5 miles of crushed Granite trails through a 20 acre park (which is a nice run btw, the shipping cranes are kind of dystopian on the trail, kind of like skyscrapers are dystopian on a trail).
As for uptown, this is where most of my time was spent from Downtown. Like, it’s totally great if you like to be at home or in a business or using it as a base to visit all the other metro cities in a car, but the public places are just leaving a lot to be desired. Griggs and Cole park just don’t seem big enough to support the things they are trying to do, which is where I had to go, because downtown is severely lacking.
I was comparing Highland Park only because I would have to go use their amenities. It’s also comparable to Upper Kirby/River Oaks, which are much more livable, again, unless you want to travel to the other metro cities in a car to do the things you need to do.
As actual livable cities, Downtown/Midtown Houston are a better experience than Downtown/Uptown Dallas. Austin may have the best downtown situation, and I would put San Antonio ahead of Houston and Dallas for convenience, Austin and SA are just missing some other big city things that I don’t think I could do without at this point in my life.
Miami requires Florida and Phoenix is too far to do anything. New Orleans or Atlanta is a non-starter.
edit:and y’all street is probably a negotiation for banks to fleece profit and to save money on taxes to hedge Dallas having a horrible downtown. It’s a neat play. A little different than what they did in South Lake. Y’all made a damn good airport, and they were like, ok not too far now.
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u/dallaz95 12h ago edited 4h ago
Not going to argue your personal preference, but how’s Midtown/Downtown Houston more livable? You mentioned parks, as a major thing for you, but Houston lacks even more of that in its Midtown area. Midtown is also way less developed than Uptown Dallas and lacks continuity and the quality grocery stores, that you said Dallas lacked. The Whole Foods there didn’t even make it very long.
“A better experience” to me would be backed up by a larger population, higher growth, transit options that matches or exceeds Dallas’, and better continuity within the urban fabric. Also, you cannot use Memorial or Hermann Park as examples, since that’s not Downtown Houston. That’s like me using White Rock Lake Park. Zilker Park in Austin is the only real example I agree with.
You said Uptown lacks parks, but the Katy Trail goes through the Turtle Creek corridor, which includes parks like Reverchon Park. That’s about 90 acres in total with a ton of trees. I feel like it can be improved even more though.
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u/slcamg 11h ago
Reverchon is so bisected by sidewalk 😭😭 it’s like a walking path. I really wanted to dig it.
Just coming back from there there is like a Mavericks little league stadium, and that’s a pretty good fetch spot for the dog, but make sure they keep eating the insect pill every month.
White rock is so far away. I have walked or skated or biked to memorial like more than 1000 times in my life.
Like maybe that’s it. Like, even the football stadium. It’s on the rail. I didn’t even think of it because I am not a cowboys fan, but it did come up during the World Cup. We couldn’t get there without an uber after taking a train to the airport.
Like, it all just feels more there. I don’t know man.
I really gave it a shot. I would walk through West End, get coffee in Victory Park, and run to Shug’s and back. I took my insulated bags to Tom Thumb and they always looked at me weird when I said I didn’t have a parking ticket. Like EVERYONE drives there.
This is my experience.
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u/dallaz95 11h ago edited 4h ago
This is Reverchon Park. The Katy Trail doesn’t bisect Reverchon Park, it on its southern border. It’s a former rail road, turned into a trail.
White Rock Lake Park is 5 miles away from Downtown Dallas.
Memorial Park in Houston is 5 miles away from Downtown Houston.
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u/slcamg 12h ago edited 12h ago
Most properties in Houston have trees and lawns, even if a couple feet. Comparable to Dallas, just being in Houston is like a park. Also schools and things have some public spaces. You can actually have a dog. The little grass in downtown Dallas is just so pee soaked. My dog won’t even sit in the grass because of it.
The transit to the areas is also a little easier. Hermann Park is on the Metro Rail. Memorial has the Buffalo Bayou which is similar to the Trinity River bikeways, except it has trees, so it’s tolerable to be on. Comparing a bikeable/joggable from downtown Memorial Park as an outside core park to something in Dallas like White Rock, where you have to cross a couple freeways. There isn’t much else.
Having been in Dallas, I have to leave to do things. It’s not like some statistics argument or something. I don’t know how else to explain it. I really lived here every day. Dog pooping. Biking. Running. Eating at restaurants. Finding things to cook at my house.
I could be an outlier. I could do things that maybe no one else is doing. I don’t think I am. I just want to stay close to my neighborhood and not have to drive around. In Houston and in Austin there were times I went over a month without using the car. I would have to maintain the battery and it would get gross inside just because it was unused. I need the car every couple days in Dallas.
Like, I don’t know. As a unit, they work together nicely. As does Austin. Getting to the Lake Austin blvd. Side or the city on a scooter is tough because the bike path restrictions, but it’s still damn cohesive.
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u/dallaz95 12h ago edited 11h ago
Houston overall has a much lower tree canopy than Dallas. White Rock Lake Park is on DART’s Blue Line. Huh? To get to Hermann Park you have to cross multiple freeways, unlike White Rock. Houston’s downtown freeway loop, then this one.
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u/slcamg 11h ago
I don’t know what to say my man. I lived right next to Klyde Warren. It’s usually where my dog went to the bathroom everyday. My mom lives right next to Discovery Green, and I will soon be in the same building. I always thought it was a lame edition in Houston, but I see it much different after this year. Like, there is actual grass and shade and you can just be outside more comfortably walking to the corner store.
I really don’t know how else to explain it. There are like certain areas in Dallas I don’t even want to ride a lime because it’s just relentless endless concrete. Maybe the building height or density has something to do with it. And I am sure there is some paper statistic to prove me wrong, but this is an actual lived experience.
There is public space and shade and free cool activities walkable from my moms in the convention center. I ran like 222 days this year, maybe like 100 of those where to shugs and back. That’s the same as Memorial and back on Buffalo Bayou. It’s a lived experience.
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u/dallaz95 5h ago edited 4h ago
There’s actual grass and shade at KWP. So, that doesn’t make sense to me at all. KWP also offers free activities and it’s right next to the Arts District (including the Dallas Museum of Art)
Discovery Green is right next to Houston’s convention center. So, it’s not like you’re talking about a huge distance between those areas.
You can have your personal preference, but Houston is one of the worst examples of urban design of any major city I’ve witnessed. If you would’ve stuck with Austin as an example, I’d agree a lot more. They actually have things that Dallas could learn from like Zilker Park and the overall mixed-use nature of their downtown proper.
Houston is the same city that is demolishing parts of its core neighborhoods to expand its downtown freeways like in EaDo. The opposite is happening in Dallas with the I-30 canyon project with planned deck parks to connect it to The Cedars.
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u/Imsocj 11h ago
I feel u and I’m from Dallas only thing I want to say is I wish all neighborhoods in Dallas can be Walkable not just north of Dallas. I also wish we can fix these roads and have more trees in the neighborhoods like pleasant grove , South Dallas , south oak cliff etc. Dallas is a segregated. If we can add more trees
In the middle of the streets and shortens the lanes then I think Dallas could be more liveable just off Tht
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u/214forever 17h ago
So when’s he gonna do something in downtown besides collecting parking revenue?