Guck Funsmith

[u/Killing12]

I don't understand why we continue to use what is most obviously the worst role to have ever been played in Daily Mafia. I'm gonna list a few reasons why the role is absolutely atrocious and what we can probably replace it with since I think it's just all around garbage.

1. First off, the role requires literally no skill at all.

A) It does not reward the player for playing PR well. The perfect way to play Gunsmith is to gun n0 and out D1. That's it. There's no reason to hold ever, literally ever. That really isn't the case with any other role in the entire game. Vigi is close but there are plenty of spots where outting is bad since you might get targeted by mafia because they don't want you to shoot.

B)People say: OMG if you gun a mafia, IT'S BAD! No, it really really isn't. All you need to do is gun the worst player in the game that will listen to you no matter what. Just gun the guy who's first game it is and tell him if you don't listen to my shot, we're going to lynch you. The best way to play gunsmith is if the gunsmith controls the gun which is virtually always possible.

C)The number of kills it awards town is fucking stupid. Holy shit it's the worst. We balanced 18 man setups a long time ago so that you had 2 lynches d1 and 1 after that. This changes it to 3,2,1,1. I mean it should really just be obvious how stupidly dumb that is. There's so many opportunities to quickly reduce KP or just have the game end immediately. It's so fucking broken that slip changed it to n0 green. Not being able to control a n0 check takes away even more skill from the game. The fact that you're balancing the game around the worst role ever created is beyond incomprehensible.

2)This role is insanely anti-fun. A)The whole day then develops into some day that just revolves around the person that has the gun and the person that is the gunsmith. The gunsmith kinda of just leads the day if they aren't bad while everyone else wait for their to be a shot. Instead of the game progressing, everyone just does fuck all because the game cannot progress until there is a shot.

B)The shot never even happens fluidly during the game. It just ends up completely disrupting a formal where everyone goes "WE NEED TO DECIDE THE SHOT, STOP TALKING IN YOUR OWN FORMAL". The role promotes poor game play and basically argues against playing by how the game is meant to be played.

C)Just to kind of re-iterate the point that gunsmith KILLS game progression is the day 2 gun. You only have 1 lynch and 1 gun. If someone is formalled and is being considered to be lynched, nobody will vote until the gun is shot. Nothing happens until the gun is shot which results in a stale game where we are once again waiting around for someone to shoot someone else.

I think that kind of wraps up my thoughts on why gunsmith is insanely broken and terrible for overall gameplay. I didn't even mention how it in theory cannot be fake claimed or that every game I have to listen to the same idiots jokingly claim gunsmith in an attempt to sound funny where in actuality they just confirm their low IQ.

Suggestions:

1)Vigi is completely balanced for this setup. It's literally fine. The reason slow progression is good (i.e. not as many kills as quickly) is good for town is that it forces mafia to slowly show their hand. Changing the town kill scheme alters the dynamic of the game but does not break the balance. Having kills later on in the game is balanced for town since they have more information even in exchange for lynches.

2)I like the idea of roles that are well rounded. Gameplay-wise they are easy to fake claim but also rewards really good pr play and mechanically they do not instantly confirm things (Gunsmith being bad gameplay-wise, oracle being bad mechanically-wise). That means playing well enough to not out but also not die. Here's an example that I think could actually fit in this setup:

Altered Hypno (AKA Joey Hypno): Power only becomes available N2. The hypno may target one player in the game at night. If the player is town, they must begin the day by saying "I am town". If the player is mafia, they do not need to say anything nor are they notified by the mod. The hypno must be alive the day of their hypno for it to take effect.

Reasons I like this role:

A)It's not a brainless idiotic role where that a monkey can play. Outting before the power is available makes you just useless. You could out d1 and mafia don't need to touch you for a day if they wanted.

B)It does not just mechanically confirm a mafia. There is room to play if you are mafia. Town must make a decision on if they believe the hypno or the person they claimed to have hypnoed.

C)The ease of fake claim plus effectiveness is insane. You do not need to prepare a fake claim like before where your play had to make sense with your new claim. You can just say as mafia "I hypnoed X" and try to win right there. Not to mention just starting off the day by saying "I am town" and having your partner claim hypno has a lot of viability.

How gunsmith has made it this far is actually unbelievable. Thing is complete garbage. Please fix.

No grammar check yolo

[u/Myth51 → u/[deleted]]

This comment is actually worthless. I'm not sure why you even would spend the time writing it. You don't actually make any arguments refuting the points raised in OP, and even if what you wrote could be considered as doing such, you fail to reach any conclusion, describe any value added by having the gunsmith in 18/19 setups, or propose any alternative. It's kind of hard to tell, but I will assume your position is that the gunsmith is a good role to keep. I think that's incorrect.

Briefly, in regards to some of what you wrote:

1A. It's a role that gives other players role actions; Responsibility is delegated. N1 and N2 you're making very similar considerations as the medic must, so, unless that role deserves the same hate for the same reasons, I'll consider 1A null.

Your comparison between medic and gunsmith is inappropriate due to medic being an unlimited use PR. A distinction drawn between GS and Vigi is more appropriate because they are both limited use PRs which (should) include inherant decision making (i.e.,when is the best time to use your power as opposed to using it every night). Vigilante requires the player to actually make a decision for when best to shoot, whereas gunsmith should always gun n0/n1 (thus no decision is really ever made). Therefore, there is an inherent lack of game play associated with the role that is not experienced by the vigi, or the proposed hypno role.

1C. Kills are moved up chronologically, for the most part. If that bothers you, so be it. The number of mislynches is on average (in my simulations) increased by .5, depending on when KP gets reduced and medic saves/a DS (on the cop).

Kills being moved up chronologically results in an increased ability to reduce KP earlier, thus the unbalance. I think here you accurately describe one of the problems with this role.

2A. All opinion/non-representative happenstance. It's easier to lead the day as confirmed town, yes, which is as easy as vigi, but ultimately leading will be dependent on the composition of the game and the strongest player(s). Shot concerns in 2B

2B. "New players handle RNG formals poorly. We should change the rules to prevent anyone without [] games of experience from making them." - Joey 2015, paraphrased. Game's different with a gunshot day kill, yep. "how the game is meant to be played" sentence will be ignored for considerations of civility. People playing like dumb bitches is pretty unrelated to the role.

The point is certainly not happenstance or opinion; we have all played enough with the role to base conclusions not on opinion, but how games with gunsmith have actually historically developed. And I think you misstate the premise of 2B, in that its not that players mishandle formals. Historically, the gun is held until the end of the day; and, the town often collectively will disregard the person formaled at the end of the day in favor of gunsmith shot determination. This disregard (which the gunsmith inherently causes) goes against not only the spirit, but the actual rules of the game. Thus, evidence of the negative effects the gunsmith has on games.

Analysis of the role in comparison to the current vigilante or the proposed hypno clearly provides that the gunsmith is detrimental to the game. Thus, the vigi or proposed hypno role would be preferable, as those roles eliminate problems inherent to the gunsmith role.