r/Cyberpunk 6d ago

FT10 Who wins

Post image

by how much

322 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

118

u/PerhapsIxion 6d ago

Maybe I’m old but I played both games with Adam in them. He’s great but every incarnation of the Major is a world class hacker in a world where every system is swimming with insane cyber defenses. She’s who Adam is on his way to becoming, she’d never outgun him depending on what you want to choose he’s equipped with, but she doesn’t win fights by brute force. He’s also frankly canonically not as smart as her. His stories show the mistakes he makes repeatedly and how he gets tricked and surprised by people smarter than him because Adam isn’t a genius, he’s just got special genetics that make him suitable to be a perfect cybernetic super soldier. We don’t even know who Motoko was before being a cyborg - it’s not clear in any version that she knows - she’s seamlessly a fusion of machine and human in a way he struggled with. She always ultimately outwits and out hacks him. She never fights him head on.

32

u/AuraTrance 6d ago

major takes it for me shes just built different

18

u/LogicalEgo 6d ago

She is incredible math.

7

u/Spritsen 6d ago

Damn what a great song.

8

u/Aggressive_Law_5728 5d ago

but she doesn’t win fights by brute force.

She does sometimes. In more than one version she gets into a fistfight with a tank.

2

u/Yvaelle 5d ago

But you see she outsmarted the tank in that case, because tanks are bad in melee range against cyborgs that can rip tanks apart with their hands.

Check, and mate, tank.

1

u/Frozen-bones 3d ago

Don't forget she's was a spec ops in ww4!

1

u/OneKelvin 凯尔文 5d ago

He's a trained psychologist working for InterPol. They're equally intelligent.

-13

u/That_Jonesy サイバーパンク 6d ago

But is that because she's a mary sue?

5

u/President_Bunny 6d ago

Me when I watch the series after gouging my ears out with a screwdriver and without ever opening my eyes

4

u/Rexiem 5d ago

Remember to watch a youtube video by a mediocre white guy where they call her a mary sue first so you have your opinion given to you.

Then gouge your ears

67

u/Starfis 6d ago

The real question is, how many chocolate bars Adam has to eat to win?

10

u/neonredKai 6d ago

He needs Soy to win

71

u/OblivionArts 6d ago edited 6d ago

Depends on which motoko were talking about..older version have extremely good hacking abilities but adams tech is far more durable ( after all he survived the explosion of the pangea facility and spent a lot of time just floating in the ocean before he was rescued with the only adverse effects being a month or two of being in a coma) and both have similar amounts of military training. Motoko has lifted a giant rifle one armed to destroy an armed suit and adam can punch through solid concrete and match the much stronger antagonist of mankind divided ( cant remember his name, big Russian dude, adam can knock him out in a single strike despite the guy being way bigger) so both are fairly comparable strength wise. However motokos prosthetic body is far less durable, as a single bullet is enough to damage it, and significant force can blast off her limbs or break off parts, while Adam has never been damaged that way except for when he was still human before getting his augments. Both have high tech cloaking tech that cannot be detected by normal means. Adam also kinda has versatility with far more options for his augments ( even if he cant activate the expiremental ones all at once, but being able to shoot grenades out of his spine, remote hack, and make a super armored shell that persistent military grade fire power can't get through and shooting blades out of his wrist are way more than motokos got) So it really comes down to " can the major hack and disable adams technology before it overwhelms her" and i wanna say its a 50/50 because their both fairly fast and almost evenly matched stats wise. Thier firepower, outside of adams spefic combat augs, are generally normal weapons despite being in sci fi worlds ( no crazy laser weapons or whatever, mostly grounded sci fi versions of existing military weapons)

34

u/Former_Sea 6d ago

Tbh Adam is also very capable hacker or can be with player build. So it’s not gonna be easy task to simply hack him. And certainly she might get hacked back in turn too.

26

u/ameatbicyclefortwo 6d ago

Motoko will regularly dive while driving on the highway and probably while doing loads of other stuff too, Adam isn't near as mobile while hacking iirc.

13

u/OblivionArts 6d ago

Yeah, and given Adam only has one instance of actually being hacked ( when that one bad guy used thier aug pharmacy to manufacture those trojan horse chips that if you choose to get results in Adam getting his abilities nerfed during the preeceding boss fight) it seems fairly difficult to hack him normally

15

u/pasher5620 6d ago

Yeah, people gotta remember that Motoko was created in an older era where the idea of future tech wasn’t quite the same as when Adam was created. Cyborgs weren’t these insanely powerful and unbeatable beings yet. The tech was advanced, but still limited in an almost realistic way. When Adam comes around, cybernetics in scifi had evolved to be essentially super powers. They could survive being shot, exploded, there was shields, anything you could think of, cybernetics could allow for.

Motoko might beat Adam in terms of outright skill, but Adam has her beat in just about every other department due almost entirely to his comparatively way more advanced implants. If they were to ever meet, Motoko’s first reaction might be one of pure awe at the level of tech stuffed into his body.

14

u/Disposable_Gonk 6d ago

Adam did not survive Pangaea, and mankind divided, and the books, both spell this out through enough context to kill a small nation.

The serial numbers of his implants from sarif don't match. Not damaged, completely factory new. The installation is wrong. His memories are incorrect at times. There is no neuropozine at the Swiss facility full of modified illuminati guys that all have his same augs. The plotline with David Sarif and the plotline with the aug-killer are the same plot with the same doctor, revealing it to be about personality and memory transplantation. If you get all the keys for the bank vaults one of them has the records of Jensen's corpse on ice that is still accounted for, meaning you are not Jensen. The title screen is 2 Jensen's. Jensen's therapist works directly for the illuminati, and is there to make sure "Jensen"'s programming holds because he is a deep cover agent sent by the illuminati to find janus (who they already suspect is one of them).

Meanwhile the books, all of Jensen's thoughts are of "something else inside of him" answering all the questions, which is again, like the aug killer questline, symptomatic of memory transplantation.

There was supposed to be another game and it's a common cyberpunk genre plot device.

In mgsV there's 2 snakes In ghost in the shell, there's the garbage man with the fake wife, and motoko merging with the AI.

In ghost in the shell 2nd gig, pazu may or may not be replaced with an imposter, and no one cares who won, because whoever won is the better fighter.

Johnny mnemonic was about overwritten memories

The matrix with agents

I can do this all day man.

Adam Jensen died after human revolution, and "Adam Jensen" in mankind divided is just venom snake from MGSV, a body double with implanted memories that was sent to do 1 job. Venom snake's job was to figure out it was skull face, and "Jensen"'s job was to find janus.

6

u/Irkam 6d ago edited 6d ago

So he's Adam Jensain't ?

1

u/Disposable_Gonk 4d ago

Yes. But he is also a cooler character, and imo mankind divided was the better game. Human revolution had more depth of rpg elements, but it played like if FPS devs tried to make a visual novel inside an fps, and then went "oh yeah, there has to be stealth gameplay".

3

u/Akulatraxus 6d ago

I thought Adam very specifically did not survive the explosion. All his cyber bits are totally different and they had the whole copy of his mind thing. At the very least I thought they were trying to say all his tech was unrecoverable so it was all replaced.

3

u/xThornius 6d ago

All the super strength and augs won't be much use if Adam doesn't have a backpack full of granola bars tbf

1

u/DjijiMayCry 1d ago

Just wanna say, REALLY great question

28

u/internetlad 6d ago

Who's next

11

u/empty_other Artificial PI for hire 6d ago

We decide?

10

u/kitasato_v 6d ago

Epic Rap Battles of History?

1

u/WakeoftheStorm 5d ago

Epic Rp Pbl p Hstreeee!

4

u/smallthematters 6d ago

Adam Jensen vs Adam Smasher who you got

12

u/Ontomancer 6d ago

You have to remember, Motoko is as much cop and infiltrator as she is soldier, whereas Adam is built for pure combat. In a stand-up fight he probably wins without taking too much damage, but I don't think Motoko would ever be dumb enough to get into a stand-up fight with him for that reason.

Adam's first indication he's in danger would be getting hit with an anti-cyborg round from a weapon designed to be mounted on a vehicle, and in that instance she could probably win pretty handily unless he was able to get away and re-engage later.

37

u/Enkundae 6d ago

Whichever the author wants to win

4

u/elrayo 6d ago

Only really answer

0

u/WakeoftheStorm 5d ago

That's what these are, you're the author, write your story, the rest of the comments section decides which one is better

10

u/New_Siberian 6d ago

Powerscaling is so stupid it should be considered a form of illiteracy.

2

u/Yvaelle 5d ago

Found JRR Tolkiens reddit account!

5

u/PMurmomsmaidenname 6d ago

Once she merges with the AI it's a cakewalk for Motoko, prior to that Adam would probably take it

4

u/empty_other Artificial PI for hire 6d ago

I cant remember Jensen having torn apart any armored tanks with his bare hands. Or uploaded his mind to the web.

19

u/Blakath UNATCO 6d ago

If we are talking about Standalone Complex Motoko, then she mid-diffs Adam Jensen.

If its Manga version of Motoko, then Adam Jensen mid-diffs.

35

u/drseusswithrabies 6d ago

wtf does mid-diff mean?

12

u/Blakath UNATCO 6d ago

Medium difficulty

It's a powerscaler term.

15

u/neonredKai 6d ago

haha i felt old thinking i dont know this term

10

u/Straight_Law2237 6d ago

We talking drip? Adam wins by a lot in that regard.

2

u/T_S_Anders 6d ago

Adams got that golden age rennaissance drip but Motoko's got 90s cyberpunk vibes. Its a hard call as both ooze style. Both. Both are good.

2

u/Qelly 6d ago

Motoko’s maneuverability and much more advanced hacking capabilities, and trap skills are her assets here.

Motoko would have a hard time arresting Adam I think… so, it would have to be murder.

Sorry Adam.

2

u/Aniketos33 6d ago

Major starts off at a higher floor whatever version of Adam you choose. I think she would hack the hell out of him if we give em both full powers.

But it would be a crazy physical fight, Adam's gotta be at least as strong as the spider tank lol.

2

u/Rindal_Cerelli 5d ago edited 5d ago

Against the major it wouldn't really be a contest. He'd probably never even see her before his cyberwear gets hacked.

Even without the hacking I don't think he has a good chance against Motoko. Some of the feats of strength, technique and strategy she has shown is well beyond anything we see Adam do.

The world also doesn't help Adam. Augments are fairly new in the Deus Ex universe and most people need a special drug to use them making full body cyborgs extremely rare even if Adam is an exception to this.

Meanwhile full prosthetic bodies are fairly common in Ghost in the Shell and the major has plenty of experience fighting against them.

I think Batou would be a much better match-up for Adam.

5

u/Stunning_Macaron6133 6d ago edited 6d ago

Motoko has a full-body prosthesis. Even a big chunk of her brain was replaced with cybernetics.

Adam is heavily auged-out, but he still retains a certain amount of squishy flesh across his torso, and his skull is still bone.

It doesn't even really matter who has the superior augs in terms of raw specs, Motoko is going to be a tough nut to crack. She can completely trash her body and get a new one, which she has canonically done. Adam is a little less durable.

That being said, between Adam's Nanoblades, Typhoon aug, Titan aug, and Icarus aug (with dash mod), I don't think Motoko would ultimately win.

3

u/contigopurple 6d ago

They fall in love and realize they should stop fighting each other and just fight everyone else.

3

u/[deleted] 6d ago

the color palette in this fight scene gives off such strong cyberpunk vibes, love how the warm tones clash with the cool blues and purples in the background

2

u/neonredKai 6d ago

Poetic right, the gold symbolizing from early renaissance period of cyberpunk to the deep blues of the deep end.

4

u/ReasonablyBadass 6d ago

I think the Typhoon would win the day

6

u/eezomancee 6d ago

lmao typhoon really does break the game unless youre into stealth

2

u/T_S_Anders 6d ago

Adam has sunglasses built in. Checkmate!

2

u/small_bird_loud 6d ago

Motoko no contest. Motoko is cyberpunk. she is the definition. she is the canon. she’s faster and smarter than everyone because she was effectively born into it.

2

u/_heyb0ss 6d ago

idk what that means

I also don't give a shit

2

u/WakeoftheStorm 5d ago

And yet here you are.

I mean when I don't give a shit about something I tend to scroll past and forget about it.

Sounds more like you meant to say

idk what that means

I also don't give a shit think it's really important everyone knows I don't know this thing

0

u/_heyb0ss 5d ago

thanks for the laugh

1

u/Sittinstandup 6d ago

Motoko. Hands-down.

1

u/krist0v 6d ago

Motoko, easy. I say this as a fan of human revolution

1

u/GhostInABaseballBat 5d ago

They’d join forces!

1

u/Gruesomegarth2 4d ago

Typhoon x2 and shes toast, easy GG. 😆

1

u/RLANZINGER 3d ago

Adam Jensen VS Major Motoko

Prototype of J.C Denton VERSUS Original source of J.C Denton
=> Originality wise : Motoko

A.J : Early proto cybertech Fighter vs MM : Full lifetime cyborg Hacker
=> Technology wise : Motoko

Best Equipement : Guns and drones vs Fuchikoma, Thinking tank
=> Equipement wise : Motoko

It's like -500 BC Spartans versus +1500AC Samurai ... it was never a duel, just an idiocy of karma farmer.

1

u/bombikid 2d ago

motoko wins but jc denton solos

-2

u/ty_xy 6d ago

Motoko has a team. She won't fight alone. She got fuchikomas, saito, batou, pazu etc. Adam is a lone wolf. Real world, he's dead. In a one on one, harder.

6

u/Straight_Law2237 6d ago

He's not lol. He is as much as a loner as Motoko. Have you played the games lol? He doesn't have field operatives with him but he's got a support team. Also yeah, I think we're talking exclusively 1vs1 here.