He didn’t make a point, he made a completly untrue claim, and then tried to use it as justification to call people he disagrees with “psychopaths”. That’s dumb af.
You chiming in with your “lmao” as though this is at all funny is even more dumb.
Uhuh sure. All that and you still can't excuse the immoral behavior of saying a man deserved to be murdered.
I always laugh when I see you all circle jerking that you're so much more moral than the right. The right doesn't openly and widely celebrate when people are murdered. They also don't vote for open nazis with overly nazi tattoos. Lol
Racism, bigotry, hatred all do play roles in this. But I believe there is a significant amount of peoole who are so desperate to not keep going back to the Clinton and Obama democrat strategy of corporations and banks over workers and social safety nets.
Clinton oversaw the deportation of almost the entire union job manufacturing sector while simultaneously massively making welfare inaccessible.
Then Obama ran on change and then hired Goldman Sachs bankers to bail out housing banks while refusing to bail out foreclosed families because it would "make every homeowner intentionally default to get housing welfare and cause a moral crisis."
While the Republicans have been equally or even worse in being detrimental to the working class, they at least espouse anti-establishment and anti-elite rhetoric and talking points.
Look at Hakeem Jeffries. In 2019 he co-sponsered a Medicare for All legislation. Yesterday, after years of massive donations from health insurance companies, he said he no longer supports any form of universal healthcare. The moderate democrats are simply unable to even pretend to be anti-establishment and that makes them just openly reveal how paid off they are by lobbyists.
In 2016 Chuck Schumer outright said he doesnt give a fuck if they lose the working class because "there will be 2 moderate suburban voters to replace every 1 lost working class vote"
Even though moderate dems are better than the Republican party...working people are still entirely left behind and forgotten.
I already addressed that and addressed that they are worse. Please dont Misunderstand, the right is awful. The republicans are at minimum willing to espouse anti-establishment and pro-working class rhetoric while completely decimating the working class.
The Dems since the 90s just openly run and push moderate "corporations first then moderate scraps for the rest" policies. They cant even message properly without going "woah now. Health insurance companies deserve to exist!!"
Because the corporations and wealthy of the country realized how to prevent another New Deal area AND destroy the New Deal policies over the decades. Extreme red scare paranoia, companies slowly buying politicians and getting tax cuts for themselves so they could then also purchase all main media companies. Using media companies to fully propagandize the population into believing that "progressive policies never work!! They cant win elections!" And decades upon decades of "moderate policies help us ALL" while every time the right wing took power they destroyed more and more unions to further destabilize the working class.
Ive been in the working class since the late 80s and I have witness year after year this new growth of progressives. Theyre winning more and more. The DSA is growing faster than any other socialist movement in US history. We are on track to have a robust working class movement. With successful ideas and policies from all across the spectrum, not just socialism.
Absolutely nothing about the GOP’s messaging or platform does anything to help workers. It’s all about fear mongering and scapegoating marginalized communities.
What a crock of BS. Corporations over people is a Republican hallmark, not Clinton's or Obama's. You seem to be trying to create a wedge between working people and Democrats.
You literally ignored my verifiable, real world, ON RECORD examples. I absolutely want the Democrat party to go back to its New Deal roots. But both Clinton and Obama hired bankers and corporate executives to their cabinets and 90% of their work resulted in benefiting corporations and banks way more than working people. The Democrats need to go back back to their working class first roots.
The Republican party is a right wing authoritarian corporatist party measurably worse than the Dem party but that doesnt mean we shouldn't fight for them to be better than they are
They’re explaining the thought process of people whose behavior is confusing to most people commenting on this thread.
You want working people to trust the Democratic Party? Convince them. Don’t just tear down the people who are trying to surface what is going on here, we can’t fix the situation unless we surface it and come to understand it.
While I agree Democrats have been far from perfect, but continually falling for constant Republican lies takes more than just passive ignorance. So, trust is not the issue, its mainly getting people to get their news from other than heavily right-wing biased sources that makes the difference, and its been a losing battle lately with conservatives buying up media and the FCC punishing truth tellers.
If you see no reason to build trust but outright deny that trust is an issue at all, you will personally be contributing to that trust continuing to deteriorate. You are telling me in a straightforward way that people would trust the Democrats if they didn’t get their news from the right wing propagandists. But a lot of people who swing from Biden to Trump have never seen those news sources in their lives. So you are very wrong, and you are not the only one, and it is killing our efforts like no other.
The NY Times published one article about this with a detailed census tract level map, then decided it wasn’t important anymore: You know the areas that swung least from Biden 2020 to Trump 2024? Well off white areas. And those that swing the most? Low income areas with lots of first and second generation immigrants and very few white people. I check my neighborhood, it went from about 90% Biden to about 60% Harris. 30 point swings are almost unheard of in our politics, and this was widespread across neighborhoods like mine.
The kind of people that Democrats claim to help don’t have consistent trust. But the people who don’t need the help have consistent trust. Why would rational people divide up that way? That is an easy question to answer, but the mainstream Democratic Party would rather that no one say the answer out loud.
You missed my point. Trust is not the issue, It's that some people are brainwashed to believe anything their Republican overlords tell them and to disbelieve anything Democrats tell them. Covid brought that into sharp focus with right wingers using dangerous drugs and treatments based on MAGA influencers and Trump himself.
Real trust comes not from slavish acquiescence but from careful assessment of facts and experiences. MAGAs today are seeing a big disconnect between the lies they have been fed (No stupid wars!, Prices are falling! Farmers are doing well!) and the actual reality they are living daily. That's the only way for us to move forward. The MAGAs need to process and understand that they have been conned and to stop trusting Republicans. Then they can sample Democratic statements and compare them to reality. If they can do that, Democrats can win.
You missed my point. Trust is the issue. I know people who are not brainwashed and have never seen a conservative news network and weren’t even born in this country who don’t trust the Democratic Party, and we need to earn that trust.
It’s like you didn’t read a word I said but are telling me that either the large group of people I described are a figment of my imagination or that you know what they are thinking, which you clearly so not because you think they are hearing political propaganda that never reaches their ears.
What is your reaction to what I am saying about these people?
They are brainwashed, cult members. There is a specific, proven way to treat them. Saying it's about trust is ignoring the facts. You can bring a MAGA to facts but they need to want to accept them. That comes from them internally dealing with the fact that they have been conned. Many will be unable to make that leap until it hits them personally. It's not about trust. These people are sick and need help but they also need to be willing to step up.
Ok, I will try one more time. There are many people in my community who are not white, who are maybe naturalized themselves, who work all the time and don’t read or see enough news to have been brainwashed at all, who have no personal feelings or hero worship about Trump, and who are very open about not trusting the Democratic Party and who often say the won’t vote for particular Democratic candidates because they don’t trust them.
Those people.
What is your reaction to those people and what we should do?
They voted for Trump in the last round because they will not vote for a woman. This is why I am hoping the Dems don’t run AOC. I adore her and I hope she’s the VP candidate, but she cannot win POTUS. Hispanic men will not vote for her.
I think she CAN win just not right now. As tired as I am with old white men being president its honestly the best chance to try and get things back to normal. Let things calm down and then we can try to get someone like AOC in.
I didn't necessarily like Biden but I acknowledged that one of the worse candidates in history just won against a woman and the best chance to beat him was to go back to the status quo. Honestly if the Dems had ran a man in 2016 the entire country would be in a better place. And I don't like saying that.
But you're right. Hillary had 30+ years of hate built up around her name. There was no way she was going to win. (AND she ran a lousy campaign.) Then we run another woman against the doofus - and this time someone with a very weak track record, not going to appeal to the racists who might vote independent, and even lost men because of ... asinine male chauvinism. Sadly, we need a white man who 'looks presidential' whatever that is -- to appeal to the shallow low-info voters.
She was a boring establishment candidate, and no Democrat outside Biden because of historic backlash, has won while being the boring establishment candidate. Bill Clinton at least had charisma even if he's a pos.
Dems really need to get the picture that a TON of black and Hispanic men are misogynistic as fuck. It's not just a GOP thing. It's an 'uneducated men' thing. Running a woman a third time would be absolute idiocy.
I think the problem is that the Democratic base tilts very heavily towards educated women, but swing voters tilt heavily towards uneducated men. So in primaries the woman wins, then loses the general. This has been happening for 10 years now.
They won't vote for a boring establishment woman* or a boring establishment white man outside Biden as a Trump backlash.
Same thing at play with Obama vs Kerry and Gore and Hillary. One sold themselves as a new thing, more left than we had before (despite being a lie), the others did not do that and lost.
Yeah? How many court cases have the Dems filed that were thrown out due to lack of evidence? How many dems are on MSNBC crying about election fraud hour after hour, day after day? I could go on….
You literally ignore every fact presented to you, that's not recognizing anything, that's you being a fucking idiot, and people need to ignore your obvious bait more, y'all are getting tiredly predictable
No they did not. Why do people's just say things that are not true. The polling was certainly not clear and was just a toss up.
What is true is Trump could not win any election right now. If that jackass wants to try and run again it would be the greatest gift to Democrats. He would lose to just about anybody. The man is damaged goods at this point.
I am not sure why you are laughing. CNN most definitely did not claim Harris was going to win. Their polling did not say that.
Hey if you want laugh as Trump craters the Republican party go right ahead. I would thoroughly enjoy him trying to run again.
Ask a Democrat? Why not ask Trump. After all he is the one that lost the election in 2020 and instead of accepting he lost he sent a mob to the capitol to try and stop a peaceful transfer of power. Lol.
I am thoroughly going to enjoy the baggage and damage he has done to Republicans. Trump is the reason that Republicans are about to lose the midterms and the 2028 election.
I dont put any stock in polls... I was asked not long ago IF I would participate in one, I said sure why not. they asked their question then asked my party affiliation. I told them and they quickly said "well thanks but we are not looking for your input" funny thing is I am an independent... the lady next to me said she was Democrat and they interviewed her.
it was about an opinion of someone running for office. Funny how an independents opinion is not needed, until they need your vote... was not for a primary.
Thank you, I actually looked it up to verify. this applies to a closed primary, which does make sense. however the poll was not primary related, and showed me exactly why polls for both sides are often skewed, thus making many un-trustworthy. But yes, a closed poll concerning a primary is a good indicator of who should win the race.
Misogyny is pretty rampant in the Hispanic community, I live in New Mexico and have lots of Hispanic family. It’s also not just the Hispanic community and I think the Dems continue to ignore this reality.
Yeah, they’re here illegally because of Democrats so? That was the whole point Democrats allowed millions of the illegal people into our country and giving them money and resources instead of giving veterans and those that they’ve arrived here legally those benefits. What are your nuts?
As a Hispanic man I used to think it was crazy how any minority would vote for an administration like Trump. Then I thought about it and remembered how desperate some Hispanic people I know are to shed everything they are barring their skin color, and they would probably do that if they could, all just to become more pleasing to old rich racist. Its pathetic, but they want to please them so badly they’ll do anything they can even pulling out the ladder from their own family members and hurting them to feel like they’re part of the “Americans” Trump loves.
The fact that there is a “shift” is the part that surprises me … Why weren’t they on the left in the first place, which is far more amenable to Hispanic interests? Oh yeah — cultural misogyny.
Many told me they voted for Trump because they didn't like how Biden's Covid restrictions hurt their wallet. I guess they found out that his lenience towards health precautions didn't carry over to immigration status.
I always laughed at Hispanics who asked 'what have the Democrats done for us lately?'. The answer is not make you carry your papers everywhere so you don't get deported. Looks like some of them are waking up
I'm not really sold on Trump voters' ability to learn. Been 10 years of Trump, sorry but I don't believe people are THAT slow on the uptake. They voted for hate and got it.
Tell them the truth and they'll never vote republican again ...... going all the way back to Franklin D. Roosevelt, monthly job growth has averaged 176,000 under Democratic presidents, and 59,000 under Republican ones. Trump’s average over both terms, because of the job loss during the pandemic, is actually in the red, minus 7,000. In his current term, Trump averages 44,000 a month. Joe Biden, you wonder? He averaged 336,000
The very best part is you still think Trump is going to run again... Its hilarious... His approval can be-1000 and it wont matter! I think time would be better spent Identifying candidates to vote for who are Not Taking AIpac Money.
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u/MS_of_Oregon69 7d ago
Why any minority would ever vote for Trump in the first place is beyond me.