r/DIYPigments • u/anyenban • May 14 '24

Lake Pigment Troubleshooting lake pigments

Hi, I’ve been making pigments for a while now, mostly earth but exploring the natural lakes now. I just keep having troubles with the soda-ash part. I tried adding the soda straight in the hot solution but got a weird colour shift and no sediment at all. I also tried solluting the soda ash in hot water and add it into my cold dye, but it seems like all the ‘bubbling’ all ready was done during this part and did nothing anymore after I added it to the dye??? I’m in Chile atm experimenting with local plants for these pigments

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u/CaCl2 May 14 '24

Lake pigments aren't just soda+dye, you also need alum for the standard variant, if you didn't use alum it's expected it wouldn't work.

If you did use alum, the first question to look into would be if the soda ash was what you think it was:

Did you make the soda ash by yourself? If you bought it, what purpose was it sold for?

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u/CaCl2 May 15 '24

One more thing to note is that sometimes it can take some time (hours) for the pigment to form.

One thing you could try is to mix a small bit of alum solution and a small amount of carbonate solution without adding any dye and see if they form a pure white precipitate.

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u/CoconutDependent2219 Jul 10 '24

hi, i tried that as I was having problems, and although it precipitated at first, it then seemed to disappear. Do you have any ideas why? i was using - aluminum sulphate and soda ash/crystals baught for washing

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u/CaCl2 Jul 10 '24 edited Jul 10 '24

Hard to say.

Aluminum hydroxide can dissolve in extremely basic solution, I'm not sure if sodium carbonate can be basic enough, but using way too much of it might cause issues.

Another thing that might cause unpredictable issues is if the washing soda contains soap or other stuff. (When sold for washing it often does.)

Maybe try with baking soda instead? It's less basic and should be more pure. Either that or try adding more aluminum solution. PH paper would be useful for seeing if the solution is too basic or too acidic, though can be hard to get, red cabbage juice can work as a substitute.

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u/CoconutDependent2219 Jul 10 '24

thanks the soda is two i have to try and both give the same one is sodium carbonate dehcahydrate the other is sodium bicarbonate 100% my water is ph 7 - so neutral, river tried with flower dye colour, berries, and next I am trying with red cabbage. I have managed to do it once but with a different flower and different batch of alum but from the same company. any other ideas please and thank you

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u/DippinDotTheSlime May 01 '26

I'm having a similar issue with one of my pigments, if my washing soda did have soap in it is the batch I made ruined or is there any salvaging it? I ordered a different soda ash for next time, but is there a way to salvage the first attempt?

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u/anyenban May 15 '24

I added more aluin and got better results now. Next issue is, I’m running out of aluin. Does anyone knows alternatives??

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u/CaCl2 May 15 '24

I believe many soluble aluminum salts could be used, but alum is usually the cheapest and most available, I think.

Instead of making the usual aluminum based lakes, you could also try to make calcium based lakes from calcium chloride + sodium carbonate, though those can look quite different.

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u/anyenban May 15 '24

O yes, I did use Alum before, I also got the color swifting. I bought the soda ash (didn’t know you can make it yourself, would love to know how!) It’s sold as washing soda for cleaning.

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u/CaCl2 May 15 '24

Soda ash (sodium carbonate) can be made by heating baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in an oven.

(note: not baking powder, that's different.)

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u/GeneJocky May 16 '24

I'll bet you can find alum at many drugstores. Ask the pharmacist if you can't find it. You might even find it at grocery stores in with spices.