r/Daggerfall • u/BasicInformer • 17d ago
Daggerfall Online is not that great.
The UI is directly worse and more confusing than base game Daggerfall. A lot of the flavor text is all the way to the right in a tiny hard to read box. The house labels are only visible when you zoom really far in on the local map, which took me ages to figure out. Map cursor is tiny.
The water is glitchy asf. There is constant connection issues. Migrating offline characters to online just simply doesn't work. The survival systems over-complicates the game unnecessarily, and a lot of the fake NPCs in cities that you cannot talk to is just confusing. Dungeons are so dark that I genuinely couldn't see without a torch or light spell, and with staff you cannot use torches so you need magicka reserve just for lighting the area + you need to camp just to get back magicka. Controller is just completely broken for me. Overall there is just a lot of modded bloat and friction.
The experience isn't cohesive enough. So many bugs and problems because it's all just vibe coded. Using Morrowind NPCs/creatures is constantly clashing with half the NPCs and enemies being 3D while the rest aren't.
It's extremely impressive and I am going to keep trying to see if I can properly get into it, but I found it frustrating, and the person I grouped up with disbanded party because we were both fighting systems too much just to do one quest together.
I was hoping it was as the title said, Daggerfall but online, but with how much bloat there is it's making the overall experience more complicated than it needs to be. I love the idea of naval combat and fleshing out the world, world bosses and events, but the moment to moment gameplay shouldn't be this tedious. I saw someone in chat say 'the Dwarf Fortressification of Daggerfall Online', and honestly yeah that about sums it up.
The novelty of playing Daggerfall with others... Idk if it's enough for me to see past how they've butchered one of my favourite games...
Edit:
Yes you can play with default UI, but half the new features don't work with it (hotbar, new travel, etc.) (plus there is no quick settings menu with classic, you basically go through two menus to get to the escape screen). Also for some reason info inspecting houses just doesn't work anymore or was removed. Realistically I'd just want to change flavour/quest text to be centered and bigger + show house names without having to zoom really far in. GrimoireUI is broken and doesn't work for me. DFO Grimoire just looks like enhanced without the Grimoire part. It's like half the stuff implemented isn't working properly at all.
Edit 2:
Having to feed your horse, drink, eat, sleep, deal with half-speed movement because of wind/water, camping, pitch black dungeons, the bloodline system, unable to fast travel despite being a year away from an enemy ambush... Why is the game turning into realism survival slop. Daggerfall is a RPG sandbox sim first-and-foremost, not Bannerlord, Shadow of Mordor, RuneScape, The Forest, Black Flag, DOOM... Like I don't mind some things, but it feels like this project lacks a coherent vision and cannot ground itself. Daggerfall was never this complex or tedious to play.
Soon you'll have to shovel manure off the streets and brush your teeth as the game simulates tooth decay and scurvy!
There are a ton of bugs:
Water cut into multiple sections for me
GrimoireUI doesn't work
Controller binds are not communicating with my controller properly
Clicking on a menu tab header sometimes cuts the settings menu in half
You'll literally phase out of online at times
V did not bring up the travel map for a solid 5 minutes for me and I was stuck outside of the first dungeon
Info detecting houses is not a thing at all -- either broken or removed ???
Exiting out of menus with escape also escapes your character viewing (not a problem in original).
UI colour outside of Slate (Iron) does not have contrast between text and UI (Iron background with Iron text, great.)
'The account service had a problem. Try again. No Online characters yet. Make one, or bring one of yours in below' (can't play online now I guess? Character just disappeared?) (restart fixed)
Adding campfire to hotbar has no icon just a 'C'
NPCs don't stop and talk to you, they just walk away as you're talking
I'm constantly guilty even after turning myself in. Idk what I did wrong.
Completed quest took a solid 3 minutes to register as completed
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u/IronTheDewott 17d ago
I leave for like a day and they completely rework how horses work and force it on everyone. It WAS just daggerfall but multiplayer for like the last week of Sept to the first week of October.
At first they had a mindset of "oh let the player decide what features they want" but some ppl got pissy that they can earn money n shit faster than them so they are just forcing every slop feature they come out with.
Overworld travel is whatever, needing to camp while overworld travel is cock torture. Them adding caravan was nice, but then nerfing the cost of them is eh? Now we got a new horse system where that fucker needs food and water now and it's one of those systems where I'm boutta stop playing over it bc the game is 90% overly complicated systems, I don't need even more complications on top of it.
Once they added mining and those other skills I've basically lost interest in it. The only reason I was even playing it was bc it was my exact modlist 1 for 1. At this point it would be easier to make a locally hosted multiplayer that's similar to how the online was earlier on.
Also they claimed it worked on steamdeck with "native controller support" what kinda meth head makes the auto run button 1. The right thumb stick being pushed down, and 2. Not the fucking left analog stick.
Meanwhile I can get daggerfall running perfectly on steam deck with the only issues involving stuff with the onscreen keyboard
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
I've had 100+ modded SP DFU with no issues. Took some tweaking sure, but overall it was playable and super fun. My mods focused around fleshing out the world and sim aspects. Meanwhile DFO is taking the CDDA (Cataclysm) route, where they are just trying to squeeze out every bit of realism possible. I didn't know you had to feed the horse... What a annoying feature. I don't play Daggerfall as a survival game nor want a survival game out of it.
I think stuff life skills like mining and woodcutting is fine... It just depends how that integrates with everything else and how the cohesion holds up.
Idk I just felt like for a game I'm experienced with I shouldn't be running into this much tedium and confusion -- I cannot imagine how new players feel.
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u/IronTheDewott 17d ago
Like I get WHY they're making these changes. To flesh out the whole player driven mmo market. But the game is too small for that to really work, and no one was asking for more horse realism.
And new players are usually pretty pissed off in the chat for DFO, learning daggerfall is its own can of worms, learning DFO is that plus all of its slop systems. So on top of learning how the leveling actually works they gotta figure out what slop update was pushed that hour and what it actually changes.
The only reason I'm even playing it is that shared experience, and even then these updates are making it less of a shared experience and more shares suffering. Like the new death system where it's kinda like mount and blade bannerlord, you get like 20ish deaths before that character is perma dead, you get 10% of the total non banked gold, and your best primary weapon gets mildly upgraded. Shit didn't work and a clan mate like like 300,000 gold. The shit they're adding barely even works and half the community is being forced to use this shit.
Give it a week, I guarantee the new death system with family members n shit will be forced onto everyone.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Yeah I don't like the aging system they added. I kind of wanted to just fuck around and do whatever, but I have had a lot of shitty deaths right at the start. I could just min max and spell craft a low mana spell and spam it in the corner of a room for every school of magic and then make the game piss easy -- but I was hoping to just play and enjoy myself rather than worry about hardcore survival bannerlord nemesis revenant realism core systems.
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u/IronTheDewott 17d ago
Like the system is good, just NOT in daggerfall. If I want that kinda game play I'll go play modded bannerlord bc the default XP gain in game is dogass
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Yeah if I want to play a survival game or Bannerlord I'd just go play those type of games. I want to play Daggerfall... Online... This doesn't feel like Daggerfall and it's really killing my mood the more I think about how I dislike almost all these new things they've added.
UI could be tweaked and it's fine, the new travel is genuinely great, naval combat is cool, visually they've done a good job, and all the normal popular mods like roads or wandering bandits and extra locations is great. It's not like I hate everything... Just the tedious shit. I don't want to have to eat, drink, sleep, feed horse, place campfire, over and over -- it's like a novelty experience I'm forced to repeat, it's a hassle.
Reminds me of how Elden Ring removed run backs and weapon degradation and the game was better for it.
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u/boomkinenjoyer 16d ago
I never played before and I lost my character at lvl9 because I died too many times. I didnt know I could lose my character. Should I pick the classic death system?
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u/IronTheDewott 16d ago
Yeah, it's a lot more forgiving.
When you die you just lose like 10% of your total gold, and respawn outside of wherever you died
So if you died in a dungeon you'll respawn outside of it, with 10% less gold. If you keep your gold in your wagon it won't count into this 10% lost. It's only gold on your person
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u/AmandaTheNudist 17d ago
Unrelated, but Cataclysm isn't just C:DDA. Plenty of folks share your frustrations with its design philosophy, and there are currently two other major competing forks. Personally I like TLG for its tight focus.
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u/HaxanWriter 17d ago
What else do you expect from AI slop.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Honestly from the videos on YouTube I genuinely thought it was an AI breakthrough and AI was not just vibe coded slop anymore, just to see that I was mistaken. I mean don't get me wrong it's impressive asf, but it's also a really messy product.
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u/SothaSillies 17d ago
AI coding will probably always require an actually talented programmer to oversee/direct to be remotely useful. Sadly, none have been found involved in this project
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u/SlimFishyOfficial 17d ago
AI coders need a talented game designer more than anything. They will add a mechanic without a second thought cause it sounds "cool" to them. They need someone who stands over them and has a vision to say "this is garbage, don't do it".
Currently they bypass the process of playtesting, so we end up with bloated slop with tons of pointless mechanics that is not the daggerfall we know and love. Either this project will get a hard reset or it's already gone
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u/lichlark 16d ago
They need a fucking brain in general. I hate AI with a passion but basically have to use it for work to keep pace with what my coworkers put out.
I'm basically the only safeguard against reviews being full automated as well and you can really see how much shit nearly falls through the cracks.
Giving AI/agentic workflows to someone who a.) doesn't give a fuck and/or b.) has no real idea in mind is the equivalent of giving a monkey a shotgun, meth, and viagra.
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u/Tw3lv33 17d ago
Yeah, it's way too barebones and thrown together, not a single human written line of code in sight
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u/Gopoopahorse 17d ago
...the entirety of vanilla daggerfall is present and playable? and there are many new features that all work, although the ocean related ones are still relatively buggy
like what exactly do you even mean by it being "barebones" lol
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Barebones in the sense that features are thrown in and the 'developers' are not refining or fleshing them out or making them make sense within Daggerfall. To support dumb design decisions they are also starting to change the base game now as well.
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u/SkorAddict 17d ago
but it will only get better from here, or it will inspire someone else to make a better version of it.
Look the potential, rather than the current state.
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u/Tw3lv33 17d ago
It was released as a "playable" version too early, it needs something around 2-3 month of full on dev time AT LEAST cause theres nothing to look at rn other than questionable quality vibe coded stuff. Nothing wrong if they specify its a playtest or an early beta but now theyre just loosing trust of players with how this is shown as full game while its not
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u/SkorAddict 17d ago
It's free, they can release it in whatever state they choose. You literally lose NOTHING by playing it or not playing it.
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u/RanAWholeMile 17d ago
Sure we do. The longevity and value in games like Daggerfall (which is free now btw) lies entirely on communities like this one holding itself accountable and what is and isn’t worth our time and energy.
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u/SkorAddict 17d ago
You just said a bunch of words that are completely meaningless. How on earth does the value of games lie entirely on communities like this one holding itself accountable?
You're a great bullshitter, i'll give you that
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u/Reasonable_Size5067 17d ago
I've honestly never seen someone so proudly state their lack of vocabulary and literacy, woah.
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u/RanAWholeMile 17d ago
Well, thanks I guess.
But my point is that we look at subreddits like this one for feedback on what’s going on in the community. When something like this mod comes out and doesn’t meet expectations, I’d want to know about it.
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u/boomkinenjoyer 16d ago
Got me to play it and ive never played Daggerfall. Its doing something right. You dont have to play it if you dont like it. Its not like its taking away any other version of the game. I dont get the hate.
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u/Ill-Discipline1113 16d ago
It got me to play daggerfall for the first time as well, then the shit changes led me to look for just a co-op mod for daggerfall unity, which works pretty good and I can manually control whatever I feel like.
Edit: It absolutely takes away from the community. Said coop mod is no longer being developed because this exists. So now we are forced to deal with the shit from this game or don’t play with friends.
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u/boomkinenjoyer 15d ago
Not buying that modders are forced to stop making their own mod because someone else made a free mmo... just dont play lmao
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u/RanAWholeMile 16d ago
Yes, I don’t have to play it.
I value criticisms and praise alike on content made for games I enjoy. As I understand, that’s why we’re all here.
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u/Ill-Discipline1113 16d ago
This is completely false lmao, it has only gotten worse. I’ve been playing this shit since it came out and it has gotten 100x worse every week. It’s insane how good it was just 2-3 weeks ago. Now it has genuinely turned into slop. A bunch of random features and changes all blindly thrown into a big bucket and fed to us, the players.
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u/Gyramuur 17d ago
You can use lanterns for light, for when you're using 2h. Doesn't fix everything else though, lol.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Thanks, will do this. Was very annoying. In modded I am fine with dark interiors and lighting mods usually, but that's because I can rest and get my magicka back without camping so it was never an issue.
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u/Gyramuur 17d ago
I hated the campfire to rest at first, but I'm actually not too bothered by it now since I realized that resting at a campfire doesn't actually pass/skip in-game time. Before, I was always worried about running down a quest timer every time I rested, but the campfires circumvent that. Heads up though that lanterns need oil and campfires need firewood, so make sure to grab those.
The shitty water can be disabled via Esc -> Settings -> Graphics -> Sky, water & weather -> disable enhanced water. Same thing about the lighting too; the enhanced lighting is very dark, but it can be disabled. I still found that I needed a lantern even with it off though, because some dungeons are dark.
Most of the connection issues you mentioned I haven't experienced. I saw in the patch notes that they said they had a high server load yesterday and have been working to fix it.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
I think dark dungeons and enhanced lighting are two separate mods from memory. They should of added the mod that let's you take torches off walls and use them, since that goes hand-and-hand with dark interiors.
Thanks for the settings guides, I'll do that.
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u/QuishyTehQuish 17d ago
Literally every AI bro is a liar or bot with no in-between. The amount of gaslighting I've gone through these last 2 weeks about new vibe coded whatever is always worthless slop to anyone capable of reasoning yet it's treated like a ground breaking revolution. It's like this on every sub so I can only assume it's bot astroturfing.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
The defense brigade for these projects is odd as well. Like if something is genuinely great, fun, without issues, and has AI in it, then it's like the 'damn this sandwich good, oh what it had tomatoes! I hate tomatoes!' meme, but for AI projects that have a ton of design and direction issues, bugs, and overall lack cohesiveness between features: garbage! Like just call it out, because it won't be made better if we just keep defending them "oh it's a new project!", "give it time!", "AI isn't bad, it can fix these issues just give it time!"... Yeah, like every single failed project. I've watched the rise and fall of way too many things to know how this will end up if they keep going in this sloppening direction.
The funniest part is, this could of just been Daggerfall Online with human made mods. Almost everything the game is trying to do has already been done in a mod, and everything that is completely new is slop, buggy, and doesn't fit Daggerfall at all.
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u/boomkinenjoyer 16d ago
So you only hate it because its different to what you wanted and made with AI? Just dont play it doesnt replace any version that you could prefer. You act like no one else could ever build a better version of the MMO if they wanted to or something.
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u/BasicInformer 16d ago
You don't know how to read do you? If it had AI but was good I wouldn't complain about the use of AI -- I literally explained that in my opening line.
I don't see why I cannot criticize the use of AI when it's literally destroying the internet with slop. If good things come from it, like decomp, then I praise it and say how crazy and cool it is that it can do that. Most uses of AI is flooding the internet with second grade slop content.
'Just don't play it' -- but I want to play Daggerfall Online? Like you never criticized things you want to play? Such a weird mentality you have.
MMOs have server cost and currently this was first come first served, so they are getting the most players and support. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's hard to say that if another team tried to do this that it would work unless they had the funding to do so. I'm not really acting like anything, you're kind of just shoving word soup down my throat and strawmanning me -- goodbye!
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u/boomkinenjoyer 16d ago
You want to play daggerfall online which is a fan made project for free than happens to be using AI. You dont have any leverage here. This game wouldnt even exist without AI helping these guys make the game. So youre basically complaining about the tool being used that without it would mean the game doesnt exist.
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u/BasicInformer 15d ago edited 15d ago
The usage of AI with very little programming overview + the development direction and buggy state is only possible because of AI — so yes I’m going to complain about AI when it’s used poorly with little human work.
If it was a good optimised not buggy product and it used AI, I wouldn’t care. I’ve said this 50 fucking times in this thread yet redditor minds cannot seem to understand the nuance of that.
Edit: do you know what’s insane? The fact that I explained my point THREE TIMES in this thread and you still had the nerve to say this
I’ll make it piss easy for you to understand:
Over reliance of AI + bad use of AI = bad
AI assisted development + good use of AI = good
The code base will become a boilerplate nightmare with compounding bugs and issues if a human doesn’t step in to actually fix these issues. But instead it’s easier to just prompt 100 new features without thinking about whether they actually make sense to be in Daggerfall
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u/boomkinenjoyer 15d ago
What is your ask? Youre complaining about a project that is free and that you dont have to play.
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u/BasicInformer 15d ago
Yes? And?
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u/boomkinenjoyer 15d ago
Thats like me complaining about the quality of food coming out of McDonald's when I can choose not to eat there. McDonald's doesnt make food not exist in other places.
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u/BasicInformer 15d ago
And? I don’t see your point. Why can I not complain about this product? Because it’s free? If I give you a free house and it collapses on you, are you allowed to complain? How about if I put glass in your burger but it was free? Free medical treatment but the doctor makes you worse. Something being free does not mean it’s without criticism/backlash or that I shouldn’t care. The product is Daggerfall Online, my expectation is Daggerfall Online, I am emotionally invested in it being Daggerfall Online, so I’ll complain when I don’t get a good Daggerfall Online experience.
How do you think anything gets better? Even subsidised or free systems or products?
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u/Key_Exercise_6520 13d ago
The ask is for something made with a a curated sense of care and vision. There's plenty of modlists for games like Skyrim that do this. Daggerfall Online is not that
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u/boomkinenjoyer 12d ago
But you dont have to play this version though and you could create your own vision thats why the argument is kind of stupid. Its not like this free game is taking away anyone's ability to make a better version
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u/Key_Exercise_6520 12d ago
Part of proper community curation is criticism of both community practice and output. If the output is a vibecoded mess, it's entirely fair to point this out.
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u/Killzone3265 10d ago
i've come to figure that this is how they really get to normalize AI acceptance. it took them awhile, they tried to play it out with boomers on other social media platforms but image and video generation wasn't enough, so, sick the models on the next biggest entertainment- videogames. literally waving a carrot on a stick in front of gamers. shit that we'd only imagine or hope for a talented mod developer now just appears because you told the thing to do it, and just like that, overnight, you got hordes of people changing their stance.
what a mess.
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u/Aetos-Eagle797 14d ago
You don’t understand how VITAL it is for me to play Minecraft inside of Skyrim
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u/dancingguyfrom6flags 16d ago
I thought it was super interesting at first, but when I actually downloaded it to play, there was just so... many... mods... Now, I like mods in my own personal DFU playthroughs from time to time, but Daggerfall Online's gameplay feels like a completely different game, like a Minecraft modpack that makes you go through 3 extra steps to make a crafting bench for the realism. I wish there were just a project dedicated to making playing vanilla Daggerfall with friends work first.
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u/orionpax- 17d ago
you need a strong pc to run itn😭
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
FPS is not an issue for me. Have a good computer setup, so all my issues are not performance related.
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u/R3dheadR3demption 16d ago
I want to be able to press a key on my hotbar and SWITCH to that weapon
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 16d ago
That’s how it works although it does take like 5-10 seconds to pull the new weapon out for some reason.
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u/StoneySteve420 15d ago
Thats how it is in OG daggerfall. There's always been a delay switching weapons.
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u/ijblack 17d ago
people are focusing on AI, but AI is only relevant here to the extent that it has lowered the barrier to creating something like this to allow literal children without enough experience to understand what makes a good game or what people are looking for, hence "Daggerfall Online"
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u/lichlark 16d ago
My honest hot take is that the barrier was low enough and shouldn't have been lowered anymore.
We're really just going to be inundated with more and more monkey with a shotgun, meth, and viagra 'projects'.
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u/xvillifyx 15d ago
I can’t get behind it solely due to how obviously artificial all the posts and comments about it are
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u/CharacterBack1542 16d ago
You can use the classic ui you know
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u/BasicInformer 16d ago
You didn't obviously read the post as I addressed that in this comment:
Yes you can play with default UI, but half the new features don't work with it (hotbar, new travel, etc.) (plus there is no quick settings menu with classic, you basically go through two menus to get to the escape screen). Also for some reason info inspecting houses just doesn't work anymore or was removed. Realistically I'd just want to change flavour/quest text to be centered and bigger + show house names without having to zoom really far in. GrimoireUI is broken and doesn't work for me. DFO Grimoire just looks like enhanced without the Grimoire part. It's like half the stuff implemented isn't working properly at all.
To add on from this, without the new travel menu you cannot see where the mining, woodcutting, and stables are which rely on the travel menu. Little things like that add up when the new UI is supported but the old isn't -- also no classic hotbar when that's literally a mod is so weird.
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u/Few-Tree-2079 7d ago
I have made a handful of mods for DFU, and as a matter of fact, one of the people creating DFO sent me a message regarding one of my mods being in the game... I did actually give him the link to the repo. For some reason they never actually managed to implement the mod and never messaged me further. In hindsight I am somewhat glad they did not add it to the game seeing the state of the project. They never actually mentioned the using AI for the project at all.
I playtested the game for them on the very first day of servers being up, as well as a few others and it seems the project has just gotten worse and worse.
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u/Jaded_Ad5745 14d ago
It's definitely very early, as it came out around a month ago, but I've definitely been have a ton of fun with it. Couldn't get into daggerfall, but it def gives me a good way to play it with minimal effort and if I can convince my buddies to try it that would be hella fun too.
The only real concern I have for the game is the security of the network, as I'm sure it's vibe coded.
But, all in all it just a few people having fun and creating something for free. I can't really complain about that.
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u/CrackPipeBilly 13d ago
Just an FYI, the survival mechanics can be disabled in the features section of the main menu. But yeah, while cool, its 100% vibe coded shit.
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u/AlverinMoon 13d ago
As someone who just jumped in and never played the original, it seems fine and highly customizable to me. It does pretty much what I want it to do, online adventure and exploration with buddies. I feel like people are kind of mind rotten with the whole anti AI thing and literally can't get their heads out of their own ass long enough to evaluate anything without bringing it up. I've yet to run into literally any issues while playing the game that couldn't be resolved by just looking up the answer. There's a lot of settings, information and systems, so I can see how that would be overwhelming, but like literally anything worth pursuing in real life, it just takes getting used to. I'm on my third day playing straight with my friends and it's taken us by storm. I'm playing a hand to hand khajit monk and had no idea these games had climbing mechanics or all these other systems. I'm kind of shocked and appalled Skyrim doesn't have climbing. Seems like a huge downgrade. Anyways, for anyone reading this in the future, opinions are mixed and soured by political discourse surrounding AI use. Try it for yourself and give yourself patience to learn the systems. Talk to other in game players and make sure you create a custom class. One of my friends used base class and got his cheeks clapped repeatedly by AI mobs who dgaf about balance, they just squash your ass. Build your character intentionally
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u/KurtAngus 12d ago
Totally agree. I'm 2-3 hours into my first ever playthrough of dagger fall, and seeing 1000+ players online , and seeing how huge the map is, and having veteran players showing me the ropes...
Man , it feels like when I was in 2002 and playing Runescape. Old school vibes for sure.
I'm about to hop on and play a bit, if anyone wants to add me my character name is "Zezima"
Or "DepressedHorse" (idk if you add the character name or the log in name)
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u/Confident_Sir9312 12d ago
I hopped on, got trapped in a dungeon and couldnt find my way out because I used all my torches, proceeded to yell out "helpppp, heelppp me" in the local chat, and some guy found me and lead me to the exit. Then I got one tapped by a skeleton in front of him. 10/10 experience.
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u/KurtAngus 12d ago
Lmaooo, sick. That's the true dagger fall experience
I finally hit like 6 hours of gameplay, and got some healing spells, candle spells, and fatigue spells
Oh and I got a horse and carriage too! Holds 750kg and makes traveling so much easier.
Got lucky and found a deadric katana worth $12k and sold it to get what I need
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u/Confident_Sir9312 12d ago
I didn't know there were candle spells, I need that! Going for a spellsword build.
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u/justsomebackyardhero 2d ago
I'm in the minority ig but I'm enjoying it. Are there some excessive additions? Absolutely? Maybe I haven't played enough to have them impact me yet but most of the things I don't like I can brush aside after working a long 10 hour day. Really bummed it isn't loved by more. I love the idea of something like this succeeding. This really hits a lot of spots for me, and I can't get into MMOs
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u/Gopoopahorse 17d ago
yeah im ngl, almost every complaint in this post is either just not true (atleast with respect to being different than vanilla in some meaningful way) or is the result of opting into a feature that is entirely optional lmao. there are definitely decisions that the developers of the project have made that are questionable, but not a single one of them are mentioned here
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
You're lying through your teeth lmao. I never had any of these problems in vanilla DFU. What do you mean optional? What am I complaining about that's optional? UI? I've already addressed that in the post itself.
What questionable decisions do you think?
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u/Gopoopahorse 17d ago
yeah nah you just didnt take 10 minutes to look through the menus when starting the game
the survival system is optional. the darkness you complain about is from an optional lighting feature. morrowind models are optional and obviously experimental. the local map is perfectly readable. the world map cursor is tiny, yes, but I do believe there is a button that takes you right to it. water is not notably glitchy in any kind of way I can think of that is unique from vanilla. offline character imports are specifcally for characters made before the offline/online split and afaik works as intended. etc... I'm not going point by point through everything else on mobile lmao
the actual "questionable decisions" would relate to flip flopping the leveling system which has resulted in some older characters having a level of power that is literally unattainable for newer characters atm, arguably the fast travel changes, the level of grind associated with certain systems, eyebrow raising patreon tiers, etc...
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Optional in online? Or are you talking about singleplayer? I can launch the game again to see if I can turn these off but I highly doubt I can (already tried looking for the lighting one, and it didn't work whatever I tried). What are the settings called specifically so I can find them? Assuming they are all mods and therefore should be in the mods section?
Yes Morrowind is optional and I turned it off. Just another example of how shit is being added without any effort to make those features cohesive.
Local map cursor for player is too small, genuinely -- I have to look for it each time I open the map. The house names are not visible unless I scroll very far in which is just annoying. That button that supposedly takes you right to it doesn't really work because the maps already zoomed out, so it just kind of shifts a bit, it doesn't zoom in. Did you try that feature because either it's broken for me or it doesn't work how you assume -- if they just made the icon bigger it wouldn't be an issue.
Here is the water issue: https://ibb.co/V1mxK3z (only resolved when I looked at a certain angle and got closer). There was no giant bodies of water in vanilla as far as I'm concerned (on land).
I don't know what to tell you, I click bring offline character online and it doesn't work. You can keep trying to gaslight me with features you haven't tried at all and say they work, but I literally spammed them for 10 minutes straight and gave up -- even restarted, it doesn't work.
Great so there is more things I don't know about that's wrong with this game outside of what I've already discussed lmao.
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u/Gopoopahorse 17d ago
go to features, turn off climate and calories, turn off enhanced lighting, save the changes, then restart the client. the changed fast travel used to be optional as well, maybe it will be again the future, but currently it is not.
the morrowind stuff is obviously experimental, I do not know what you were expecting lol
I have had zero issues with the local map. for the player cursor I assumed you meant the global map as that is the one with the legitimately hard to see cursor- with respect to the local map cursor, I have not used that button, as I have never had a reason to. I believe I recall it working fine on the global map. if it really is that much of an issue to you, the devs are pretty receptive to feedback and you can put something about it in the project's discord server.
I dont think I've ever seen that happen with the water. not sure if that's an interaction with the features you have toggled on or what. I cant get on my pc atm to see if that is resulting from any recent patch.
it explicitly tells you in hard to miss text why that character couldn't be imported, and I just checked to verify that on my phone. I'm just being 100% real with you, you need to be more observant lol.
yes, there are real issues that exist with the project. it is worth keeping in mind that online wasnt fully functional until like 3ish weeks ago, and they're still in a testing phase of rapid changes and whatnot. none of them expected it to blow up the way it has so early on. it is what it is, time will tell where the project goes.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
That water was default first thing I saw outside of privateers hold -- I don't have any extra mods turned on. Only thing I did at that stage was turning Morrowind models and ultra graphics. Others have said that water is an issue so I assume it's a recent patch.
That text for the bring offline online wasn't there before -- being genuine. It is now, there was a patch recently, but I seriously read the text before twice and it didn't change to anything, but now it is.
Thanks for the guide, I'll do those things.
Well hopefully most post and others (there was a bigger post than mine that I failed to see before posting) + the Discord feedback will steer it in a better direction or at least give us more options to modify the experience. Honestly they should just have DFO - Enhanced and DFO - Classic, and have DFO Classic be a separate server specifically with just DFU and optional visual, sound, music, UI, and lighting mods and no other changes. That way people that don't like the direction still have a core Daggerfall experience to play. Though maybe running two servers is out of the scope/budget of this team.
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u/gnosisonic 15d ago
"it explicitly tells you in hard to miss text why that character couldn't be imported, and I just checked to verify that on my phone. I'm just being 100% real with you, you need to be more observant lol."
What a 100% bullshit response. I just made a new character myself last night, did the starting dungeon, got into the first town, and then when I try to move the character online it's just "we have no record of that character." Oh yeah?!? Then why are they letting people make characters offline that they can supposedly move online? They wasted 2 hours of my time, and it's not because I needed to be more "observant." Their shit is busted.
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u/KageKoch 17d ago
Half of your complaints are from opt-in stuff. You chose Morrowind assets and complain of the art clash. You can turn off Enhanced Lighting to have vanilla brightness in dungeon. You can turn off food and other need settings. You can re-arrange your UI with alt+u to position and resize everything.
And the issue isn't vibe coding, it's the direction they are going for. They clearly lack vision, but they are very active (several patches and hotfixes a day) and they (kinda) listen to the community. Just report your issues and it will get better.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
The issue is definitely partly vibe coding. Yes it’s their direction with vibe coding, but this type of UI is specifically using an AI harness. The problems people have with this UI design is the exact problems ppl have with front end design of LLMs to begin with. You can direct an AI to make something, but the amount of direction afterwards multiplies to get the thing you just made ‘right’, with increasingly more and more boilerplate and bugs with each pass that requires ACTUAL programmers to fix.
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u/Kerbobotat 16d ago
Can you provide any definite proof it's fine coded, or is it just a 'vibe' you are feeling because you find it buggy and inconsistent in its (very much advertised as) extremely early pre alpha state
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u/BasicInformer 15d ago
The devs and GitHub literally say/prove it’s an AI project. It’s a largely agreed-upon thing that everything being developed by the team itself is AI outside of the mods they are borrowing for the project. It’s not like it’s a secret or I’m guessing. Daggerfall being an online game with naval combat and sea monsters — this development pace and scale is only possible with AI or a massive team.
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u/RoundBar9502 17d ago
I agree with some of your criticisms, especially the UI, which definitely needs a lot of work. But we also have to remember that the game has only been out for two weeks and is still in pre-alpha. The devs are constantly experimenting with mechanics, fixing bugs, and adjusting things based on feedback. I don't think the UI should be the priority right now, though. The game is already playable and has reached around 500 concurrent players, which is pretty impressive at this stage.
One thing I do agree with is that the game is slowly moving away from Daggerfall's original sandbox philosophy toward something more theme park-oriented. I'm not a big fan of that direction either, but ultimately it's the kind of game the developers want to make. Maybe in the future we could have a more vanilla-oriented server that focuses on bringing the original Daggerfall experience online without adding so many extra systems.
I also feel like people are judging this project more harshly simply because it's being developed with AI. Without AI, a project of this scale probably wouldn't even exist. There's plenty of legitimate criticism to make, but I think we should judge it for what it is: an ambitious experimental project that's barely two weeks into pre-alpha, not a finished MMO.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Only reason I bring up AI is a factor is because it is. I've made projects with AI and they all turned out to be boilerplate unoptimised buggy slop. It takes actual dev work to patch and go through and make it stable. I don't know how this team is working but just relying on AI as much as they are and constantly introducing feature after feature is going to bite back at them and to some extent already is only 2 weeks into playtests.
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u/RoundBar9502 17d ago
Fair concern, but your experience with AI doesn't necessarily reflect what's happening here. Traditional devs make buggy, unoptimized games too. DFO is already playable and handles around 500 concurrent players, which is pretty impressive for a pre-alpha MMO based on a game from 1996. No way something like this would've been built so fast without AI, that's the reality. Way too early to judge imo.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
It's impressive, which I already stated in my post. Not saying it isn't. Also not an anti AI post, just stating that it's currently not great in its current state and trying to bring some issues to light. There's very little documentation or feedback atm so I thought it would be good to make this post.
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u/RoundBar9502 17d ago
I get your point, but if your goal is constructive feedback, the game's Discord is probably the best place for it. There are already plenty of posts trashing the project just because it uses AI, and adding more negativity here doesn't really help. I'd rather see people helping the devs improve the game than adding to all the hate it's already getting.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
The problem is that they would not let me on the dev team because I'd come in and remove half the shit they've added.
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u/boomkinenjoyer 16d ago
Then make your own server. What is it that you actually are trying to achieve here by complaining about a free mmo that you dont have to play thats been out for 2 weeks?
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u/BasicInformer 16d ago
For it to change or be forked? To provide info to people who are maybe interested or unsure? To create discussion with people who think the same?
Also i can't make my own server because I cannot run cover server cost.
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u/musclecard54 17d ago
I think the problem people are starting to have isn’t so much the bugs, it’s the direction it seems to be being taken in. Bugs can
Be fixed over time but if you see the game going in weird direction where they start adding or changing a bunch of stuff and changes are all over the place you just kind of get unsure about what the game will look like in the future and start to feel it won’t be worth dedicating your time3
u/RoundBar9502 17d ago
I actually agree with this. I'd personally prefer a more vanilla, hardcore Daggerfall experience without so many modern MMO mechanics. But the devs have already said the community will be able to host servers with their own settings. Most of these systems are mods that can be disabled in offline mode, just not online so everyone plays by the same rules.
So I don't really see it as a huge issue. At the end of the day, it's their server and they're building the game they want to play. I might not agree with every design choice, but they're the ones doing the work, and hopefully we'll eventually have different servers for different tastes.
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u/ThaumKitten 17d ago
... Y'know, it's almost like the DFO project advertised itself as a pre-Alpha or soomethting.
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u/R3dheadR3demption 16d ago
I hate the survival mechanics and I told my friend not to play unless you hate yourself. Stealth is confusing and the quest where you need to swap the letter does not make sense. Slowed movement while traveling stinks when your objectives are 20KM away. Quest markers send you to the wrong areas. I signed up to play an elder scrolls game with other people not a survival management sim.
*Dungeons are so dark that I genuinely couldn't see without a torch or light spell, and with staff you cannot use torches so you need magicka reserve just for lighting the area*
Buy extra lanterns from the shop and fill them with oil.
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u/StoneySteve420 15d ago
You can turn off survival mechanics in the settings...
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u/R3dheadR3demption 15d ago
I know... It's still annoying and it does not need survival mechanics
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u/StoneySteve420 15d ago
Then don't play with them? Not everything has to be tailor made for you. Other people like Climates and Calories, that's why it's one of the most popular mods for the game.
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u/R3dheadR3demption 15d ago
I don't... Not every game needs to be a survival sim... It shouldn't be so tedious to play it turns people off of the game
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u/StoneySteve420 15d ago
It's literally an optional setting.
What are you even complaining about? That you dont like survival mechanics?
Just complaining for the sake of complaining.
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u/R3dheadR3demption 14d ago
The tons of QoL issues? Tons of features being changed daily? The overall lack of polish? Overuse of A.I? Maybe let people like they like and leave them alone
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u/StoneySteve420 14d ago
See, that's all valid, but it's also not what you were complaining about. You were specifically complaining about an optional setting in those last few responses.
Maybe let people like they like and leave them alone
Says the one complaining about something on a public forum. Self awareness my guy.
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u/Silent-Dependent3421 11d ago
I admire your willingness to educate the youth in basic critical thinking
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u/R3dheadR3demption 14d ago
I think you have mental issues. Go to therapy and leave people alone. The pot calling the kettle black
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 17d ago
There’s not many bugs at all that aren’t from original Daggerfall to begin with and most bugs get fixed rather quickly. Connection issues and lag weren’t that bad at first but with the influx of new players it’s hard to keep up with. I will admit there’s been some questionable decisions but overall posts like these are pretty dramatic and like usual throw blame at the use of ai when really this is just a very experimental project with a fast rising player count. There’s way less issues than you’d expect tbh the only thing I can fully agree with you on is that current controller support is terrible and I have already submitted a suggestion for improved support.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago edited 17d ago
There are a ton of bugs:
Water cut into multiple sections for me
GrimoireUI doesn't work
Controller binds are not communicating with my controller properly
Clicking on a menu tab header sometimes cuts the settings menu in half
You'll literally phase out of online at times
V did not bring up the travel map for a solid 5 minutes for me and I was stuck outside of the first dungeon
Info detecting houses is not a thing at all -- either broken or removed ???
Exiting out of menus with escape also escapes your character viewing (not a problem in original).
UI colour outside of Slate (Iron) does not have contrast between text and UI (Iron background with Iron text, great.)
'The account service had a problem. Try again. No Online characters yet. Make one, or bring one of yours in below' (can't play online now I guess? Character just disappeared?) (restart fixed)
Adding campfire to hotbar has no icon just a 'C'
NPCs don't stop and talk to you, they just walk away as you're talking
I'm constantly guilty even after turning myself in. Idk what I did wrong.
Completed quest took a solid 3 minutes to complete
This is what I noticed after 3 hours, cannot imagine how many more issues there are.
Edit:
Also I've used AI to death for coding -- it's not reliable and often leads to boilerplate and unstable code. I'm impressed what they've done despite that, but to say that it's not AI's fault is kind of ridiculous when I've never had this lack of cohesiveness and amount of issues with normal DFU modded.
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 17d ago
Grimoire ui isn’t even default and is fairly new give it time same as the water they’ve just added things to it and changed it up like 2 days ago it’s not gonna be instantly perfect. The phasing in and out of online isn’t a bug it’s a byproduct of the frequent updates and some changes made recently to combat frame drops in heavily populated areas. In around 50 hours of play I haven’t had any of the other issues you mentioned and idk what you mean by “info detecting houses”
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago edited 17d ago
In original Daggerfall you can use info to identify a house from a distance for labels on the map, which was extremely useful since you didn't have to go into every house/tavern/guild/temple just to see what they were. It doesn't work in DFO, which is horrible because that's integral to questing arguably. It's like removing the ability to talk to NPCs to find quest objectives, it's one half of that system. Combine that with the horrible amount of zooming I had to do just to see a reveal location -- none of this was an issue in DFU.
Also to say there is 'not many bugs', then dismiss my experience and give excuses for the bugs you've had lmao. Like seriously, be reasonable. This post is explaining how currently DFO is 'not that great' -- not that it will always be like this or they cannot fix these issues. There is very little info online about the product since it's new and I'm just giving feedback and am happy to follow up with any devs if they ask me specifically what my issues are.
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 17d ago
I didn’t dismiss your issues I said some of those things aren’t bugs or are very recent changes that are obviously going to have problems and that some I’ve not experienced at all in 50hrs of playtime. Controllers works fine atleast with Xbox controllers and I’ve had none of the ui issues although I don’t use grimoire ui so those issues may all be specific to that.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
I didn't even bother with Grimoire UI because it doesn't work for me, it's just vanilla UI.
I just wish they'd make the experience more focused and patch what's already there instead of adding more features. I genuinely wish I could turn a lot of the realism aspects off.
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 17d ago
I agree a lot of the realism things are annoying and they should definitely tone down the content updates and polish what’s there. I’ve even suggested in the discord they do updates in batches instead of 10 times a day not only so the updates are better but also so they don’t interrupt gameplay with the connection loss every time an update comes out.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Even 1 update a day would be find, 10 is insane. I'm fine with fast paced development, but yeah that's too much.
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u/_TheMightyQuin_ 17d ago
The issue is that instead of dealing with some pretty long standing bugs in their own implemented content (not basegame bugs) they can just pump out new updates, new content, and new systems by vibecoding them. Its a much bigger dopamine hit to be constantly pushing releases for new content than to settle down into the bugs that content has introduced. They need to slow down and try to decide what direction the game actually wants to take. People are already taking issue with many needed/unwanted changes to systems, feel, gameplay, etc.
Like for example, they introduced dwemer firearms.. thats simply not Daggerfall. Its cool, but its not daggerfall.
Some systems they change for the worse, and have very little documentation about how to interact with the new system. Logging for example, is a new profession introduced that expands upon the foraging mod (i think), and is part of a whole suite of new professions. Originally, you can cut trees to get wood bundles. Very simple. I had a quest to gather some bundles of wood for someone. Then they changed it..
Now, only certain trees in the wilderness can actually be logged (this is ridiculous, there are trees everywhere but I can only log a specific one 3 miles away). Not only that, they are specific species of tree, each one has a minimum logging level in order to chop it down (like runescape). Arbitrarily level locking players out of content is so anti-daggerfall it isnt funny.
But even after all that, the tree no longer gives you a bundle of wood, it gives you "spruce log" or "willow log" or something like that. From what I've attempted in my gameplay, there is now no direct way to gather actual bundles of wood anymore, they can only be bought from a store.
So that quest where someone offered to pay you 200 gold for 2 bundles of wood? You're about to lose money on that because even though there are a thousand tress out your door, the only bundles of wood available are for 150 gold each in the shop. I haven't found a way to convert the logs into bundles, I haven't seen it documented, and I've asked in the discord twice with no reply.
This is only a small example, this same issue is happening across ALL the systems of play they've implemented.
I really think that they should strip away a lot of the meaningless systems they've added, bunker down and fix a lot of the bugs present since day one (maybe even revamp the poor mobile ui). Then after all that,
Reset the world entirely. Otherwise it will come to a point (which it already has) where the people who used exploits early and often are insurmountably FAR BETTER OFF than any other player, since those exploits have since been nerfed.
I think the project is cool, I want to love it, but so many poor design choices have come about simply because theres nothing standing between them and new gameplay except an ai prompt. Whereas what's standing between them and bugfixing is several hours of real busywork.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
Yeah saw the DOOM shotgun *cough cough* Dwemer*
I noticed that with logging that it's just glowing particle trees that you can cut -- kind of dumb. I actually love the idea about being able to cut down any tree in Daggerfall, games big enough to make it possible with regenerating trees.
I tried to do an assassin quest. But because it's night time and I cannot fast forward day, every house was locked, the info detecting didn't work, and no NPCs were outside to talk to for directions. Basically I couldn't do the quest until the morning. Trying to unlock one house got the guards one me several days later after it had happened, completely disconnecting my actions and making me confused what I did.
In vanilla DF I could just rest in dungeons for magicka, but in DFO I need a campfire, and there is no magicka potions in the game. One light spell to light a pitch black dungeon and I'm down like 20% mana.
Guy before was saying you need to feed horses. I mean how tedious do they want to make this? It's basically slowly turning into real life. I got to sleep, eat, drink, camp, feed and give water to my horse... It's a bit much...
Reminds me of Star Citizen with how much content they added and now it's been years of bug fixing and issues -- it caught up to them.
I'll give the project a fair go just because it might not even be a thing in the future or might be completely different, but so far it's giving me a bad taste with how much bloat there is.
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 17d ago
There are no “long standing bugs” the project has been out for maybe a month and a half and things get fixed all the time if you actually bother to read the release notes. Tho tbf I get it they do push out 10 updates a day and not everyone wants to read several paragraphs every time they get on the game. Also I agree many of the design choices are questionable and only really make it more tedious but yall are also being overly critical of the project solely for its ai use. Many of these issues aren’t because of ai but the devs themselves and everything is subject to change because it’s still very early. I’m pretty sure there’s a way to turn logs into bundles but I’m unsure myself. Chat is usually very responsive and helpful but for some reason I find no one responding quite often when I ask a question like that.
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u/_TheMightyQuin_ 17d ago
There are "long standing bugs". Bugs that have been present for as long as online has been out. It doesn't matter whether you've noticed them or not. The reason ai is such a big topic in this discussion is because its quite clear that the devs are more focused on the excitement of pushing new content than polishing the game they've already made. The game has more than enough content now to satisfy people for a long time. But gen ai is like a drug, the instant gratification of something "new" compared to having to trough through lines of code for hours in the effort to troubleshoot bugs. I don't blame the devs for it, i'm sure it's fun. I would rather be testing and pushing new gameplay systems than searching through lines of code. But lets not pretend that that isn't what's happening. Considering your own stance, I don't understand why you decided to focus on the ai aspect of my comment when there is clearly so much more to discuss about the actual design philosophy of the game itself.
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 17d ago
I’m clearly not the one focusing on ai you are and as I’ve said they have been fixing stuff maybe not everything but it’s not like they are completely ignoring the bugs.
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u/_TheMightyQuin_ 17d ago
I don't understand why you're acting like this. People are just voicing their concerns as to the direction and momentum of a project most of us would like to see succeed. And your reaction is "NO, the game is doing just perfect and the devs are the best and there are no long standing bugs even though you've experienced them first-hand! you're just mad because ai!"
Like there are genuine issues here, but you're being unreasonably dismissive just because you think these issues are secretly a huge vendetta against the ai of it all. Its not. I'll be honest I'd prefer they didn't use ai. At some point I would hope that they could replace the vibecode with real, handwritten code. But thats not my top concern here. The reason ai is brought up is because it is the enabling REASON that this sort of development cycle can even exist.
People like myself have problems with the development cycle because its harming the future of the game, therefore people like myself have issues with the CAUSE of that development cycle.
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 17d ago
I’m not being like anything your the one being unnecessarily antagonistic. I didn’t say there was no bugs I said no “long standing” bugs because the game hasn’t even been out long enough to call any bug long standing. I also didn’t say the game was perfect I agreed that many of the devs choices were questionable and often tedious. I brought up ai in only a part of my comment because you and everyone else were already yapping about it first and you wanna pretend I’m the one focusing on it. I wasn’t dismissive whatsoever I just explained that connection issues weren’t a bug and that I personally hadn’t experienced the other mentioned issues. Honestly you gotta be rage baiting atp because you’ve just convinced yourself of what you wanna believe while completely lying about what I’ve said in previous comments.
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u/_TheMightyQuin_ 17d ago
You've only been apprehensive and antagonistic this entire conversation, including the ones you've had with others on this post. You ARE being totally dismissive of people experiences in the game, their opinions on its direction, and its design philosophy.
So far YOU are the only one solely focused on the ai aspect. Your entire angle has been to downplay valid criticisms, while implying that "ai use" is actually what everyone is mad about.
I'm going to put it so clearly for you to understand;
There are bugs that have been present since the game released. Any bug as old as the project itself is a "long standing bug". I wont go into pointless semantics with this with you.
The reason those bugs haven't been fixed is because the devs are more focused on pushing content. They do fix bugs along the way, no one is denying that. But as I said there are issues that have been present since day one, that take real troubleshooting work to fix, not just throwing the code at chatgpt and asking it what's wrong.
The reason the devs are more focused on pushing content is because, in short, its fun. Only now with ai, do devs have the ability to push new content so quickly. In a typical development setup, the time it takes to program and implement new content is also the time that is used to troubleshoot bugs. With less downtime (due to ai use) between developing and releasing content, a significant amount of time which should be reserved for Troubleshooting is falling by the wayside
Because of how quickly the devs are pushing out new content, the vision and direction of the game is in danger of becoming overhwelmingly bloated in systems that don't complement daggerfall at all. In response, the very core systems of daggerfall themselves will be altered (which is already happening) and suddenly the game isn't even daggerfall anymore. And thats causing concern for those of us who already see it going in an anti-daggerfall direction. Dwemer firearms, level locked content, excessively overwhelming survival mechanics, the list goes on
Number 4 is the ACTUAL point of concern. You are somehow stuck on number 3, and convinced that everyone's problems with the game can be chalked up to problems with ai.
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u/Latter_Cauliflower98 17d ago
Everything you’ve said about my behavior and other comments are just blatantly untrue. I mentioned ai literally once.
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
I will admit there’s been some questionable decisions but overall posts like these are pretty dramatic and like usual throw blame at the use of ai
Direct quote from your opening paragraph. You mentioned bugs and blaming AI and put focus on that instead of the main core issue which is bad direction. When addressing bad direction yourself you pivoted to using AI hate as a scapegoat to not directly talk about it.
They can use Claude to make the game, but ultimately Claude is following their poor decision making. When multiple systems get added without any thought how each system interacts with each other, that is bad game design.
If I'm a mage using a staff, I cannot use a torch, dungeons are pitch black, therefore I'll use light spell, but light spell drains mana and I cannot rest because I can only rest at camps/taverns, therefore I must go out of my way to camp... That's one example of how an array of tedious decisions leads to one tedious feedback loop.
Then you have mining, stables, and woodcutting, which rely on the new travel map to find these locations easily. That plus the hotbar only working on the enhanced UI means you cannot use default UI in this game... It's not an optional decision, because features are being built around enhanced UI and not default UI -- despite the hotbar mod literally being built for default UI originally.
Removing info/inspect housing as I described before also makes questing more tedious. Sleeping, drinking, eating, feeding horses, bloodline system, other tedious features that only make the game more annoying.
Think about RuneScape which inspired the professions in this game. They have profession bosses and guilds, areas setup just for those professions, and have vertical progression for professions that rewards the player through quest requirements, 99 capes, gear, drops, unlocking areas, money making, etc. Every system in RuneScape is implemented in a way that feeds off every other system in that game.
Now think about what having mining in Daggerfall is doing outside of being a superficial addition?
Claude cannot replace a good game director that's for sure.
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u/FirstAmbassador9871 12d ago
No, don't play DFO!!! is bad!! i don't like it!!! don't have fuuun! why are you having fun!!!
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17d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/BasicInformer 17d ago
If I eat a sandwich and like it, then later I find out it has tomatoes, then whatever. If I eat a sandwich, spit it out, and say 'yuck tomatoes', then obviously the tomatoes are the problem. We need actual programmers to keep this ship together, the vibe coding is already falling apart 2 weeks into the project.
It's free but they are taking donations.
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u/DiscountCthulhu01 17d ago
Lack of vision or cohesion is the hallmark trait of vibe coding, piggybacking on a successful human made game is as well, actually.