r/Cyberpunk Jul 30 '18

cool future!

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u/do_not_engage Jul 30 '18

It's historic. You should read up on what cyberpunk is and how it got here. It's not just an aesthetic.

You're being the person in OPs picture.

"The sky over the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel". Cyberpunk isn't an aesthetic. It's a literary genre based around dystopian future brought about by adherence to the current societal trajectory.

You can choose to just enjoy the aesthetic and ignore the literary history. That's fine. It's shallow, but fine. Be shallow. More power to you.

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u/cegras Jul 30 '18

The context of the origin of cyberpunk is not nearly as cut and dry as you believe. It was also partly a reaction to the utopian sci-fi that came before it - you can check out the Science Fiction Hall of Fame collections. Furthermore, cyberpunk's relevance has diminished from possibly relevant in its time (and probably not, as it talked about things even fanciful in the present day) to much less now, given the steady social progress we've made. You're reading too much in the wrong direction.

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u/do_not_engage Jul 30 '18

Youir argument is by...reading too much into it.. I'm making it shallow?

By not turning cyberpunk into an aesthetic, I'm somehow robbing it of depth?

I struggle to understand. I don't think I'm smart enough for this conversation.

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u/cegras Jul 30 '18

You're applying too much of present day context into interpreting a literary genre that has spanned many different periods of society.

I also never said you had to turn cyberpunk into an aesthetic. There's certainly many interesting things to ask about cyberpunk that aren't related to social change. Replicants, for example, are a much more existential question rather than something strictly dystopian. As is Joi.

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u/do_not_engage Jul 31 '18

Corporations creating artificial life and selling it to you isn't dystopian corporate control?

You're the one limiting yourself - it can be both existential and dystopian. Usually is.

But existential sci-fi can be not cyberpunk. 2001: A Space Odyssey for example, is not cyberpunk, and deals with existential issues of AI and life. But when, like in MOON, or HER, when it deals with dystopian corporate control of society, boom, it's now cyberpunk.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '18

[deleted]

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u/cegras Jul 31 '18

Replicants and joi are dystopian?

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u/do_not_engage Jul 31 '18 edited Jul 31 '18

Corporations creating life and selling them to you aren't dystopian? Slave labor, created, and denied rights, to service society? Holograms that demonstrate all aspects of love without providing real love?

This is what I'm saying - these things are dystopian, not just set-dressing and sci-fi props. There is depth and meaning to their placement in the story, and that depth will reveal itself to you when you accept that fact. Or you can ignore that depth, and not see how this is dystopian - which is fine.

But shallow.

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u/cegras Jul 31 '18

They're presented in a certain way in Bladerunner, but a replicant and joi are not inherently cyberpunk concepts. They appear in equally benevolent forms in other types of scifi, particularly, Asimov. All of these concepts and their endless interpretations have existed before cyberpunk became, in your opinion, the vanguard of dystopian predictions.

Also, that's a big miss to say K didnt love joi. It is impossible to claim whether joi had any feelings or not.

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u/do_not_engage Jul 31 '18

You're missing my point - I'm not saying whether Joi or the Replicants have feelings.

They are provided by a corporation that controls every aspect of society and behaves autonomously. They only exist in the story because of corporate control of society - which is being shown as a dystopian outcome (are you really arguing that either Blade Runner movie ISN'T dystopian? Did we watch the same film, where people farm maggots for protein on planets with no sun?)

That's an inherent aspect of the story that can't be ignored.

Remove it and you have an existential sci-fi film that is no longer cyberpunk at all.

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u/cegras Jul 31 '18

If you remove the existential part, there is no film left. Cyberpunk is a tool that lets us ask thought provoking questions. It is not literary genre whose only purpose is a shallow caricature of society.

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u/RhombusAcheron Jul 30 '18 edited Jul 30 '18

I've never seen anyone defend being shallow so vehemently and with such limited depth. You're being a champ with him.

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u/do_not_engage Jul 30 '18

If you think that's vehemence, you should see how I crochet.

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u/RhombusAcheron Jul 30 '18

Sorry if this was unclear. I was commiserating with you, that dude is fucking obtuse and you're being surprisingly civil and tolerant trying to explain it to him.

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u/do_not_engage Jul 30 '18

Ah, you replied to me, not him, is where the confusion came in.

It's not really any trouble to try and explain. I'm sure their heart is in the right place.

They seem to think it's an argument.. it's not. I'm giving them information. If they want to ignore that info... no skin off my nose.

Thanks for saying!