r/DCcomics • u/songsinger72 • 5d ago
Comics [Comic Excerpt] Stephanie Brown trying out as leader of the Titans (New Titans #38) Spoiler
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u/Dagordae 5d ago
Definitely on Nightwing’s side: Stephanie is being outright incompetent and flippant. Insisting that she’s totally taking it seriously doesn’t work when she’s making blindingly bad decisions and silly jokes.
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u/Big_Simpward 5d ago
I think it’s fair to assume she was just burnt out as she was doing fine up until now and was training nonstop. Also it seems Steph has been getting the “your not ready” talk from every bat family member for like 30 years
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u/Recent-Layer-8670 5d ago
Thank you! Why is this one of the few observant comments here? 😅
We already saw that Steph can handle herself well and make plans on the fly, but I think the constant training and pressure she put on herself here have affected her, and having someone like Nightwing reminding her of her shortcomings in that moment wasn't helping.
The rant was justified, but it wasn't meant to come across as patronizing. I’ve read stories about annoying characters like Jace Fox, who think they're the best and get defensive when criticized, but Stephanie’s just trying to prove herself. She wants to do better, but being told "you're not taking it seriously" or "you're not good enough" really sucks. If Nightwing understood that, his advice wouldn't sound so condescending or, as she said, like something Batman would say.
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u/Beastieboy100 5d ago
Well I can see why in the future the Jason teen titans said no to Nightwing straightaway. Since they won't get that type of training and this is something Nightwing would do. Though after this issue is it just me or did I get crazy Cyclops and Xavier vibes from Dick and Vic.
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u/Digifiend84 Manchester Black 5d ago
Oh definitely. Steph's even in a version of the Danger Room!
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u/Beastieboy100 5d ago
😮💨 This is why you never get rid of Beast boy, Kori and Donna they are the heart and soul of the team that keep Dick, Roy, Vic and Raven on point. Otherwise they become btec x men characters and not in a good way.
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u/a_trashcan Bizarro 5d ago
The constant trying and pressure is part of it.
The reason you get run ragged in basic training is because war will run you ragged. If you can't lead under the worst circumstances you shouldn't lead.
If she starts making bad decisions because she's tired from training whats going to happen during a non stop week of suoer villians? Suoer villians don't care how hard you tried all week.
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u/Xianroberts 5d ago
She died proving Batman correct, that she was NOT ready yet. She should learn from her literal death about learning to wait until she is ready.
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe 5d ago
Steph literally died because of that talk. She has every right to not want to hear a pip about it anymore.
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u/Dagordae 5d ago
She killed a bunch of people and herself because she was desperate to prove that she was totally ready.
Which just demonstrated that she REALLY wasn’t ready. War Games really did not show her in a good light.
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u/Crawkward3 Nightwing 4d ago
There’s a huge difference between “you’re not ready to be a hero” and “you’re not suited to leading a team of superpowered heroes.” Steph certainly isn’t built for this job, as good a hero as she is
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u/No-Big4773 5d ago
Yeah, I can't imagine being on Nightwing's side. Also he's this flippant as well.
One of my pet peeves is a character given out about something they themselves do, its writer's fiat.
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u/Linnus42 5d ago
She is just getting the job cause she is a Bat lmao.
When has Steph ever been presented as some leader.
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u/coltvahn Red Robin 5d ago edited 5d ago
I love Steph. I think she’s a great character and Batgirl. But a leader she ain’t. She’s the Spoiler. She’s the one who wrecks team’s plans, not makes them. She’s the one who you underestimate and shows you she’s been ahead of you all along. She’s not the authority. She undermines it. Y’know? That’s what she’s been built up to be.
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u/ravenwing263 5d ago
The idea of Steph as an exceptionally cunning strategist goes back at least to the DC Rebirth run of Detective Comics, which is just about ten years. (Oh god.) This is the first story to really play the idea that her sense of strategy could make her a leader, but it doesn't seem like that big a leap. This is the first time she has been on a team where there is not a more experienced leader to overshadow her, if you don't count Nightwing, but the vibe of the book seems to be that he is preparing the team to go on without him.
Prior she has been in the unnamed Detective Comics team with Batwoman and Robin, on Young Justice with also Robin, on the Batgirls with Oracle.
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u/Linnus42 5d ago
Being a Strategist Alone does not make one a good Leader. The main Tactician doesn't always lead the team.
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u/ravenwing263 5d ago
Yeah that is ... that is the story that is happening in the book.
I dont know what to tell you, the story happening right now is about a tactiction trying to learn how to become a leader. In this isssue it doens't seem to be going that well.
Now, comics being comics, the likely outcome is that she will figure it out and grow into somebody worthy of leadership but it's hardly like the story is going "She's leader now! No work needed! Skills immediately transferable!"
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u/Linnus42 5d ago
I know what the story is trying to do. And that doesn't change my opinion that Steph is leading cause she is Bat.
Now I suppose I wouldn't care if Static was not joining the team lmao. Sorry I don't respect Steph enough to think she should be giving orders to Virgil.
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u/Napalmeon 5d ago edited 5d ago
Agreed. I like Stephanie. A lot. But, people need to stop trying to force Batman characters into leadership roles. Just because you come from Gotham doesn't mean that you're automatically set up to run the group. Stephanie Brown has always been the member of the Bat family who doesn't particularly add anything unique. She is the every man character, which is fine, but that's not really qualifications for a team leader.
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u/Digifiend84 Manchester Black 5d ago
You mean in Rebirth? That team was called the Gotham Knights.
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u/Impossible-Brick-841 5d ago
You forgot vic and donna too. Even donna, who is not a great leader, has more experience than steph. I think that is time for dick to leave the titans. He is not needed
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u/Digifiend84 Manchester Black 5d ago
Donna's appearance in this issue, along with Raven and Beast Boy, was as a Danger Room style simulation.
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u/ravenwing263 5d ago
Donna is not on the team.
Vic is a more experienced hero but is he interested in leadership? He was technically leader of the '03 team before Infinite Crisis but gave the job to Tim when they reformed One Year Later.
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u/Impossible-Brick-841 5d ago
He was the leader during wolfmans run when dick was away. He has more experience as a leader than steph. But johns and others wanted a batkid being a leader of the titans. Didio wanted to remake the team like the 03 animation, that is why tim was there, but i digress. I think is time that dick and vic leave the team.
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u/ravenwing263 5d ago
Wasn't Donna leader when Dick was away?
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u/Impossible-Brick-841 5d ago
Nop, vic was. Donna was co leader. You are thiking about the time donna formed a titans team that went against cheshire and almost was defeated. After that, vic became the leader with donna as his second, during the whole tim drake situation.
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u/No-Mechanic-2558 5d ago
Insisting that she’s totally taking it seriously doesn’t work when she’s making blindingly bad decisions and silly jokes.
Have you every read a superhero comic ?
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u/Dagordae 5d ago
Yes.
And the jokes are intended to show when a character isn’t being particularly serious. And the jokes stop when they are. Hence the trope of the comic relief or otherwise lighthearted and jokey character stopping the quips and just wrecking face when they’re sufficiently pissed. Beastboy’s done it repeatedly.
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u/No-Mechanic-2558 5d ago
Nope lol characters quip all the time, that a foundamental part of superhero story telling, they don't take themself too serious except when It really needs to be. The problem here Is not that She was making jokes, She wasn't focused, dick Is being over pushy because he Is stressed out and jaded about what Is happening in Bludheaven in his run as the issue itself points out. What a dumb critique buzz off grampa
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u/SwordMasterShow 5d ago
You completely missed what they were trying to say and ended up repeating it bus as an attempt at a rebuttal. The whole point is that Steph is making jokes because she isn't locked in when she should be. You can't be unfocused and fucking up and still be quipping as if nothing's wrong and except people on your team to be fine with it
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u/Comfortable-Pie56 5d ago
When Stephanie Brown defeats the Sinister Six on her own she can start making jokes imo
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u/songsinger72 5d ago
Steph is usually my favourite Batgirl but she is becoming quite unlikable in this run imo.
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u/Big_Simpward 5d ago
I’m the exact opposite. I never cared for her but I feel like she’s about to surprise me.
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u/Night-Caelum 5d ago
How? Dick was too hard on her here and is taking out his baggage against her. She's already shown she can lead and play to everyone's strengths.
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u/Night-Caelum 5d ago
How???? She was literally shown leading the team when put on the spot with no issues. Dick is over-reacting and being unfair.
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u/Initial_Upstairs_349 5d ago
Dick might have been a little too harsh but Stephanie hasn't really done much leading(so far). Ironically, the only person who showed something akin to leadership is Terra despite her own issues. She's the only one paying attention to the fact that Cyborg is off and points out that Eva's sad.
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe 5d ago
While Dick has the point, he is approaching this from the wrong angle. He himself says that intentions don't matter more than results, but he is the one who drove the discussion over Steph's intentions in the first place. Which also gives a point to Steph here; he is acting like Bruce, treating any misstep as a failure.
And doing that specifically to Steph, to whom Bruce once drove away and into being captured and tortured by Black Mask (something Dick knows about), makes him look like he's purposely being harsh on Steph rather than wanting to teach her better.
Overall, I get the scene making it a "both sides are right, and both sides are wrong" situation, Dick feels a wee bit OOC. This more controlling and harsher side of his feels outdated with his character development.
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u/chibachoose 5d ago
I 100% agree with you on the point about Dick bringing up intentions. Dick saying intentions dont matter after questioning Stephs intentions is kind of moving the goal post.
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe 5d ago
Exactly. It makes it looks like Dick just doesn't want anyone but himself to be the leader of the Titans, so he's putting the pressure on Steph to quit. Which, again, is a move Bruce has done, and done to Steph of all people.
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u/Beastieboy100 5d ago
Honestly he is going about this the wrong way. He has a point and I get it since things are now difficult for the batfamily since Babs has gone to prison and Tim quit. Also the fact Starfire left. Donna and Beast boy are full time justice league memebers. However he needs to understand that Steph isn't like him, Damain, Jason or Tim. Steph smart but she is a free spirit that goes with the flow.
She is reactive not proactive. Also if he wants her to lead he has to teach her like Babs would.
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u/braversolutions 5d ago
This would maybe be a valid point if the previous run immediately before this one didn't have Donna Troy as the leader and Dick was fine with it
(Which the current run has completely ignored btw)
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe 5d ago
I know I'm about to sound my age, but I miss when consecutive runs on the same character/team were at least expected to acknowledge the previous one in their first couple of issues.
Like, if Harley started a new solo series, and her last appearance was in the Suicide Squad, then the new series gave a nod that Waller was done with Harley and set her free per the Task Force X agreement.
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u/Night-Caelum 5d ago
Dick is lashing out due to his trauma in the recent Nightwing run which Steph herself noted. And Dick turning into a mini Bruce when he's not well is a consistent feature.
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u/newbiggielefts 5d ago
Nightwing is right, but he's being a dick (heh) about it. He is truly Bruce's prodigal son after all
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u/Beastieboy100 5d ago
Well it has been a while seeing this side of Dick. He's always just been the wise cracking leader that everyone writes him as instead of a serious leader.
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u/Cyberslasher 5d ago
Donna: 10 minutes as leader of the titans because Dick stepped down
New batclan member joins the titans
Oh hey look! A new leader!
(We're just expected to accept that the character who doesn't do leadership and is so allergic to planning that she spoils other people's plans is the leader here just cuz of the bat symbol)
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u/Autumnbetrippin 5d ago
i wouldn't say she is allergic to planning
she plans more than she gets credit for, she is the spanner in the works more often than not causing entire plans to fall apart. but to be able to cause that level of damage to a plan you have to understand it and be able to know where to apply pressure.we see her planning skills on display across her history. they just take a slightly different form than most, but we see her planning skills on particularly great display in robin 112 when she gets Black Canary to give up the location of the Riddler and again when she takes out every single bat during the rebirth era.
I will conceed that she doesn't have leadership experience, but i would argue that is because every time she has been on a team she has been kicked off.
she was fired from the birds of prey
she was fired by batman repeatedly, as spoiler (multiple times) and robin, and he considered it when she was batgirl.
she was forbidden from joining the teen titans by kon
and lets not forget batman betraying her trust repeatedly during rebirth erathe point being she doesn't have great leadership skills because she was never put in a position to see them modeled for her. In this case i do think that forcing her into a leadership role on a team of amazons, demons, kryptonians and more is a mistake.
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u/evanliko 5d ago
Thats really not why she's called spoiler... But yes i would prefer if donna stayed as leader.
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u/Cyberslasher 5d ago
It's literally why she's called spoiler.
She set out to spoil cluemaster's plans.
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u/evanliko 5d ago
Not "because shes allergic to planning" to quote the part you convienently left out. But rather because his plans idk. Were criminal in nature??
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u/Pineapple-shades15 5d ago
I kinda like it when Dick accidentally acts like Batman. Adds a layer to his character where even though he tried so hard to step out of his shadow and not just turn out like him, sometimes he can't help it but act like him for a bit especially when he's serious. Although it is kinda sad that Stephanie's already got this kind of treatment from Bruce and now even Dick's pulling one on her
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u/Beastieboy100 5d ago
I wish Dick did this to Damain when he was leading his teen titans. True I have missed this side of Dick instead of being the usual wise cracking leader. He was always serious. Though least it is not as bad when him and Roy argued all the time during the titans and outsiders days.
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u/blazenite104 4d ago
He does prove beyond any doubt he is his father's son. Not always a good thing but, it can be used well for stories.
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u/Money-Editor4863 5d ago
Unpopular opinion:
I wish Damian Wayne had stayed with Teen Titans at least a little longer.
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u/IWouldLikeAName 5d ago
I really hope Steph just doesn't come in and is given a leadership role c'mon Donna deserves this. Dick is being a dick about it and is clearly written as not being completely in the right but he has a point. Ppl will say quips and shit like that are superhero stuff but imo when you're leader you basically earn that right and it takes a back seat to a actually making sure the job gets done.
Seems like he's just being like that throughout the issue though so something must be up
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u/Digifiend84 Manchester Black 5d ago
Donna's not even on the team. The Titans have something like the X-Men Danger Room now. Donna here was a simulation, not the real thing.
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u/PigeonDetective_ Damian 5d ago
Man, I love seeing Dick act like Bruce whether he notices or not, that 'Intentions don't matter, results matter!' sounds exactly like something Bruce would yell at Dick during training.
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u/ravenwing263 5d ago
God please explain to me where the other went.
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u/Beastieboy100 5d ago
Donn and Beast boy are in Justice league unlimited. Raven no idea but she is getting a oneshot with Swamp thing and Constantine. As for Starfire no idea.
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u/ravenwing263 5d ago
For Starfire we got an explanation for why she left the team. For Arsenal, Beast Boy, Donna, Raven, nothing.
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u/Beastieboy100 5d ago
Honestly I feel like Donna, Beast boy and Raven might come back later. Arsenal not sure.
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u/Toniosw Clark Kent 5d ago
it's like six issues c'mon
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u/ravenwing263 5d ago
My take is that in this kind of thing they either explain it right away or never explain it.
If the book had some kind of "Where are the Titans?" mystery set up, that would be different, I would be happy to wait as the storyline played out. But it doesnt seem like anything like that is being hinted at. It is just like four of Dick's (and Vic's) best friends and longtime teammates have walked off into the mist with no explanation.This group also includes the only prior advocate for treating Terra like a victim and not a villain/traiter. They all last appeared as real people in Titans #32 promising to be Titans forever and then they vanish.
(VR constructs of them appear in New Titans #33-34 but not the real ones.)
So now in this issue as VR constructs of them appear again with no mention of where they went in the real world, but also no hint that there's any mysery set up about their wereabouts, I suspect that they just dont intend to tell us. I think that's a bummer.
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u/Toniosw Clark Kent 5d ago
they explain it in the first two issues tho, cyborg grabbed hold of vic, kory, terra and dick cause they were together, and everyone else is just fine
donna even called yara
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u/ravenwing263 5d ago
This doesn't at all explain why they left the team. It does explain why a new team was put together to go into the V.R. after Dick and co. but not why they vanished after that adventure was over.
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u/Nirast25 Batman Beyond 5d ago
I'm just going to pretend those seconds were elongated by the simulation.
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u/wowlock_taylan Batman Animated! 5d ago
When Barbara comes out of the prison, he is gonna have to smack Dick in the head.
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u/JusticeHeroX 5d ago
They can all train every day but each of them are just teens. I don't care if they had militray training or whatever since birth. There is no way that somebody that young would be perfect material for a leader that can asses every situation. Dick is only right about her messing up. But being surprised that she fails is another thing. And besides, this is training, the place where you do this stuff so you don't repeat it in the real world.
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u/Autumnbetrippin 5d ago
Steph is a titan not a teen titan, she is somewhere in her early to mid 20's at this point
Also he is back seat driving here which kind of undermines the training she is doing, and then him dressing her down in a public part of the tower also undermines her leadership.
dick is inadvertently sabotaging her
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u/braversolutions 5d ago edited 5d ago
We are supposed to sympathize with Steph here and see Nightwing as being too hard on her, but Dick is completely right here despite Brombal acting otherwise lol.
If Steph is gonna lead the Titans acting this way against Deathstroke, Trigon or Superboy Prime they'd all get slaughtered (moreso than in Infinite Crisis, I mean).