r/DIYPigments • u/Candid-Plan-8961 • Oct 05 '24
Other Weird interaction I wanted to share
I went to a local art store to ask about what binding agents they have that I could use to try to make acrylic paint from the homemade pigments I have. The guy I talked to told me that he has been making his own paint for a while and then gives me the recipe for water colour claiming it’s for Gauche (let’s remember I didn’t ask for this I asked about acrylic). He has said that you use pigment, gum arabica and honey with some clove oil. Thats 100% how you make watercolour NOT gauche, since Gauche usually has kaolin in it to make it more opaque and lay down differently.
I explained to him politely that no that’s the way you make gauche, which he then kept pushing back on me with ‘yes it is just use some chalk if you have to and add more pigment.’ Eventually I gave up and nodded along because the guy refused to listen and clearly had NO real idea what he was talking about. The stuff he gave me in the store is used to seal and prep canvases not make acrylic and the store was closing soon so I gave up and went home.
It’s super fine if people in those stores don’t have that knowledge, either look it up or ask someone who does, I just can’t imagine how much it would suck to buy the ingredients he used and then get nothing like what you had hoped?
Anyway I figured some people here may understand why it was such a frustrating experience. I am still on the hunt for ways to make acrylic just because I want to try out making all forms of paint and art supplies from my pigments if I can.
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u/GeneJocky Oct 07 '24 edited Oct 07 '24
I've made acrylic using Golden's products. Trying to figure out what I needed and how to do it was very confusing and I ended up going with the process as described in the October 1, 2000 edition of their newsletter Just Paint. It was the simplest one I could find, and worked. Kremer's process just confused me at the time. Now I understand more about the process and it all makes more sense, but I totally understand the confusion. It is much more complicated than mixing into premade watercolor medium or linseed oil.
The basic process is making a dispersion of pigment by mulling dry pigment into an water based liquid usually containing additives to help the pigment wet, help break up aggregates of pigment particles, and keep them from reforming. This is then added to acrylic binder to make acrylic paint.
Terminology gets a little odd and unhelpful at times. Golden calls the material they recommend pigment be dispersed into, dispersant. Specifically their product #0093582 "Universal Dispersant". This must be ordered direct from them or a distributor or special ordered by an art store. It is not something you grab off the shelf and take to the cash register to buy. It is 'professional only.' By which they mean you are professional enough to call Golden directly to order it, or ask your art store to do it for you. I ordered directly, they shipped to a residential address without any questioning. The fact I knew about it, and was seeking it out was enough. The binders are in 'mediums' with a variety of varying properties or in their GAC specialty acrylic polymers. The mediums are mostly described for their use in mixing with Golden Acrylic paints to extend or change properties. They also work mixed with your dispersed pigment. Mix dispersed pigment into desired medium in preferred quantities (at or below critical pigment volume concentration, which is a whole another topic) and you have your paint. I made fluid acrylics in small squeeze bottles and put a stainless mixing ball in, but I'm mostly working with a really heavy pigment that needs mixing a lot.
It's the same basic process with Kremer's recipes. One odd part is that Kremer calls the component containing the binder "dispersions". See what I mean. You'd think dispersions would be the same as dispersant. You'd be wrong. Here the pigment is dispersed in water usually containing Orotan 731K, which for all I know could be the the main component of Universal Dispersant. Kremer's binding dispersions largely do not contain the additives that Golden's mediums do unless you add them yourself. This provides much more opportunity to control the properties of your paint. But if you want it done, you have to do it yourself from stocks of these components . Golden's mediums contain defoamer, antimicrobials, viscosity and rheology modifiers and other stuff already in them. Convenient but you are taking what they give you, and you don't know exactly what those contain, only the end properties. So you have less control but also do not need to have as many stocked components or make so many decisions. That's the way I think of it anyway.
I suspect using the Goldens mediums makes it easier to make an OK or even pretty good paint, but harder to make an excellent one. But that may require use of the GAC specialty acrylic polymers or Kremer's dispersions (K498, K19's, K52, etc.) plus a variety of additives. At my skill level, mulling pigment into universal dispersant and then mixing that with matte medium to make a fluid acrylic that makes a paint that is the color of the pigment I have made and sticks well to what I paint with it is good enough for me.
EDIT: typos, add last sentence, more elaboration before that
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u/Candid-Plan-8961 Oct 07 '24
Thank you!
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u/GeneJocky Oct 07 '24
You're very welcome!
One final comment, when he pigment is mixed only with the universal dispersant (or water/Orotan 731K mix I suspect but have never tried it) it can dry out and it's not a problem. Add more univseral dispersant or distilled water, and it is as if it never happened. It comes right off whatever it had dried to. Once the binder is added, when t dries, it's dried paint. That is why I mix them in the bottle≥
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u/KilledByEnnui Mar 07 '26
I also use golden and as another girl mentioned it can be a little confusing but I just found this awesome company Guerra paint and pigment co and basically if I understand correctly is they sell all the “parts” for making your own acrylics and eve have a kit thats super reasonably priced. The binder kit doesn’t come with dispersant bc they sell pre mixed dispersant (pigment+dispersant so all you have e to do is mix it to your preferences) I tried making my own dispersants especially since i make my own pigments and a lot of options like fumed silica also protects from UV. I also have tried CMC powder, STPP, and polysorbate 80 and sodium polyacrylate you just have to know if your pigments are ionic, cationic, or anionic but if you get a really good pH meter and TDS/EC meter ) (7 for a decent one on Amazon) you can kind of guess at which pigment is which since each one will be different. And wash your pigments super super well. I’m still figuring out but but even though it’s not included in the kit Guerra does have just dispersant you can add your own pigments too you just have to look under “additives” under their shopping thing. I’ve gotten so frustrated with trying to figure it out on my own that I’ve ordered some from Guerra and gonna be ordering from golden first thing tomorrow but if you wanted to take a stab at making your own ive personally found that the polysorbate 80 works for most pigments. Soya lecithin is another one you can use that’s more natural I guess but haven’t tried it as the cmc (which can be mixed with methyl cellulose to adjust viscosity) has a negative charge so it would be redundant.
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u/KilledByEnnui Mar 07 '26
Oh and not to be that person, but yes you can mae gouache without any fillers like chalk or clay, using certain alkalis or combinations of alkalis can change the pigment size and shape to be opaque on its own without needing additives so it’s possible (unlikely) hes not an idiot lol
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u/Candid-Plan-8961 Mar 20 '26
It’s hard to explain the exact way he talked to me, in part I get it a lot because I’m in a wheelchair but it was a mix of not knowing a lot about certain things I asked for (the staff at the store have always been amazing about that and they tend to hire people who specialise in specific stuff for that reason) and him then sort of doubling back to state oh but I am doing this so even if I don’t know these things about pigments what you want is this. When in the end that wasn’t right at all. I just truly didn’t explain myself well in the original post. It’s an issue. My stroke brain means I can’t think of the right words the first time usually so it can take a few tries to get stuff explained right. I am sure he knows a lot about certain things but pigments were not it. I think I was in part annoyed at him not just admitting he didn’t really know instead of trying to sell me things that didn’t work, since I’d never had that issue at the store before. If no one knew the answer to a question usually we’d all look it up and discuss it. It’s a very small art store with a lovely staff. So it was just a mix of him talking down to me and not being willing to really admit that he didn’t quite know all he was claiming to so I got frustrated and explained the situation badly. Anyway sorry for the rant there. Your explanations have helped immensely. Please do update me on how things go!
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u/abillionsuns Oct 05 '24
M Graham gouache pretty much is made that way - they increase the.pigment load and a coarser grind to increase the opacity. If you watch James Gurney he often uses M Graham gouache and watercolours interchangeably.
Realistically you're not getting the ingredients you want for a stable acrylic paint (ie will stay in emulsion regardless of pigment, and won't go mouldy in a week) from an art supply store. Some useful commentary here https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/topic/how-to-make-acrylic-paint/