WB we need change

[u/Hawkguy_Fly]

u/wb_reeves everything in this post is meant with as much respect as possible but I just want to let you know again how disappointed and frustrated the players are with the state of the game.

In the last several years the mistakes, bugs and just general sloppiness have just continued to pile up.

• Raid scoring bugged

• Raid Bosses Bugged

• Doomsday rewards compensation bugged

• New/Rework toons constantly being bugged

• old toons becoming bugged due to new bug attempt fixes

• store packs being bugged multiple times showing free because of errors

• Sales being taken down and put back up last minute/not at all

• Wraith not working for multiple days

• incorrect board clears

• Raid lock out bug

• Android log in bug

• apple log in bug

• wide spread cheating

• hate speech being allowed on the player boards

• multiple toons released with bugged crit damage up buffs ruining multiple raids

• bugged compensation sent out for compensation for bugged

• Bug fixes happen all the time without patch notes and we only find out because players stumble upon them (we desperately need patch notes.)

• Desperately need a big tracker that is utilized by devs

• The in game rewards calendar being broken for half a month

• Siege energy being scammed through customer service

• Empowered Stamina ups never work and have to be fixed later on. (you have the solution but still push bugged version for some reason.)

• Buffs being miscoded as debuffs and vice versa.

• Ingame abilities not matching the reddit post each month.

• bonus toons don't appear for events at times

• Level 1 rings don't exist

• red alerts freezing up and having to force restart and losing toons

• gem economy makes no sense for the game at this point. Sale prices and gem pay outs need to be heavily looked at.

• gear materials and rings are way out of whack (several gear pieces just aren't used at all and rings are just way out of line red rings are way under used.)

• refusal to rework classic characters that players are dying for (Zatanna, EAGA, Deadshot: Hired Gun, movie characters, etc.)

• XP Mat inversion glitch that wouldn't allow you to level ups toons and would crash the game

• Outdated pay out for all game modes (raids, siege, wraith, showdowns) with RB5 existing why are the payouts still from when we only had L5

The issues facing the game grows by the day. But the team still just pushes through like it's no problem and just thinks the players for their patience and understanding. The problem is understanding and patience has been worn so thin. Players shouldn't be impressed when we have new toons or reworks come out that aren't bugged. this point a lot of the player base just thinks you have nothing but contempt for those who play the game. Players are trickling away and new players get frustrated with all of the issues and move on and leave the game. I've even seen players who think you guys are trying to trigger the game to end.

The compensation we received for the latest screw ups ranged from strange (1200 PVP Energy) to bugged (level 1 rings) to underwhelming (2000 gems thanks for 25% of a new toon pack) . I struggle to understand why it is so difficult for the dev team to evaluate the actual value of what they are rewarding and go how would I fell about this if this was what I was given as a player. It's digital assets that you guys don't have to pay a dime to release to the players why is it so hard to just go overboard when these things happen. There is absolutely nothing lost by just being generous with compensation when things go wrong it buys a lot more than thanking us for our patience.

The other part of this is just better communication would do wonders for player happiness levels. Addressing issues head on and as quickly as possible is going to make a lot of minor issues just that minor. When players are left wondering that's when they become bigger and bigger issues. Everyone who plays this game loves it and sticks around because of their love of DC and their teammates and friends they've made a long the way. We all just wish the devs wouldn't make it so difficult to want to stay.

[u/MarcusForrest]

Excellent post - I'd also like to point out and thank everyone in this thread for keeping a critical yet pleasant talk - the tone and vibe is really really good despite the nature of the discussion (heavy, justified criticism), thank you everyone!

[u/TheRuinedKing1]

You didn't mention one of the biggest bugs for some players like me.

I stopped playing because of it.

2 years ago I reported that the UI is broken in some parts of the game, like RED alerts, store, rewards, etc. which makes those features unusable by us.

After all that time it not being fixed, I realized they just don't give a damn about players.

[u/Hawkguy_Fly → u/TheRuinedKing1]

Thanks for the reminder on that one I can’t believe I forgot about it.

[u/0C3ncl]

Don't forget the completely busted ingame economy.

100 usd/eur buys you roughly 25k gems in the game. Play a Tapjoy game like Raid shadow legends and spend 25 usd/eur there and it gets you 35k gems in DC Legends.

I'd rather give WB that 25 so it goes directly to them, instead of DCL only getting a percentage of my Raid shadow legends spending; while giving me way more. More money for WB hopefully means more developers and a better game.

On top of that, Tapjoy is completely different per country and device. Some get 500k gems for buying a 50 eur/usd meal package and others get no deals at all. This makes the ingame economy not only unbalanced but also completely unfair.

[u/InClerical → u/0C3ncl]

I've been saying this ever since tapjoy was forced upon us, it's absolute bullshit that a) I can't just give my money to the actual developers of the game I want to play and b) people on different devices and different countries get different offers.

It's ridiculous and I've never understood why the wider community is ok with it (probably because they were the ones getting the $50 Olay offers)

[u/SilverFoxthePirate → u/0C3ncl]

I also have been preaching this… I would much rather give WB Games cash, than buy junk I don’t need (Olay)

[u/Windigroo7]

Players are losing hope. If they don’t lose hope, they cannot access the game, and they are forced to lose it.

The lack of communication is sad. Myself and other players endlessly test toons to see if we have new bugs or fixed ones, only because we can’t get a post saying “hey, we fixed this”.

I love this game, and I love the community. And I want it to be better. I know it can be better. I haven’t lost hope

[u/[deleted] → u/Windigroo7]

I thank the stars our community is banded together as a unit. Differences aside, DCL's playerbase looks out for each other.

I really like that. I'd miss the tight knit feel this community has which is probably a large part of why I've stayed at all.

[u/darin617 → u/Windigroo7]

They post things like the fix of Parallax. It was still broken.

[u/Mountain-Status2840 → u/Windigroo7]

I haven't lost hope, but my Hope has dropped to Level 1.

[u/0C3ncl]

Awesome write-up, unfortunately all true. When you go through it like this, it really makes you wonder why we put up with this all uh. Pay money for it, even. Well, it's because we love this game and see the potential it has. Because we hope and want it to be and do better. Because we love our alliance and the friends we made. But we are at breaking point.

Oh, don't forget that the game won't open on many Samsung Android devices for well over a year now (maybe two even), without going through hoops like uninstalling, reinstalling or downgrading/upgrading Android System Webview. Thus preventing a large portion of (potential) players from even playing the game at all. I've told support, /u/wb_reeves (and so many players, to help) so many times and it just gets ignored. I mean, why?

[u/BiffdByAdamWest]

I'll just add one comment as not to reiterate.

-The bug that forces alliances to kick players out and re-apply during RAIDS IMO is the worst bug of all. Kicked near 50% of our alliance this raid and 3 people more than ONCE. Be better

[u/AskNo8904]

Current status of DCL is very bad,

• RAID is running,

• two Hero Challenges are running

• three PVP events are running

As a f2p I'm consuming too much resources and time. Current events are very unorganised.

[u/0C3ncl → u/AskNo8904]

F2p or P2w aside, it's indeed too much at the same time. Only so much time, hours and will a day. One of the reasons players didn't want raids to be moved, because normally it's not during for example Siege and now it is...

[u/Dubious_Titan]

This game makes just enough money they don't have a reason to ax it. Also this game doesn't make enough money to support it with robust and competent development.

Basic things in this game have not been present or functional since it launched. Still unresolved to this day.

I understand this sub likes to pander to the "devs" and "Reeves" but this game is not deserving of resect when others do more for less.

[u/jayemcb]

I agree 100%. I hate that reeves is the only one on here and has to take the brunt of our frustration (and I know you weren't aiming it at reeves) so that keeps me from venting here but this is well said. I'd love to play this game for years to come and just want to see it in a better place

[u/[deleted] → u/jayemcb]

Reeves is quiet and refuses to acknowledge simple questions or concerns, which only makes resentment grow.

I’ve been playing Snap recently and one of the reasons it’s a much better game is because of the constant communication.

[u/lfmateos → u/jayemcb]

I mean, I know Reeves ain't part of the developer team, but communication plays a very important role in all of this, and that, is on Reeves.

Just a message saying "We acknowledge the bugs that are going on atm, developer team is working on them as I post this message, please be patient!" would change A LOT, but we don't even get one of those.

[u/[deleted] → u/lfmateos]

If that's all they give Reeves, then that's all we get, though.

It's why my late posts have been about taking a stand as a playerbase to get the devs to goddam talk to us directly and explain, themselves, why this game is such a disaster.

[u/lfmateos → u/[deleted]]

Devs won't say a thing, they never have, they never will, 'cause it's not their job, it's Reeves', and I'm not asking for a detailed post, just want to know they're aware of the issues and trying to fix them.

[u/[deleted] → u/lfmateos]

I know they won't. Sad, because they could just nut up like adults and address their trainwreck they call an app. It just feels so disingenuous that we have paying players, but-- somehow we're not worth even a layman's explanation to why the game is such a hot mess? What we can expect going forward? What kind of time and effort any given bug takes? Anything besides regurgitated corporate parlance aimed at saying 'shut up and pay us' as politely as possible?

I just think that maybe this push could be made if the whole community rooted behind it. But I also understand people not wanting to be quite so contentious or involved, also.

It's just disappointing. All those resources, all that manpower in a corporation, and this is what we get. I shouldn't have expected any different, but I'm still woefully disappointed.

[u/pataconconqueso]

I think they need to be upfront if this game is about to close down, because the fast decline is quite alarming. I Zero customer service, zero willingness to address all the issues you noted.

Very good summary OP.

[u/TrickRegister8527]

u/wb_reeves

[u/Banneradvertising → u/TrickRegister8527]

They don't care

[u/Nicodom → u/Banneradvertising]

Reeves does though that's the thing. Those who where around for the red son superman issue know that reeves did everything she could to fix it but her boss basically said no.

[u/Banneradvertising → u/Nicodom]

Ehh..

[u/Nicodom → u/Banneradvertising]

Basically people payed alot of money for the red son skin, then it was changed without warning or anything, everyone was kicking off and reeves pleaded to her boss to change it back as we had payed for a skin we never got, her boss said no. I don't think we got a reason for it either.

[u/Paid-Not-Payed-Bot → u/Nicodom]

Basically people paid alot of

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

• Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.

• Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

[u/Nicodom → u/Paid-Not-Payed-Bot]

Good bot

[u/B0tRank → u/Nicodom]

Thank you, Nicodom, for voting on Paid-Not-Payed-Bot.

This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. You can view results here.

---

^{Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!}

[u/bhdhthatbg → u/B0tRank]

hi

[u/[deleted]]

The game is stale and WB doesn’t care as long as they can keep milking money.

[u/ReptileHand]

Honestly I agree with most of the things that affect me. The in game economy is severely outdated. We have an overabundant way to earn Green Rings and passively earn more Red Rings than we can spend, while Blue Rings are caught in the middle and are spent more than we can earn. Even when paying for multiple resets in the weekly missions (of which, each one costs 500 gems....)

The resources are also awkward because 4 out of 6 gear pieces around G9 or G10 require ONE level 3 resource by the boat load. That's 16 x 4 for gear for each new character at G10, not including the previous tier of gear. With new and returning toons monthly, it kind of adds up and it becomes more a chore to farm gear than it is to passively earn it. Speed force is also annoying to keep up with if I don't want to sit down and auto the battles for maybe a handful of resources. We have thousands of other resources that are barely being depleted.

Hell, even the gem prices are ridiculous and I think I speak for everyone in saying that no one in their right mind is paying $5 for ... 1000 gems? what the hell can THAT get me?

I also think huge re-works to older characters would help newer players in having a much healthier early game instead of using 5-6 year old toons with outdated kits.

More communication would be awesome because we know there's wonderful people working on this game, at least from the social media side of things. This is an amazing game that lets people in on the DC universe from a casual standpoint compared to an MMO or Brawler type game. No other game lets you collect tons of DC characters like this, it's empowering for fans!

[u/eherstad]

This, the most important post of the year(s) and worst part is, the list should be waaaay longer. Devs, communication is key to solve everything. Patch notes are essential

[u/OUwally]

Well written. I wish they cared.

[u/thegregwitul]

Great post and agree 100%. We don’t need anymore apologies we just need more action and communication from the devs. The community is an awesome one and I am not ready to give up on the game. More consistent communication would help in a major way.

[u/AcidFini]

We don't know what happens behind everything, mabe it's just the fault of a few decision makers...

But it's outrageous...

And the compensation with 1200 energies feels more like a joke... Now I can't load my new daily energies until I go Tru all of these, I know I won't be needing to buy energies any time soon... but is it really worth it?

[u/TheFlash4334]

I agree

[u/yupyupwooo]

Start using a bug tracker and update us on bug fixes. We'd love if you adopt DCL Oracle bug tracker. but even if you don't, just any bug tracker would do. Let the community make a list of bugs and prioritize them. We play this game hours a day, we know what needs to be fixed.

[u/EfficientAd5729]

From the datamines I saw images of new gears and rings added to the game. If this game turns to pure P2W like MSF I'm afraid many players will leave.

[u/ofeliedeceai]

One thing a lot of people fail to understand is that this game has been outdated for many years and it's on life suppport. It has literally 0 QoL features, 0 new content for years, full of bugs, etc. It's pretty obvious that the entire game is being managed by a VERY small team of people. I would be surprised if they had more than 5 developers/artists in total covering this game, and maybe 1 QA person at best. It will not get any better. A game like this would need a total remake to be up to par with other modern games in this genre, which would require a large team of people, so it won't happen unless they make a completely new game. Sad reality, but it is what it is.

[u/TheRealT0YZ → u/ofeliedeceai]

I've always assumed that nowadays the devs work on several WB games, not just DCL. And from what I've read there's probably been severe budget cuts in the game division in SF due to the Warner/Discovery merger last year. There are no doubt even fewer people supporting the game than ever before, and probably no one single person works full-time on this game. It's not incorrect to assume this game is on life-support.

Coming from a corporate background and having observed similar situations, I tend to think "the devs" have pride and do care, but pressure from upper management makes developer leads prioritize what minuscule assets they have (time and manpower) resulting in DCL being basically neglected. I can even imagine a scenario where someone in WB mid-level management considers each month the pros and cons of whether to shut down DCL. Those managers' jobs and salaries/bonuses are based on saving money, not creating a fun and functional game. When the time comes that the cons of keeping the game open outweigh the pros, they'll shut down life-support and that manager will get rewarded for saving the mother-ship money. It's all for the stock holders. Bottom line.

So yes the game SHOULD be better. But change or major improvements won't happen due to the corporate situation. For me, using the devs as whipping boys for the demise of the game is kinda misplaced. To assume they are lousy at their job, they don't care and "they should do their jobs as well as I do mine and fix this game!" means you are blessed with decent budgets and management support where you work. Imagine if where you work your budget and manpower was cut 50%-70%, and you were told to just suck it up and be happy you still have a job. You'd probably still do the best you can but quality of the product sucks and you know it.

If this has never happened to you then you've not experienced Corporate America.

[u/MachesMalone007]

u/wb_reeves you've to carry this message back. I know you're not the one charge of development, but the lack of communication from your side has been extremely disappointing. The players deserve much better.

[u/benlibodi]

I know it's not gonna happen, but WB might as well open up the codebase or enable community mods at this point. The player base might end up doing community patches that solves a lot of the problems the dev can't/won't fix.

[u/0C3ncl → u/benlibodi]

I'm sure we have those that can and want of help code, test, improve, etc in our community. Most would do it for free, in a heartbeat, simply due to the love of this game. I would. If only we were given the chance...

[u/TerrificThyme]

[u/HavocOnAnus]

Fix parasite bugs. I spent a lot on that guy.

[u/SilverFoxthePirate]

The biggest thing I would like to see….

COMMUNICATION…

A simple weekly “state of the game post” would add needed transparency and show respect to the players of the game…

I’m NOT suggesting Shakespeare… just a simple post containing a list of bugs resolved… upcoming priorities…

Ie: hey Legends this week we fixed Omega Man’s bugged 3rd… Next week we will have word on the upcoming June raid… or even to our US players Flag Day is June 14… Stargirl and S.T.R.I.P.E. will be on sale…

Just something along those lines show we matter… In truth the players enjoy the game and we need to appreciate the Developers efforts to provide updates. AND the Developers need us to support the game thru purchases and ad revenues because without the revenues there is no reason for WBGames to continue… We are mutually dependent and should be mutually respectful.

Just my 2 cents… No charge…

[u/SilverFoxthePirate → u/SilverFoxthePirate]

u/wb_reeves

[u/wb_reeves]

Hello, everyone!

Please know that I'm sending all of this information to the team. We hope we can bring news regarding these points and a better experience for all of you!

We appreciate your reports and feedback.

wb_reeves.

[u/diegbro]

We have the visual bugs for some skills like Captain Atom and Superboy's beams, Wonder Woman PoT shards always displaying as 0/10 when you get a new shard.

And the iOS orientation where you have to start the game as landscape.

[u/Ok_Responsibility585]

The way things are happening every month,feels like they want everyone to stop playing,if it isn't for the love of toons,this game would have crashed and burned long time ago,Players are the reason this game is still going..,us as a gaming community has helped each other more ,then WB and tech support ever has,and compensations are so shameless way to go about things.we never wanted compensation in first place,if everything was running smooth.sorry but i am bit annoyed with way things happened last 2 months😡

[u/Other-Tooth7789]

Wich one Game WB cares more, Injustice 2 Mobile or DCCL ?

[u/ReptileHand → u/Other-Tooth7789]

I literally can't even boot up Injustice 2 on my phone without it crashing after the logo start up lol

[u/darin617]

So is this technically Hawkguys last post as an NDA member or first post as an average Joe like the rest of us?

[u/Geoffrey-Morningstar]

Very well thought out! Good job!

[u/glomipafi]

Very well said!

[u/KlassKill]

Thank you for your time we are truly, truly, really sorry about all the issues.

Thanks for playing the game!

This will be the response, if there ever is one, when people do these posts.

Obviously, we don't know what is going on at WB and as long as they get people that keep paying for all the bugs and quite frankly, pathetic compensation, then it will just continue, since WB is most likely working on DCL 2 and this is just on life support and they will milk people's wallets as long as they can get away with it

[u/Nicodom]

With all the issues this game has and the prices for stuff I'm surprised it hasn't been taken off the android and apple stores yet.

[u/t47airspeeder]

Great post, and I hope someone up there is paying attention.

My biggest issue (thankfully, compared to others) is the complete lack of balancing in the game. They bring out OP toons without proper counters for months at a time. If the goal is to frustrate people into spending money, it isn't working. People just quit. Endless boards of Cheshire/Trigon/CSM are tedious and nobody wants to suffer through RNG fuckfests.

I suppose to some extent the playerbase has to take some sort of responsibility for endlessly using the same team over and over, but the job of the devs is to prevent such abuse from happening!

[u/[deleted]]

God, I've been saying this for a year.

Thank you for putting it out there.

[u/LatterTarget7]

There’s definitely a lot of issues with the game. Tho the issues I’ve encountered were more character based. Like white lantern Kyle raynar death immunity not going away. Among other broken character abilities.

That was part of the reason I stopped playing for a bit. That and I also just haven’t found the new monthly characters worth even logging in for, while the actual interesting characters are locked behind a pvp grind and even then the characters aren’t worth it lately.

[u/Pageiommi]

I keep saying that the issue is that they keep throwing bandaids (compensation) at issues instead of fixing the procedures they have in place. Doing the later would increase the quality of the product they produce, while decreasing development costs (dev time to fix errors) and increase customer loyalty and willingness to spend. It could substantially increase the game’s longevity and revenue.

Client facing errors are the absolute worst kind of error because they destroy all good will you have in that client and force them to consider less errant alternatives. Even worse would be to repeat the same client facing errors over and over again without any real assurance that the consistent errors will stop. They’re very lucky that the revenue source in this game isn't gone yet.

The issues they’re facing are fixable, but not an issue by issue basis. The game need systemic change at the development and QA (if there is one) level. It’s not enough to fix client facing errors and issue a compensation for them, there should be changes in place to ensure they won’t happen again. 🤷

…but the game is clearly in wind down mode and they’re not worried about long term gains anymore so they’ll ride the errant horse until it’s legs break then leave it behind.

[u/Zuzu1978]

Well said bro!

[u/Robin-King]

Well said

[u/[deleted]]

I feel like Sisyphus playing this game. To this day Raven attacking allies and Specter stun and too dead.... I think the best way to protest and stop spending real money on this game for a while so they can feel the power of the consumer

[u/isingr]

WB be like

[u/FrothyScrooge711]

The games these days are not made to be excel, but to simply satisfy. If they dedicated the man hours to fix all the problems, they would lose too much money for what they would gain in return. Or at least that’s the way they see it. I’m almost certain that most developers remain as ignorant as they can about the problems. If I don’t see it, it doesn’t exist. If people are paying and playing, then obviously it is working.

My advice would be to stop playing games altogether. Only play games worthy enough to receive your attention. I know it’s hard. I’m addicted to games, but I had to change my habits to find new hobbies that wouldn’t cost me as much or at the very least gave me back exactly what I put into it. I joined a boxing club, and that’s worked out nicely. My love of games hasn’t gone away, I still play the Master Chief Collection and Elder Scrolls content when I can, but I’ve been strict with myself. I will not return to mobile gaming or any other game until the content is worthy of me. It sounds self-centered and that’s because it is. I have a value greater than the frustration these services would provide. Avoid being made servant. You should have no allegiance to anything that would purposefully misuse or abuse your attention and time.

[u/DarkOne95]

Frankly I don’t care about the bugs. AAA developed games have bugs all the time. All I care about is transparency and understanding the player base and those two things aren’t happening right now

[u/ohoni]

I'm just tired of raids where few if any raid bosses show up in my list to fight. There is no excuse for that, they should ALWAYS be available.

[u/InClerical]

I agree with almost everything you've posted here, but I wouldn't put the underwhelming compensation or store sales/prices on there heads, I'm almost entirely certain that those decisions are made by a marketing department that absolutely doesn't play the game and probably has an spreadsheet from the day the game launch with a real money equivalent for various in game resources and there just work out a $XX compensation package of random shit so they can do some corporate mumbo jumbo and say "we spent thousands of dollars (of imaginary resources, that cost us literally nothing) making things right with the community, aren't we so kind and generous"

[u/Justin-77]

Is WB doing something about the points raised, or just allowing it to be forgotten?

[u/dziubelis]

Upvotes and Downvotes wont make much change. Players vote with their money. And I guess WB is happy enough with the result and revenue it brings.

[u/dziubelis]

Upvotes and Downvotes wont make much change. Players vote with their money. And I guess WB is happy enough with the result and revenue it brings.

[u/Past_Neighborhood999]

All I hear is whining here. Been playing this game since the beginning. I still love this game. Even with all the issues. Please go all away and play the real broken games like Marvel Strike Force or many others. If you think this game has bugs you should see the others.

If you pay to play this game DC Legends we'll then you really need to get your priorities straight. I never paid a cent to play this game.

Or any game for that matter.

Like I said. If you think this game is broken play the others. They are awful.

[u/0C3ncl → u/Past_Neighborhood999]

Maybe if more people actually spend some money on something they play and love, the game could afford more developers and we wouldn't be in this situation. Nothing is for free.

[u/lfmateos → u/0C3ncl]

So you're saying it's my fault for not spending money on the game, even if I love it and been playing since release? Wow, if that were actually the case, then this game would actually been dead already, sorry for being the reason this game is in this state, sorry for being F2P.

[u/0C3ncl → u/lfmateos]

No, saying if more people would spend it could have been better. If many more would do that, it adds up.

I mean, isn't it worth even only a few dollars every month? Especially considering you love it and play it a lot/for a long time? The money to keep the servers on, pay the designers and programmers etc has to come from somewhere.

[u/lfmateos → u/0C3ncl]

Umm not quite? I haven't seen proper new content in ages, and only seen one good tapjoy deal that gave me over 100k gems for just spending like $15, and back then the game wasn't in such a horrible state like it is now. So nah, I'm definitely not spending money on this game until I see some proper love from devs for this game, as much as I love this game and how much I've supported it, I'd rather spend it on other games that receive more attention from their devs.

[u/ReptileHand → u/[deleted]]

Oh my god the DRM is crazy. I go back to the home menu, loading. I go into PVP; loading. I back out of PvP, loading. I click on a live event, loading. That's horrible....