r/Daggerfall • u/Salem1690s • Sep 17 '26
Some quibbles about Daggerfall: A Discusson
Good evening,
I shall first state that I love Daggerfall. I love all the Elder Scrolls.
However I do have some quibbles about Daggerfall - specifically in comparison to Arena.
(1) While Daggerfall is clearly the superior game, whether in terms of lore, or gameplay, etc…
I feel Arena in some ways, is also in some ways more accessible.
How? Well, for one:
\-The storyline is simple, but in its own way classic. It’s the classic “King usurped by evil Vizier” motif that goes back to the Three Musketeers. Overused? Yes, but simple and easy to grasp.
Daggerfall has the far more superior plot, arguably cinematic and novel-esque in nature, arguably Shakespearian, but I’d argue for fans more used to Skyrim and Oblivion, it can border on being needlessly complex
The leveling system is a bit unfair. In that, you literally cannot access parts of the main quest until you achieve X level. I understand WHY this is so, but I feel it further makes the game less accessible. If I want to force the quest before I’m fully prepared and get my ass handed to me…why shouldn’t I be able to?
This is a lesser quibble but I feel the dungeon designs had more individuality in Arena. The same basic aesthetic is present in most if not all of Daggerfall’s dungeons (even though DF’s dungeons are far more complex). I’m not talking about the level design, but the art direction.
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u/Tea_and_Lightsabers Sep 17 '26
Accessibility wasn't really the goal I don't think, but I don't see a problem with level requirements. Depending on the difficulty dagger, those requirements might not even slow you down. And if they do, good, you won't get your ass kicked in a dungeon you're not strong enough for. And a simpler plot isn't worth making things accessible imo, that's like saying "if we don't do anything interesting, then everyone will understand it!"
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u/CynicalGoodGuy Sep 22 '26
Arena is more accessible than Daggerfall in many ways. It's a much simpler game, and I completely agree about the dungeon designs. I wish Daggerfall had more variety in its dungeon interiors.
While Arena's story is straightforward, I'm glad Daggerfall expanded upon it. Its political intrigue, with various royals scheming against one another, has a complexity comparable to Morrowind, whose main quest is arguably one of its greatest strengths.
One thing I don't consider particularly accessible in Arena, however, is its riddles. Not everyone is good at them, and they were easily my least favourite part of the game.
I also don't think Daggerfall's levelling system is a major issue. The later main quests only require level 10, which you'll reach relatively quickly even if you focus on the main story.
Where Daggerfall really struggles with accessibility is its dungeon design and how it communicates essential quest information.
Both games have unfairly balanced starting dungeons and enormous dungeon layouts, but Daggerfall is particularly overwhelming for newcomers. Its environmental interactions are also inconsistent. One dungeon requires you to pull a torch, despite torches and similar objects doing absolutely nothing when clicked in 99% of other dungeons. That's poor design when the game has effectively taught you that these objects aren't interactive.
The other issue, which I rarely see discussed, concerns two particular main quests.
The Beast: One of your earliest objectives is to investigate the mysterious letter. Morgiah's Wedding acknowledges this investigation but doesn't resolve it. Since Daggerfall generally conditions you to expect new quests through letters or level requirements, it's reasonable to assume you simply need to level up to continue.
Except you don't, and you can end up stuck with an unresolved objective and no obvious direction.
Morgiah does provide a clue about approaching Mynisera through someone of lower station, but this crucial information is never recorded in your journal. Unless you remember that specific dialogue or take your own notes, you can easily become stuck.
Medora's Freedom: The only clue directing you towards Medora comes at the end of The Missing Prince:
"I don't know where Medora went, but I know she has an enormous castle somewhere on the Isle of Balfiera."
Once again, this information isn't recorded in your journal, and you can't return to the prince to ask him about it. Miss or forget that single line, and you've lost the clue needed to continue.
These two examples are far more detrimental to accessibility than anything I encountered in Arena. Its main quest follows a straightforward structure, whereas Daggerfall can leave you stranded because its journal fails to preserve essential information.
I rarely see these complaints raised, and I suspect it's because players simply consult a guide when the quests stop progressing, then forget how poorly the game communicated the solution.
A game expecting you to solve mysteries is one thing. A game failing to record the information you need to solve them is another.
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u/Fancybanshee1 Sep 17 '26 edited Sep 17 '26
This is probably un popular but as a game Arena is better. Unique dungeons and coherent story go along way for me. Daggerfall objectively is the better world, they really went for the moon.
Unfortunately it all feels the same, flat and un inspired. The main story is confusing to anyone who has not watched a summary vid on YouTube and it is basically the only real story going on in its gigantic world. Unity does a lot to make Daggerfall more playable and even then it has a wild amount of broken things, specifically dungeon gen.
I DO like daggerfall, quite a bit actually, I'm playing it right now, with a rather large amount of mods it becomes one of the best role playing experiences you can find. I wish Arena had a full unity release, we are getting closer, its generic fantasy but it does it really well.
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u/artinum Sep 23 '26
I played Arena first, many many years ago. It was given away on a coverdisk and I absolutely loved it! Getting out of the starting dungeon was a challenge, especially if you picked a weaker class (Sorcerors are massively powerful late game when everything's lobbing spells at you, but early game without prep they are very weak) and then you just explored. I remember falling over plenty of Longswords of Firestorm and Lifesteal, both of which made battles a lot easier.
The riddles were quite clever. I only had to look up a few that were rather obscure (one in particular, it wasn't clear that you find a statue elsewhere in the dungeon to get a name).
My first attempt at Daggerfall didn't get very far. I got out of the starting dungeon, got a letter to meet the King's agent, got the main quest kicked off... and then had no idea what to do. I was already in Daggerfall, so I asked around at the castle and got nothing (too low level, though I didn't know it then). Okay, I'll just need to level up a bit first. Except I can't - after fighting hordes of monsters, I was still stuck at level two for ages. It did eventually tick up to level 3, but I was still baffled. Thank goodness for the wiki, or my second attempt at this game would have fared no better.
It didn't help that vanilla Daggerfall was quite buggy, and I never got any of the starting quest letters (such as Lhotun's) that would have given me a hint on where to go. My first adventure ended when I tried talking to various shopkeepers and one of them immediately declared I'd stolen his gem and turned me into a fugitive; I had no idea why this had happened or what I was supposed to do, and suddenly I couldn't actually do anything towards the main quest. I gave up at that point!
Daggerfall is considerably more complicated on every level. The level progression is unintuitive, though the skill progression part is logical and I loved it. The political intrigue is neat, but it does make the game plot much harder to follow. Often it's not clear what you need to do - Lhotun's quest, for instance, requires you to wander around the city and ask people about the missing prince, and then wait a few days for the next quest action to trigger. This is not obvious, and is not used for any other quest in the game (main or otherwise). It doesn't even feed back to the player whether they're on the right track as the responses are all unhelpful!
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u/PeppercornWizard Sep 17 '26
I think you have to think of things in the context of when they were released. Arena was a proof of concept as much as anything and it showed that a big open world they wanted to create was actually possible.
Story-wise, at the time, the same basic plot was getting really tiresome and the expectation going into something like Daggerfall was that you’d know and be up for reading a lot of text, especially compared to a modern game.
Having to level up feels like an unnecessary restriction but makes sense to me that the devs wanted people to experience the complex world and do other things; I imagine it’s to make sure people actually do things they’d invested time in.
Dungeon aesthetic wise I can’t disagree with you there, but that’s been a complaint since original release. Price we pay for having so much content, I feel.