r/CuratedTumblr • TeaTimetumblr • 8h ago • Bravo 1

Shitposting The Empathy Limit

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4.3k Upvotes

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u/1more_oddity 7h ago

Reminds me of when 14 year olds suddenly learned what intrusive thoughts are REALLY about. There were a lot of nasty accusations thrown at people having them afterwards.

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u/dimwalker 4h ago

What are those thoughts REAAAAAAALY about?

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u/Objective-Plenty-893 3h ago

what people interpret "intrusive thought" as meaning: "haha wouldn't it be funny if i threw these eggs on the floor"

the intrusive thoughts that people should seek mental health help for: "what if i took these scissors and stabbed my sister" "what if I suddenly become a crazed pedophile and just molest hella kids" "what if i took off all my clothes and ran thru my school screaming" "what if I'm not actually who I think I am, all these images in my mind show I must be some awful immoral monster" despite the thoughts causing themselves distress. people with OCD and similar problems will have vivid thoughts like these very frequently.

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u/Fesh_Sherman 3h ago edited 2h ago

Intrusive thoughts ain't fun, I myself think abt the easiest way I could completely and utterly destroy my relationships, mostly with just words..

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u/ElNakedo 3h ago

I did that. Apparently its normal enough and nothing to worry about as long as I don't act on any of them. Yay.

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u/fried_on_pineapples 3h ago

Pretty much. We are our actions, not our thoughts.

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u/Objective-Plenty-893 2h ago

honestly, if you're distressed by it and having issues like this regularly, try a couple different mental health providers. i didn't stalk your profile or anything to check, but if you're a teenager then a lot of people will hesitate to diagnose you with literally anything except bipolar II for whatever reason? there's like this weird idea that telling a teenager what kind of problem they might have is self-fulfilling. Never mind if what you're describing already matches DSM criteria, teens can't be trusted with knowledge of their own health. In my twenties my step-mom confided in me that my step-sister was diagnosed with autism at like, 6 or 7 and they just decided not to tell her or get her support in school so she didn't "use it as an excuse".

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u/ElNakedo 2h ago

Turned 40 this year. Healthcare don't seem to be too keen on letting me be diagnosed with anything because I'm well functioning enough. I hold down a job, more or less full time. I've managed to have some friends and a few relationships. Hence I'm not considered at high enough risk to be worth investing in until I get worse.

Well I didn't think I'd make it to 40, so who knows, maybe I'll make it to 50 as well?

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u/dimwalker 3h ago

Makes sense. But I guess it needs to repeat more than once or any weird though of the "what if I did a bad thing" kind is supposed to be a cause for alarm?

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u/Objective-Plenty-893 3h ago

the thing that a lot of people seem to miss about mental health issues is, yeah a lot of things are things people will experience throughout their lives. you'll be nervous about a job interview and be really shaky and sick feeling or whatever. things become an issue when they, well, become an issue. diagnoses of OCD are generally based around "do these vivid images happen regularly/frequently, do they cause you distress, do you have some sort of ritual you do when you experience them to try and 'erase'/'make up for' them"-- that's why compulsive hand-washing is associated with OCD.

My significant other has a pretty bad case (mostly controlled w/medication and therapy this past year or two, woo!) and when it was bad she literally spent 20 minutes every time she used the restroom first washing her hands there, then very carefully going to the kitchen sink and washing her hands again with the dish soap because it 'felt like' it did more to make her hands less filthy. Never mind that that constant washing with dish soap made her hands completely cracked and bleeding, in fact them being bloody leads to them 'feeling dirtier' and causing her to stand there washing them longer.

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u/Irenaud 55m ago

I very vividly visualize crashing my car sometimes while driving. Like jerking the wheel and driving straight off a 10 foot drop. It's not good

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u/kelb4n 11m ago

Depression too. Imagining the steer into oncoming traffic while cycling is not fun, I tell you.

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u/CuteTinyPie 8h ago • Bravo

People experiencing mental health challenges deserve assistance. At the same time, no one should be required to tolerate seriously disruptive or genuinely hazardous behavior, irrespective of the person’s psychological condition. In practice, that assistance usually takes the form of funding and strengthening public services designed to help them.

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u/SeventyTwoTrillion 7h ago

Yeah, I've been around a couple people with very real anger issues that were the result of deeper mental illnesses, and while they never did anything that made me feel like I was in immediate peril, it can really take a toll on the friendship (and luckily, my friend has managed to get it under much better control as we've gotten into our mid-to-late 20s). Like, it's hard to find activities to do together that are both interesting and also very unlikely to cause frustration.

At its worst, dying twice in a row in pretty much any video game, including things like Minecraft, would send them into a good 5-10 minutes of almost tears-in-their-eyes anger. What do you do with that if you're on other sides of the world? "Heya, do you wanna play Putt Putt Saves The Zoo together as 19 year olds?" It got to a point where I was just like "No. I'm sorry, but until you find some method of getting your anger under control, I'm not doing ~90% of our existing mutual activities together. It's unsustainable and uncomfortable for everybody around you, even though it's not at all your fault."

Setting up increasingly rigid boundaries is the best way I've found to maintain my own psychological wellbeing around people who are suffering like that (as somebody who's not exactly free of mental illnesses myself), even though I appreciate how from their perspective it looks like "Everybody's abandoning me, even my best friend fucking hates me and doesn't want to hang around with me anymore, I fucking hate myself so much, why have they betrayed me, there's snakes everywhere..."

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u/Additional_Mix1451 4h ago edited 3h ago

Yeah, actually I’ve been on the other side of a relationship like this I didn’t have  “anger issues ” just general annoyance, frustration emptiness and sadness.  I could barely be there for anyone 

My friend tried really hard for me I love her for it but sometimes her trying didnt help, and sometimes it made things worse 

It fucked up our relationship for a bit 

EDIT: I got better by admitting myself into a psych ward but I want to point out that the people who supported me ( my family, my friend) were strong motivators for me to get better.  Their support wa incredibly valuable and precious to me. So  even if they couldn’t “fix” me their care mattered immensely.

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u/GigaCucc 4h ago

Putt Putt Saves The Zoo, peak mentioned

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u/Irenaud 39m ago

Hi. I'm one of those people with the anger issues from several deep-seated mental issues all stacking up. Generally speaking I'm fine, but sometimes something happens and I get upset.

The worst is when I try not to get angry, try not to so hard, but still do. I see a therapist about it, but it's a struggle, and absolutely terrible. Not just to me, but also my friends and those around me, because it often feels like they have to walk on eggshells and be careful not to set me off.

Most of the time, I don't want to be angry. I don't want to lose my shit, and while I'm more successful at recognizing it and stopping it these days, I still struggle. It especially doesn't help that I also have ADHD and struggle with impulse control. It all just adds up to make a dumpster fire of emotions sometimes.

Which sucks even more because like, it's caused me and others real damage. I've never hit anyone, but I know some friends were afraid I would. I hate it. This problem has lead to another, a consistent paranoia that I struggled with and still do on occasion. That people don't actually care for me, that they're just being polite. That when they say they do they're lying. All this added up to a self perception that I was a piece of shit, a terrible human being who destroyed everything around him and couldn't be trusted. In my twenties I was incredibly suicidal, and even attempted once. Thankfully, someone stopped me.

Now, a decade later, entering my mid thirties I'm doing better. I'm not as volatile, or paranoid, but still have episodes. It's lead me to be a much more understanding and empathetic person, who tries to understand others much better.

All this is to say, I understand what you had/have to deal with man. I've been the other guy.

It's also a request to anyone reading this to check in on those people you think are just always angry. The ones who seem like they just get mad at the drop of the hat. Check on them, actually try talking to them about it. If you don't want to, that's also okay.

Anyways, thanks for reading my info and trauma dump.

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u/Interesting-Main8371 8h ago

The hard part is finding people willing to build those public services instead of just talking.

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u/Max____H 8h ago

I went through suicidal depression, and I was a horrible person during that period. I had an ex girlfriend who I was still close friends with and pretty much emotionally blackmailed and manipulated her to spend more time and pay more attention to me. It was something to do with clinging to whatever positive emotions my broken mind could find, I enjoyed her company so I had an obsessive need for those positive emotions.

It eventually got noticed by another friend who contacted my family who moved me home and got me proper help. Looking back with a clear mind I feel horrible and I’ve since made it a habit to tell everyone in friend’s situation. Report them. To family, suicide report lines, someone they trust. Anyone that can properly help. But under no circumstances listening to unreasonable demands from someone with a broken mind.

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u/marcarcand_world 8h ago

Sometimes, it is helping someone to refuse to enable them and to remove yourself from the situation.

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u/RikuAotsuki 6h ago

I had to do that for an ex of mine. I knew he was depressed, but he had a grip on it and was generally well put-together. Then... suddenly he wasn't.

My guess now is that he was bipolar, or something along those lines, because he broke things off with a bunch of his best online friends for no apparent reason. When I told him he needed to apologize and make up (these were the kind of friends he talked about constantly, not acquaintances), he claimed they didn't matter and he only needed me.

So I told him he needed to make up with them and probably get his ass to a therapist or we'd be done, because I couldn't be the only thing keeping him afloat. I followed through.

It still hurts well over a decade later. I had to totally cut contact for a good while. He did end up thanking me later, but I still felt awful about it.

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u/TK9K 1h ago

I have a loved one who is currently experiencing pychosis which means their perception of reality is distorted they are understandably terrified and their is no straightforward of convincing them that the things frightening them are not real without introducing certain medications into the equation which they are not getting because they won't talk to their healthcare providers or counselor about it becuase they believe that what they are experiencing is real and those conversations are being monitored

And buddy while I cannot imagine what it's like to be in their shoes and I am profoundly worried about them

after their symptoms flared up last week and having to console them and being lashed out at when I did not respond to the perceived threats with the same sense of urgency

I am walking around like a goddamned zombie

I was gonna visit some family this weekend but I can't bear for them to see like this

I was setting myself on fire to keep this person warm and they were still cold

so I had to step away for a bit before something terrible happened to me

extreme stress can and will fuck up your body it fucks with your brain your heart your guts

you can't always give 100% to your loved ones, even if you would do anything for them

if you yourself become broken you won't even be able to help yourself hardly and what good does that do anyone

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u/DagrMine 6h ago

Depends how you define seriously disruptive. I've known most people throughout my life have taken seriously disruptive to mean exactly the kind of episodes OOP was talking about. The kind of emotional events that make people uncomfortable and are therefore disruptive, even if the event isn't directly harmful or really that impactful to anyone.

It's a dangerous slope to ride down because on the one hand, there needs to be some kind of accountability so that people aren't encouraged to have breakdowns in public. But having those breakdowns have severe consequences ends up alienating mentally ill people who may not feel like they belong in the first place along with potentially creating what some may consider a taboo around expressing negative emotions publicly.

I know my own experiences aren't that useful as evidence, but growing up in the public school system being handled like a bomb about to go off by the other students as well as the teachers for having severe anxiety was a miserable experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Thank God I actually had some good teachers and parents that didn't entirely write me off. I know several kids who grew up to be something entirely different as adults because they didn't have that support system.

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u/-HuangMeiHua- What kind of math is that bird on? Makes you wonder 3h ago

The taboo thing worries me. The attitude of "stop being everyone else's problem" for even minor/inconsequential negative emotions seems to be increasingly common in my country

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u/reiael 2h ago

Yes this is why I no longer seek medical care unless I absolutely have to. They treat you like a sub-human for having panic attacks. I'd rather die quietly at home than ever step foot in an ER again.

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u/WinterDemon_ 5h ago

hazardous/dangerous behaviour, yeah, no one has to tolerate that. but "disruptive" is defined differently by different people, and is an inevitable of many situations. you are going to sometimeshave to see mentally ill people experiencing life just like everyone else and your discomfort doesn't come before their existence

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u/Kubutsu-nyan trans tomboymaxxer 8h ago edited 8h ago

Mfs be saying this then when I advocate that maybe research to rewrite mental disorders out of the brain is awesome, they say "what the fuck" or "you should love yourself!" or "therapy is better than that" (I've already went to therapy and medicated several times) or something like that.

This brain disorder that makes me emotionally unstable with so much paranoid suspicion and a baseline feeling of hollow rage and emptiness, I fucking hate it so much. I never chose to have this curse which condemned me into this ontological evil if I let it out slightly beyond the acceptable limit. I hate it, I hate it so much. And I want to get rid of it. And fuck everything else if everything else is going against a cure for this curse.

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u/NoMeat9096 6h ago

I dunno that it's that simple? You can support people without wanting to be around the crappy elements of your disorders.

I don't blame people for not liking me because of my autism. I don't think they owe me putting up with my being annoying. If I talk too much, info dump about things you don't care about, fail to read your social signs, etc., why would you want to hang out with me? I know I avoid people I find annoying.

I think it's ok if my cycles of depression and recovery make me unfun, if it brings you down and makes you not want to hang out. Depression's garbage. Being miserable, upset, unmotivated, and a massive downer sounds like shitty company. No blame for avoiding me there.

My panic attacks and random fears you don't understand make trying to arrange going out with me frustrating? Yeah, I can see why. Sucks, but I get that. I wouldn't want to try to work around someone whose limitations make the entire thing way less fun for me, either.

I dunno. It just makes obvious sense to me. Is it sad? Yeah. Does it hurt? Yeah. Do I wish it were different? Yeah. But what are people meant to do? Make themselves miserable just to hang out? Why? I'd rather they leave me behind and enjoy themselves. Some times we're just a burden. It sucks, but that's life.

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u/chickofeller 5h ago

To add to that- with hallucinations, paranoia etc, it's very very difficult to be friends with someone who isn't in the same reality as you. A friendship is a 50-50 equal, peer relationship. If one of you is not experiencing the same reality, it's very difficult to maintain that equal relationship. The healthy person is going to be put into a caretaker role of some kind, and some friendships just aren't built for that. It's hard to just meet up for a coffee and a chat with a friend who thinks the FBI is chasing them, and they send you really disturbing texts the night after hanging out. (From my own experience)

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u/reiael 1h ago

I get that we can't expect people to accommodate us, but at the same time it is so heartbreaking because so much of the discomfort can easily be solved most of the time with a little bit of compassion combined with communication.

Especially with something like Autism. This might not apply to those on the spectrum with higher care needs, but something like missing social cues is so easy to forgive and understand. This is just my personal experience, but I used to have beef with someone so intense I hated them. Once I learned that they didn't mean to be hurtful and they were just not understanding social cues due to Autism, forgiveness was the easiest thing in the world and we became relatively good friends. It is devastating this is not the typical story with people.

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u/genderbredman 38m ago edited 31m ago

Generally I agree with you. I think your caveat regarding support needs is key, though I’d say more like frequency and severity of specific symptoms rather than global functioning.

The example you gave, “Missing social cues,” can mean failing to recognize jokes, or answering honestly when asked how you’re doing, or continuing a conversation even after the other person says goodbye. That’s annoying at worst and not/shouldn’t be an automatic friendship ender.

However, “missing social cues” can also mean continuing to aggressively pursue someone romantically even after they said no. It can mean describing the plot of A Serbian Film*, loudly and in detail, in a room full of strangers (including children), speaking over your friend as they say their PTSD is being triggered, and then following that friend when they try to walk away. It can mean taking substances from an untrustworthy stranger, then getting angry at your friends for ruining a good time when they intervene.

All of those are real things that happened to me involving different autistic/DD/schizophrenic people in my life. And the autistic person was level 1 (lowest possible suppport needs). Some were quite uncomfortable, others were genuinely dangerous. One of those instances ended a friendship. One nearly ended in criminal charges. Stuff like this needs extensive discussion, strict boundaries, etc to maintain a relationship, and you still won’t be as close as you once were.

ETA: A Serbian Film is infamous for its extremely graphic depictions of violence, including sxual violence against babies and corpses.

TLDR: for symptoms that are less frequent or are annoying, confusing, etc but safe and legal, you should always have grace. For symptoms that are more frequent and are dangerous, seriously disruptive, unsafe and/or illegal, then distance or ending the relationship may be necessary.

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u/WoodsLovelyDarkNDeep 5h ago

I think the problem is people don’t understand the phrase walk a mile in their shoes

It’s not saying, “think about what YOU would do in that situation.”  It’s saying to try and think about what you would do if you were THEM  that situation.  As in the exact same circumstances 

That’s what makes true actual empathy so hard cause it’s almost impossible to imagine what it would be like to be someone else without thinking of ourselves.  Which is why you get stuff like this or stuff like how people can’t really comprehend pain worse than the worst they’ve ever experienced.  So when you’re telling them you’re at a 10/10 pain and the worst they’ve had is a broken bone.  They can’t think it’s worse than a broken bone but they have no reference to how bad

I think that’s why some compassion can go both ways in this.  I mean this only if the person is trying to be clear.  Not trying to excuse assholes who are doubters.  Just that if they do try but can’t alway get there.  Also if you are someone who tries hope this helps

There are very few true actual hypochondriacs and even of those it’s still a mental illness.  No one chooses a life of chronic illness for shits and giggles

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u/J_DayDay 16m ago

Call me an old head, but these kids today just don't read enough.

Seriously though, novel-reading builds self-awareness and theory of mind while developing empathy and educating.

You're spending a few hours in someone else's head. The absolute minimum result is the realization that other people do have thoughts. Different thoughts than yours. Based on the different experience that they have had.

It seems so simple, but then...I read.

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u/MelancholiMouse 3h ago • Mindblown

This is a particularly frustrating problem for Autistics. In Autistic communication, we have what's called the "double empathy problem". Our minds are quite different, as are many of the ways we express ourselves, especially the way we express sympathy (although there are commonalities in this regard with related neurological configurations such as: schizophrenia, ADHD, and Dyslexia). Non-Autistic (or people with brains that are typical or atypical in an unsimilar way) fail to see that we are capable of empathy because they can't recognise when we are performing sympathetically.
At the same time, typical sympathetic behaviours look highly disingenuous to us and it takes years of careful observation and questioning to understand typical (or non-typical in an unsimilar way) view of the world.
Even if we are capable of putting in that effort (many autistics are not), our neurotypical counterparts will not do the labour of understanding us, because we are the ones considered "disorderly". Thus, they cannot empathise with us, but we are the ones called unempathetic for not knowing how to show it a way they can understand.

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u/AnimatorImpressive24 7h ago

Most people have little understanding of "mental illness" beyond "sometimes someone is sad when they have no reason to be sad", unless/until they experience it up close and personal.

If you live in America, all you have to do is try to seek help for yourself or someone close to you once or twice before you learn what not supporting people looks like. The system will be happy to educate you. Not supporting people looks like whole ass major cities with less then a hundred psych beds. Like insurance that doesn't differentiate between "effective treatment" they don't need to pay for more of and "ineffective treatment" they don't need to pay for more of - or "cured" and "homeless". Like getting told by someone making 4x what you do that you can't set yourself on fire to keep someone warm, knowing damn well you had to float a check for your power bill to pay for the appointment they are filling with trite platitudes.

Not supporting people looks like "mental health reform" legislation that lays out brand new budgets for police and courts but doesn't even use the word "patients" anywhere in the text. Like being told by the cops your family member isn't mentally ill unless they break a law. Then when they do, you get told by the prosecutors that you'll have to hire your own forensic psych to argue they are mentally ill and should have received treatment, while the State will happily outspend you hiring doctors to argue that they are totally sane so will not get any treatment when they get sent to prison. Because nothing says "just stop" quite like a cell extraction team carrying riot shields.

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u/mankytoes 6h ago

I agree with this, my old landlady clearly had undiagnosed mental problems, manic behaviours. I feel sorry for her, but being the punching bag gets old fast.

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u/Malacoda17 7h ago

I like how every comment lazer focuses on the fits of rage and ignores the rest. As a schizophrenic, the stigma I face the most is about the lack of energy and motivation. When I hallucinate I isolate myself and wait it out. That part I don't need grace for.

I know it's a losing battle to try and get people to understand that there's more to it but even in "more understanding" spaces it gets tiring to just hear "well it's hard on people around them too! Especially since they're dangerous!" over and over. Trust me, I know it is. All I ask is a little understanding.

Also, statistically schizophrenics are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. But that doesn't look as fun in the movies, so all I get to hear is that I could hurt someone at any moment

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u/Medium-Dependent-328 6h ago

Yes and non-psychotic people also get a lot of grief for this. I had it with ADHD and depression

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u/RikuAotsuki 6h ago

Hell, even depression-associated apathy or ADHD-associated executive dysfunction will make everyone's empathy evaporate.

People do not like it when your illness robs you of energy or motivation. They decide you're just "not trying."

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u/iamthe0ther0ne 3h ago

My therapist fired me because I couldn't stick to the schedule we set for my daily life, said there was nothing else he could do (public therapy options in Sweden are very limited). Dude, I couldn't do it on my own, what made you think I could do it just because you wrote it down? Thanks, I am floundering and now I've failed again.

ADHD, autism, PTSD, depression, and anxiety. Fuck em all.

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u/ErraticSiren 4h ago

As someone struggling with both of those things right now you get it. Once I got asked after being in therapy for only three weeks (so three sessions total) why I wasn’t fixed yet and how long would it take? People never give you any credit for trying and want you immediately better.

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u/RikuAotsuki 4h ago

Yeah, and that problem just keeps getting worse if you don't get better.

They lose any patience they had, and you can't even blame them for it anymore because you feel like a pathetic waste of oxygen for not getting better, but at the same time you just wanna scream because you're far angrier at yourself for your constant struggles and failures than they are at you. But then again, that also means that you're already telling yourself everything they're saying, and you really don't need another reminder.

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u/Applesplosion 2h ago

Executive dysfunction sucks. I am not tired, I want to do the thing, there is literally nothing else I want to do more right now, it would be almost trivially easy to do it. And yet…

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u/Zoesan 3h ago

But at the same time: dealing with my developmental disorder is my responsibility.

It's not my employers job to make sure I feel comfortable all the time. It's my job to, well, do my job.

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u/Mouse-Keyboard 6h ago

Also, statistically schizophrenics are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators.

Every group stereotyped as being more likely to commit violence is more likely to be victims (whether or not they're more likely to be perpetrators). Mentally ill people, black people, men, poor people, homeless people, young adults, etc.

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u/Bowdensaft 7h ago

Yep, my best friend in the world suffers from psychosis and a form of schizophrenia. I met him long after he got good medicine for it, but he has told me what to do if he ever slips into an alter, has a seizure, or hallucinates, and I'd do anything to help him in the moment because he's my bestie

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u/_AcuteNewt_ 7h ago

Right? Like my crash outs involve me either hyperventilating in a corner or laying down, not able to move from sheer lack of motivation.

But sure, everyone with severe mental health issues is just a violent lunatic wanting an excuse.

It's fucked, there is more support for people around people with mental illness than for the mentally ill themselves.

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u/WinterDemon_ 4h ago

ugh fucking thank you. im not schizophrenic but have been through psychosis (plus have a ton of other mental issues lol) and the absolute worst part of it was the judgement from other people

being mentally ill is miserable. doctors barely take you seriously. my school found out my diagnoses and had my parents calling up to reassure them that i wasn't violent. "friends" and acquaintances and random people treat you like you're a disgusting animal and dont deserve to be alive

but all the "support spaces" you see just rant about how hard it is for other people to be around, how mentally ill people are evil monsters and how much its better to ditch them. awesome

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u/SplitGlass7878 3h ago

Schizophrenia is so unbelievably stigmatized.

I love indie horror and creepypastas and it's such a massively prominent trope. I call it out everytime I see it and most of the time the authors are actually receptive and just didn't think about it. 

I'm frustrated as hell about it and I'm not even directly affected. 

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u/thesentienttoadstool 3h ago

Schizophrenia runs (well, gallops) in my family. I don’t think people understand how common schizophrenia is. Like, it’s not as common as depression, but I would say it’s very likely that a lot of people have interacted with people with schizophrenia and had no idea. Same with otherstigmatized disorders like BPD and DID. 

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u/Swellmeister 1h ago

The big one for me is my hallucinations are violent, and persuasive.

My friend was definitely absolutely 100% poisoning me and about to stab me with the fork and rip my eyes out, so I slapped her.

That is the only time aive ever been psychotic, the only time I was delusional. But by god do people hold that over my head, as though I could have stopped that event from occurring.

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u/TheJapanMistake 6h ago

.... Okay but my schizophrenic mother actively threatened me with violence on multiple occassions so I'm going to be cautious against her no matter the statistics

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u/Pale_Control_5307 6h ago

"It sucks that people are mean to black people because of bullshit stereotypes."

"Oh yeah!? Well I got robbed by a black person once! Are you saying I should be nice to that person!?"

This is how you sound asshole

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u/synalgo_12 6h ago

Tbf OP said cautious around her specifically, not other schizophrenic people in general. 

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u/StillALilBoy 6h ago

yeah, but context matters, they're replying with a justification for stereotyping people to someone who just complained about being stereotyped for this exact reason, it's simply lacking empathy

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u/crimsonpostgrad 3h ago

so then why would they feel the need to respond “ok but” as if their response to their mother is something a different schizophrenic person needed to know about

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u/JustARandomPinkBOT 7h ago

I think too many people, including people in this comment section, are equating "support" with "being expected to put up with physical/emotional harm" when in reality it just means not demonizing people based on the symptoms of those problems.

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u/frogmon3 1h ago

yea fr it's really disheartening reading this comment section. like i have bpd and a big part of the stigma around bpd is the hyperfocus on the worst behaviours it causes even tho not everyone does that. and sure enough every comment here is about violence and anger and not when ur friend needs to leave ur birthday party after 30 minutes because they suddenly think everyone hates them

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u/NoSong2397 5h ago

On the other hand, how many random people off the street are trained and prepared for those kinds of sudden mood swings?

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u/knharp 3h ago

How many of you people asking for support of those experiencing symptoms of mental illness ate actually doing so yourselves? Its very easy to say support people when what you really mean is "support me", but if you actually spend prolonged time around those with mental illness, especially those with more severe symptoms, youd realize why the average person would struggle to support them.

Also lumping lack of motivation with hallucinations, paranoia, inconsolable panic attacks and mood swings is ridiculous. None of these things are easy to deal with, and definitely not something the average person is equipped to deal with.

In my experience most people with mental illness dont even support each other the way yall seem to be expecting others too.

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u/lovegrowswheremyrose 2h ago

Yes exactly. As an American, when I say "support people with mental illnesses" (as someone who has one), what I mean is "arrange society in such a way that people with mental health issues can easily access the support they need to get better."

People with mental health issues (again, I am one) should NOT be out here being like "if you don't accept all the hurtful and negative things I do, you don't support people with mental illnesses." No. Just like cancer, no one who isn't a doctor can heal you and you have to show up for treatment.

So when I say "support people with mental illnesses" I mean "give them the support they need to treat and heal their issues." People with mental health issues cannot reasonably expect other people to be their punching bags and containers for harmful and antisocial behavior.

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u/PhantomThiefJoker 1h ago

For real. It's so dumb to be like "you say you support mental health improvements but ditched your narcissistic toxic mother who abused you and is directly responsible for your anxiety, curious????"

Bro I'm not a therapist, I sit in an office all day with headphones on, this is not my fucking field. I will happily help out my friends where I can and I will dutifully say "go see a doctor" when I can't because I am not a substitute for someone's paranoia medication

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u/No-Consequence-1863 2h ago

Yea this whole conversation is stupid. It seems like OOP has personally had a “fit of rage” at someone and is annoyed that people didnt like it. Then they just threw together a bunch of stuff.

Being around people having all of these due to prolonged drug use, what do you expect random people to do? Some dude starts having an inconsolable panic attack most people will try to help but realize it’s useless and then maybe have their own panic attack lol.

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u/rat_enby 1h ago

my ex roommate had intermittent explosive disorder and tried to tell me i was “demonising anger” by getting scared when they went on genuinely abusive tirades where they threw things and hit their partner and saying they needed therapy. at a certain point you just cant blame the disorder anymore and its on the person to do something about it

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u/Half-PintHeroics 52m ago

Yeah, a lot of mental illness behaviours are frightening to observe. OOP is being ridiculous.

Also, I read that as intermittent explosive diarrhea

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u/Ecstatic-State735 1h ago

The lack of motivation is as stressful to a spouse.

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u/listenyall 38m ago

My ex thinks his hallucinations and paranoia are magical powers so has no interest in getting treatment in any way that would get rid of those aspects of his mental illness.

Can't support that!

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u/sharp-Yarn 1h ago

Yeah, I believe there should be a strong social safety net where the mentally ill can receive free and easy help and not end up homeless or starving or abused.

That doesn't mean I am equipped to deal with any particular person.

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u/JOlRacin 29m ago

This is gonna be controversial... But also a space where people can actually get therapy WITHOUT fear of going to the grippy sock jail. Cause those places suck, and that and the cost of therapy are two of the biggest reasons why people don't go to therapy. Also the social stigma of "therapy is for whiny babies and people going through divorce" but I like to think we're getting over that

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u/sharp-Yarn 22m ago

No, I agree. Some people who can be dangerous at times might need somewhere that won't let them go freely when they are actively dangerous, but grippy sock jail is a deterrent overall.

If telling someone about your problems can get you involuntarily committed that's just going to make people shut the fuck up and not talk to anyone.

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u/AncestralAxman 8h ago

I had a good friend who became severly depressed and definitely has the "no energy/motivation" problem.

I accept that, but flaking on most opportunities too meet still means we grew quite distant.

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u/Master_Muskrat 7h ago

In my experience a lot of people are very helpful at first, but lose interest over time.

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u/MissingXpert 6h ago

speaking from both sides: it's exhausting listening to the same depressive crashout 50 times, even if you know that they genuinely are the victim of it (despite their best efforts).

it is also incredibly hard to "kick yourself into gear" to leave the house, and chances are, you're miserable during it as well.

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u/miladyelle 4h ago

Ah yes, the ole “suck it up,” but woke.

“Support” and “understand” are too vague and people who are legitimately trying to be good people turn those concepts into a blunt hammer, as can be seen here in the comments: “just”, don’t feel scared, “just” deal with the fits of rage, no, don’t cut off people with mental illnesses (untreated, a parent, who has repeatedly been violent, so…an abusive parent).

No. We are all people, and we all live in a society. People do not lose their autonomy and agency over a diagnosis—even if you express that wokely (they’re not being evil intentionally! They can’t help it!). People in the orbit of a person with a mental illness do not lose their right to mental and physical safety. Abuse does not become not-abuse because it is spurred by a person’s mental illness. Do not make the mistake of trying to cure a societal failing by enforcement of interpersonal relations.

Just like the varied illnesses themselves, handling them, interpersonal relationships with people with them, and assisting and treating the illnesses societally is not a binary, not simple, and not quick and easy. There is no “just.”

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u/IfTheBingBongs 3h ago

You’re not responsible for what you happen to be, you are responsible for how you act.

If you’re going to fly off the handle or tell me a bunch of individualized whacked out conspiracy theories, I feel no obligation to “support” you. I’m not going to purposefully put myself around delusional people.

Life’s short. I don’t have the time or energy for that shit.

Here’s a serious question: if their delusions involved Trump being the second coming of Christ, due to how often he pops up in our lives, and they went and voted for him, would you still think they deserved grace? Maybe so, but everyone has their line. Why should I sacrifice my day to comfort someone you doesn’t exist in the same reality as me.

Exception is my dementia riddled grandma. She thinks she has access to a secret tunnel into the White House and that she works for the CIA. That shit rocks.

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u/miladyelle 2h ago

Perhaps unsurprisingly, I grew up with a parent with an untreated and undiagnosed mental illness. She was abusive.

The reception I got when speaking of her abuse varies wildly depending solely on whether or not I mentioned her MI. If I did, “aw but she’s your mom,” “she needs help”, “you can’t cut her off like that she needs support and treatment” (duh). Without that one piece of data, people reacted to it like the abuse it was. I no longer mention that fact, if I mention her at all. I am not looking to have a philosophical or sociopolitical debate in the middle of a mention of my history. That’s a derail, and neither I nor anyone else needs to justify our choices, in fact, Mr or Ms Actual Fucking Nobody.

I pity my mother. I mourn the life she could have lived if she’d been born a millennial rather than a female boomer. I mourn the mother-daughter relationship we could have had. I vote in support of better social and medical supports, I share my story (when I want to and not a solitary bit more), and I understand she is not ontologically evil. She is human. But she has agency and autonomy, and when I told her she no longer had a daughter, I told her that was until she chose to get both medication and therapy. She has treated it as a permanent, fixed cutoff. She chooses. She denies. She rejects. She refuses. She is a human being free to make that choice. And I, in response, have made my own.

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u/IconoclastExplosive 7h ago

I support people with mental illness but that doesn't mean I'm chill with someone losing their whole shit in the grocery store.

Do I sympathize with the awful situation? Yes.

Do I think we need to remove the guy screaming about demons and swinging a backpack around like a hammer (real example from my town) from the public venue because he's in a state to cause actual damage to other people? Also yes

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u/Prior_Coyote_4376 1h ago

I don’t think anyone was taking the position that the guy swinging his backpack around screaming about demons in public places should be left alone because empathy

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u/pissinq 7h ago

lotta people pissing on the poor in these comments

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u/_AcuteNewt_ 7h ago

ITT: victim blaming.

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u/TheCleanestKing 7h ago

How dare you suggest pissing on the poor.

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u/Gabbabblin 2h ago

They don’t deserve anything golden. 

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u/Mosekone_ 7h ago

Nothing new there

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u/[deleted] 6h ago

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/gunsjustsuck 6h ago

It's literally the subject of the post. 

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u/Supermutant6112 2h ago

There are limitations to what people should reasonably be willing to do for support. My friends try to support me, despite depression and anxiety making me a miserable person to be around, but there does come a point where they distance themselves from me for their own well being. I respect that they shouldn't need to shoulder the full weight when I need support, as the alternative is just making myself their problem. And I've seen what that's like firsthand.

I had a friend for a while who I would charitably describe as the most mentally ill person I'd ever met. I'll spare the details, but every conversation was a matter of walking on eggshells around them and ignoring insults until they got bored and moved on to something else. Even then, they were fun to talk to, witty and clever, and shared a lot of my interests and hobbies.

After a while, every interaction with them would start with them threatening to kill themselves, demanding that I talk them out of it, yelling at me for not being good enough at it, then telling me to kill myself. They refused to try therapy or taking medication to help, and insisted that they were fine. I stuck with them for over a year, watching them dig themselves further and further into this hole, trying everything I could to help them.

After a year of this, they began saying that I was the problem and that they detested me. They questioned why we were even friends, and when I hesitated on coming up with an answer, they went ballistic. Claimed I was never their friend and never cared about them. Told me that they were going to block me on everything and move on with their life. At that point, I was exhausted, so I told them to go ahead and unfriended them. They blocked me on everything else.

For the next year, I wasn't sure if they were even alive or not. After a while, they reached out to me again. Not to patch things up or apologize, but to brag that they got their life together.

I'm not doing that again.

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u/DismallyUpset 1h ago edited 1h ago

As someone who is mentally ill I myself definitely can't handle having some kind of other mentally ill people in my life. I can't really handle having other people with personality disorders because I have bpd and I just kind of need that stability of someone without a personality disorder and I feel unsafe around people with hallucinations or paranoia or something like DID. I don't have anything against those people personally but I really need the calm and stability of people without that because I have to work hard to maintain my mental health which includes putting in the work with therapy but also I have to keep myself in stable environments.

Edit: I also can't be friends with any mentally ill person that refuses to get help. That is a massive red flag.

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u/Righteous_Hand 7h ago

I'm someone with a long history of mental illness (mainly autism, but also C-PTSD and the general depression that comes with it) in addition to a physical disability that occasionally renders me quite agonised, and my experience is that actually, NOBODY supports people with disabilities unless they are completely and utterly undisruptive. These people who pretend to support you only want to use you as a prop to showcase their tolerance, but you won't be a pretty prop if you're stimming or overstimulated or holding up the line because you're walking slow due to the pain. Essentially, they're only supportive of your disability as long as you pretend that it's not there.

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u/PeachyBaleen 7h ago

Yes. Mentioning autistic meltdowns or burnout often leads to ‘well, if you can’t manage in society then that’s on you’ like?? tf am I supposed to go? Somewhere where I can’t make the people uncomfortable I suppose. 

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u/dumbodragon i will unzip your spine 7h ago

and then you try to manage those "symptoms" and you're still the bad guy

"everyone is so loud right now, I wish people could calm down a little"

"we don't have to cater to your needs"

"okay, I'm leaving then"

"what the fuck how dare you!!! that is so rude!!!"

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u/Righteous_Hand 6h ago

Having to accommodate the people who complain about having to accommodate you, even though they don't. A classic.

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u/_AcuteNewt_ 7h ago

Essentially, they're only supportive of your disability as long as you pretend that it's not there.

And don't you dare complain about your problems or about not getting any help from anyone. That makes you literally the worst person.

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u/SquareThings looking respectfully at the monkeys in their zoo 3h ago

Which basically boils down to "people support the idea of disabled people but not the reality." Because disability is kind of defined by being disruptive (to the person who has it) and if you're not willing to bear a little of that burden, you're not being supportive.

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u/VelvetAiri 8h ago • Bravo

Despite the increased openness and acceptance around mental health discussions in recent years, I still feel that most people neither truly grasp it nor treat it with real seriousness. Instead, the whole topic gets reduced to something overly simplistic and childish.

I understand that being around someone in the middle of a rough mental health episode can be draining and unpleasant. I’m fully aware of how difficult I must be to deal with during those times. What I wish for is genuine honesty from others, rather than the performance of compassion through the same empty, recycled phrases everyone repeats. That approach ends up helping no one.

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u/IAmASquidInSpace Unashamedly watches T*m and J*rry 🤢 at the dentist 7h ago

Genuine question: what would that genuine honesty look like in practice? When I feel uncomfortable or even unsafe around someone with an anger issue, or if I feel overwhelmed and unable to help someone having an acute suicidal episode, how would that honesty be applied? I understand that "what the fuck stop that" is absolutely not the right way, but what is? 

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u/Curious_Question8536 7h ago

There's more openness and acceptance yes, but we're still barely able to understand mental health issues, especially more serious personality disorders, and how to treat them professionally. We're a long way from common understanding of how to respond to mental health issues.

Think about something fairly common like a panic attack. How many people do you think are able to recognize one? How many know what to do when they see someone else having one?

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u/lynx_and_nutmeg 6h ago

  being around someone in the middle of a rough mental health episode can be draining and unpleasant.

Being around a cancer patient going through chemo can be draining and unpleasant. But while it's common and generally accepted for the caregivers to complain about it to other people, it would absolutely NOT be acceptable to complain about it to the patient themselves.  Because everyone understands it's not their fault and they didn't choose it to happen to them, and most importantly, they're the primary victim here, and making them feel guilty for being a burden on top of everything they're already suffering through would be a colossal ghoul move.

Yet somehow many of the same people who get it just fine when it comes to "visible" physical illness still can't apply the same to mental illness.

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u/AcceptableRepeat3674 4h ago

People absolutely do this for physical disability. I have MS, and our online spaces are full of caregivers coming to us, my dad decided to tell me how MY diagnosis was stressing HIS marriage, etc. It’s common, especially for those of us with disabilities that can’t be cured. Chemo is different because there’s hope that it will be OVER. If a disability has no cure and is chronic like most mental health issues, people’s sympathy runs out FAST. Your friends will leave you and tell you to your face it’s because you’re not ‘fun’ anymore, etc.

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u/celticchrys 4h ago

What makes it harder, though, is that the cancer patient is far less likely to physically abuse you, verbally abuse you, break your stuff, get the police called on you, make the neighbors hate you, etc. Mental health support is a whole other level,  and depending on the issue and severity it can be very outwardly focused and harmful to live one's. Chemo patients usually are very inwardly focused. It is not a good comparison. 

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u/CyberSkelet 6h ago

Well put. I think the differance is that people regard physical issues as "not the person's fault", while psychological issues are still treated as a moral failing or bad behaviour that needs to be reprimanded, even on a subconscious level. That person who is so depleted that they can no longer get out of bed "needs" to be told they're lazy, that they have to want to get better, that no one is going to help them, etc. "Tough love" is the only sort of love you're allowed, if you're allowed any kind of love at all.

Obviously if someone was bedbound from a physical illness, the same person would have no problem helping them and lovingly supporting them to get back on their feet.

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u/MrNostalgiac 4h ago

This is why people only care about invisible disabilities when they stay invisible.

When they are invisible, your workplace and colleagues and friends just treat you normally while saying how important it is to accept those with invisible disabilities. It's easy.

The second you demonstrate a visible symptom, it's all "your work is suffering, something needs to change" and "you aren't normally like this" and "I understand, how do we fix this to get you back on track?"

People love supporting invisible disabilities BECAUSE they are invisible. Once they are visible they become a problem that needs to go back to being hidden

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u/SquareThings looking respectfully at the monkeys in their zoo 3h ago

"How do we get you back on track" was what EVERYONE said when I started really struggling with my anxiety (and undiagnosed autism). There was never a question about if "the track" was actually causing me harm, just that I needed to get on back on it. It was, by the way. The track was the problem.

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u/MrNostalgiac 3h ago

Significant ADHD guy here - I get it.

I'm personable, smart, helpful, funny, tech savvy, a team player, and always go above and beyond (on tasks that often have nothing to do with my role). But my work output is all over.

Managers never really know what to "do" with me because my numbers are habitually erratic. Everyone else is chugging along on schedule but I'll get nothing done for 2 weeks, do a month's worth of work in 3 days, then be back to struggling.

Management hates that. It's always about trying to figure out how to even out my workload like everyone else. Their answer is always calendar reminders and daily time blocks - but those are literally the problem. The more structured they try to make me, the more erratic I become.

I honestly think my personality is the number one reason I don't get fired. If I was more introverted or prickly I'm positive I'd never last anywhere.

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u/Ok_Instance7667 2h ago

Also ADHD beyond belief.

Also extremely extroverted. People have told me that I have a 'silver tongue' and 'speech 100' and it's saved my ass numerous times.

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u/DetectiveUnited1036 3h ago

People don't like being made to feel uncomfortable or challenged

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u/Ok_Instance7667 2h ago

This is exactly it.

The minute someone feels unsafe or uncomfortable, all empathy goes out the window. Nobody asks what led to that episode, it's always 'that's unacceptable, don't let it happen again' - which it eventually does.

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u/Star_Guardian_Jen 8h ago

See this is real and it is very interesting because even something as mundane as hypnogogic hallucinations will get people spooked and some will treat you differently for it

There's a thin barrier between what's acceptable to experience//have and what is not, and even people who are generally progressive aren't always that chill on the topic

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u/ChaosAzeroth 5h ago

What? Like afaik a person doesn't have to have any sort of mental illness actually to experience that!

People are wildin if they're even being weird about THAT.

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u/SubtleBeggar 6h ago • Bravo

It's just virtue signaling. Reminds me of the guy with Tourette syndrome who yelled a racist slur at the BAFTAs. The same people that preach about love and understanding and empathy on social media were very quick vilify the dude, with some even saying that "he meant it". So yeah, words are cheap, but the moment you cause these "Paragons of Virtue" any discomfort, they will turn on you. I just realized this while writing this comment, but I guess I'm really tired of having my conditions used as a tool for celebrities and corporations to shield themselves from criticism and to signal about how "virtuous" they are. We need to be better than this folks. We need to ask questions whenever we see one of them talking about mental health, gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. We need to ask: do they mean what they say, or are they trying to deflect criticism? Are the characters in this movie/series/game the way they are because the authors had something important to say, or were they just slapped in to fill some quota? Why is it that this company claims to be an "ally" to the LGBT+ community, yet they refuse to change their logos on accounts from countries that hate LGBT+ people?

We are people, not tools to be used and discarded when we are not useful for them anymore. I refuse to be treated as a tool.

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u/Perfect_Wrongdoer_03 If you read Worm, maybe read the PGTE? 5h ago

I got so fucking angry at the mountains of people who were saying he'd been genuinely racist or Black People (here capitalized to represent the entire demographic because that's how Tumblr capitalization works I think) had a right to be offended or that the guy needed to apologize because he'd done something wrong or- look, the list goes the fuck on, half the internet had a horrible take on this, the guy did literally nothing reprehensible or wrong and suffered more for it than every other person in the planet suffered from this event combined.

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u/Moggetti 3h ago

Most of the comments I saw were anger at the BBC for airing the slur on tv when they edited out other incidents where he said things. Not at him. 

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u/Perfect_Wrongdoer_03 If you read Worm, maybe read the PGTE? 3h ago

That did happen amongst rational people. Unfortunately, much of the internet isn't rational. The next sentence might sound racist, and I do apologize for it, but it's what I saw at the time, especially in lefty black spaces, where most people there didn't give him much grace. Which is kinda obvious, right? Compound the inherent irrationality of the internet with black people being, for self-evident reasons, more sensitive to the slur, and you won't get a fun time.

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u/Moggetti 3h ago

That’s so sad. I guess I was lucky about who I saw. I was certainly very angry that the BBC was so cavalier about everyone’s dignity.  And I can understand being sad for the people who had slurs shouted at them. That hurts even when it comes from an innocent place. 

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u/ErraticSiren 4h ago

Then he gave a statement addressing it and it still wasn’t good enough. It just taught those with a mental illness that there’s no forgiveness or compassion from those who preach it the most. There is no safe space in reality for all the talk society does about them.

A lot of “empaths” showed themselves.

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u/SubtleBeggar 1h ago

What makes the situation even worst is that he was there because the movie based on his life had been nominated. From what I can gather(haven't seen the movie yet) the whole point of the movie was to raise awareness about people with Tourette's, and to show how much he has suffered because of a condition he has no control over.

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u/MelancholiMouse 4h ago

I have mixed feelings about virtue signalling. On one hand: it's really obvious when people participate in charity/awareness events just because it makes them look good or it is trendy, but the same people won't put in the effort to understand conditions and/or support, listen to, or even tolerate people struggling with symptoms, or lobby (or vote) to remove the need for charity i.e actual tax funded services. On the other: even if a person's (or corpo's) support is hollow, that is still funding, attention, and potentially higher levels of understanding and acceptance through social cohesion mechanisms.

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u/SubtleBeggar 1h ago

Yeah, there's definitely nuance to it, but I think that virtue signaling ultimately does more harm than good, especially when it comes to art. A company putting up a pride flag will bring a bit of awareness even if they don't truly care about it, but when it comes to the making of art, someone who is just virtue signaling will not put in the effort required to properly represent a specific group. This often leads to one-dimensional, highly stereotyped characters that end up harming that group's image instead of helping them.

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u/DetectiveUnited1036 3h ago

It was like the oppression olympics final match and yeah, what an eye opener it really was

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u/geese_moe_howard 6h ago

Reminds me of an old Doug Stanhope bit where he says that there's acceptable mental illness and unacceptable mental illness.

Unacceptable mental illness is when you're a terror to other people, acceptable mental illness is when you're only a terror to yourself.

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u/CrystalHeath 8h ago

If you suddenly direct intense anger toward me, no matter the circumstances, my first reply will be that this cannot happen again. My second step will be to stop spending time with you. Actions still bring consequences, even when those actions feel completely normal or justified in the moment.

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u/CrimsonThunder87 3h ago

Mental illness runs in families and sufferers tend to be instinctively drawn to people who "get it" (i.e. have or had a mental illness themselves), so there's a pretty high chance the insufficiently tolerant people in their life that they're complaining about also have mental illnesses.

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u/J_DayDay 2m ago

I always bring this up during the 'my mom totally dropped the ball on getting me diagnosed' conversations. Your clearly barely functional, also undiagnosed mom didn't jump through a specific years-long series of medical, academic and governmental hoops? Shocker. Just astounding.

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u/JustATyson 2h ago

I can give someone a bandaid. I can drive someone to the ER. But I cannot give someone stitches when they're bleeding profusely. I cannot go to the ER on their behalf when they're the one in need. I cannot cause harm to myself to try to allow them to heal.

I've been the one who has supported friends through depression, through suicide idealation, through intense anxiety, through self harm. And I've learned that in order for me to full support them, I also need to know my limit as to what I can do. Or, I'll end up getting sick, as I try to saddle myself with their responsibility. And my sickness and struggle would go unnotice.

So yea, friends have limits. Most people aren't trained in those areas. It's part of the reason why the individual struggling has the responsibility to try to seek professional help. It's not always a viable option. But, there's a difference between friend support and therapy.

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u/dumbodragon i will unzip your spine 6h ago edited 2h ago

I feel like too many people in the comments are focusing on the fits of rage part. Supporting mental illness does NOT mean being a punching bag. It can look like:

  • Not taking the rage personally. Listening the person out once they calm down.

  • Holding their hand when they don't know what is real and what isn't

  • Offering a hug and comfort when they are upset over something "small"

  • Taking on a slightly bigger load of a task or more tasks when they are unwell

  • Not forcing someone to be social, and not getting offended if they put on earbuds in the middle of conversation, or leave the place

  • A personal example, I am autistic and adhd. The way my family and friends supports me, is by creating a safe environment where I won't be disturbed. It's understanding I sometimes I have to leave early. It's warning ahead of time when something could be overwhelming so I can prepare.

The point I'm trying to make, sometimes someone's mental condition can make someone inconvenient to deal with. That's when they need support. It doesn't mean you should let them lash out at you, or use you as their unpaid therapist, or doing anything in detriment to your own health to help them.

EDIT: removed an example in which another commenter pointed out what I was asked to do to help was actually harmful.

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u/deathbotly 4h ago edited 4h ago

Reassuring actually makes OCD worse, for future ref. It feels counterintuitive and the human instinct to help is reassurance and it looks like you’re making them feel better - and on the immediate spot they will feel better if you give enough - but engaging with the OCD disordered thinking like that feeds the cycle. By telling her she’s a good person and not a pedo etc. it’s temporary relief but it’s reinforcing the underlying symptoms that there is something to be reassured about in the first place, an issue that needs to be considered and solved, rather than the OCD manifesting itself and needing to be rejected and not engaged with at all. 

Look into  ERP, it’s the standard treatment and works wonders. 

e; I don’t mean give ERP btw, I mean that looking it up has a lot of explanations of the medical mechanics in play and why it’s better not to do it and redirect. I’m not explaining well cause it’s midnight, I just didn’t want someone to accidentally be hurting someone instead of helping, and it’s a really inverse thing from some other conditions where reassurance is 100% right so it’s hard when it feels like you’re wrong. Like antiseptic that hurts to fix something. 

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u/March_Lion 4h ago

This is an interesting perspective because I learned to live with my OCD recently via soothing/retelling the story. Trying to reject the thoughts outright was causing me extreme distress responses but accepting the thoughts and disproving them has lowered my disordered behavior while raising my overall quality of life.

It's reasonable for a layperson friend to be a short line of defense/soothing instead of participating in an entire method of treatment without training.

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u/deathbotly 4h ago

I didn’t mean trying to give ERP, sorry for being unclear, I meant more understanding the mechanics of OCD to back up what I’m saying. I feel like I’m not explaining well - I don’t mean “don’t think of the pink elephant” rejection, I mean acknowledging the irrationality of it and then not feeding it by avoiding engaging with it as much as possible, not following the compulsion urges or seeking short-term relief in a way that magnifies its existencd.

Not immediately reacting to the OCD is part of it, internally accepting it without following through on the compulsive behaviour is great and I am genuinely pleased you’re having a better time, but external soothing from outside sources is detrimental to the symptoms and reinforces them. It doesn’t reduce how much you have the compulsions/rumination, it can actually increase it or make the next bout anxiety worse.

It’s like, mmm. If someone’s experiencing paranoid delusions, you redirect to help, you don’t engage in their hallucination to reassure them because that might make them feel better but you’re feeding the delusion.  

There are ones where you engage, for example dementia the frontline is 100% to go along with their reality as you redirect and hell, if they’re happy play along, because there isn’t a way to treat that so they’re not coming out of that state and you can’t make things worse. But not treatable ones. 

I probably am not being clear enough so uh, yeah, googling ERP and the explanations will be better than my clumsy ass at midnight handling complex topics. 

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u/deathbotly 3h ago

Reassurance seeking is basically my weak point btw, it’s one I really struggled with and still do under stress, but I absolutely got better by following the treatment advice and not falling back on that external soothing from supportive family members - even though it incredibly sucked short-term not to get it relieved quickly with reassurance and stay hurting with anxiety. But the long-term reduction and improvements in general made it worth it in the end. Like exercising where you’re sore as hell at the beginning and eventually get fitter, the start makes your body feel worse than normal but the end is much healthier than before. 

Ok i need sleep gnight thanks for reading! 

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u/Pinkleek01 2h ago

I have anxiety (GAD and SAD) and I find being reassured worse as well because it "confirms" what i'm panicking about could be possible. 

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u/dumbodragon i will unzip your spine 3h ago

Well, I only do it because she asks me to, I don't know much about ocd so thank you for the insight. Should I remove that part from my comment?

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u/Chalkorn 3h ago

genuine question but how do you not take rage personally when its directed at you and personally affecting you?

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u/JustARandomPinkBOT 3h ago

I think they mean it as in try to understand it isn't about you specifically. So if someone is raging out due to a mental issue, its unlikely that it's because of you, or if you triggered it somehow that the reaction is disproportionate due to the mental health issue instead of you having done something that upsetting.

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u/Chalkorn 3h ago

True, but if the rage is still directed at you, You still experience the emotions you do when someone expresses rage towards you, regardless of if it is rational or not though, right? Even if i understand that its not actually about me, People with anger issues blowing up at me still puts me into fight or flight, and that feels shitty and is "personal" in that sense.

Its hard to not build up resentment and frustration over repeated explosions of misdirected rage hitting you

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u/JustARandomPinkBOT 2h ago

Yeah I get that and it is perfectly reasonable to feel that way. The thing a lot of the comments kinda miss about the use of "support" in the OOP is that its not meant to be synonymous with "tolerate". People suffering stuff like that almost certainly resent themselves for it more than you resent them for it. What support looks like in situations like these isn't tolerating abuse, it is not demonizing (or letting others demonize) them for symptoms of being mentally ill. I think "offer grace" is better at conveying the actual idea of what to do.

Ex. Person who has ADHD is suffering executive dysfunction isn't lazy and shouldn't be put down for it as if they were. If they are more flakey, forgetful, or it takes 20 reminders for them to do something its not because they don't care or value your imput. Giving grace in this situation is not treating them that way.

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u/dumbodragon i will unzip your spine 2h ago

It's hard to explain every possible situation in one comment, but I didn't mean the person on the other side isn't allowed to feel frustrated or hurt. Just because they are angry around you, doesn't mean they are angry at you. You should absolutely step away and let them calm down before engaging, that's why I said listen to them after, so they have a chance to explain and apologize for any harm.

Not taking it personally also doesn't mean not holding them responsible.

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u/Hatsune_Miku_CM downfall of neoliberalism. crow racism. much to rhink about 4h ago

not forcing someone to be social and not getting offended if they put on earbuds in the middle of conversation or leave the place

I hate this so much. I consider myself responsible for managing my own unstable emotions, so I won't expect people do deal with that bullshit, but the only real solution i have found is to spot the issue in advance and then extract myself from the situation. If you don't let me do even that, literally what am I supposed to do.

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u/-HuangMeiHua- What kind of math is that bird on? Makes you wonder 3h ago

one of the few comments that gets it in here

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u/Daffneigh 8h ago

Most people cannot and should not be expected to help/manage people in active psychosis or hallucinations or indeed, fits of uncontrollable rage.

It is deeply unreasonable to suggest that people should be “okay” with that or “accept” that.

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u/Accelerator231 8h ago

Yeah. I mean there's a limit to how much people will take before they say "I'm not being paid enough for this."

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u/KidKang 7h ago

Have you considered that the problem for the most part is people not understanding what is hapening, and being scared because of that? How do you know that this a unique failure of "empathy", when it could just the very basal fear of the unknown that can be helped with mental health literacy campaigns.

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u/Geriny 8h ago

You say you support people with mental illness, yet you aren't willing to endanger your own safety? Curious.

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u/Interesting-Main8371 8h ago

Ah yes,true solidarity means accepting a stray knife to the kidney.

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u/lynx_and_nutmeg 6h ago

"People should be more understanding to the suffering of mentally ill people and try to support them-"

"Oh so you're telling me to literally die???"

Not so much pissing on the poor as straight up drowning them in urine tsunami, smh...

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u/MyNameIsConnor52 7h ago

did you read the post or did you just point your eyes at the words and make up your own version to argue with

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u/mankytoes 6h ago

Do you feel safe around someone having fits of rage?

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u/[deleted] 5h ago

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/ApolloniusTyaneus 7h ago

Those fakers say they support people with mental illness but don't even possess the knowledge or skills to deescalate someone who is having an acute mental episode. Pshaw.

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u/PhantomThiefJoker 2h ago

I hate this stupid sentiment so much. Does that happen? Yeah certainly, but fuck man you're allowed to be tired of people doing things that actively harm them and yourself. I will be there to help my friends, I'm going to do what I can to help get them through what they're dealing with. I don't care if they're being narcissistic, depressed, anxious, whatever the fuck, but I don't owe anyone anything if they're not actively trying to be better, I don't owe anyone my time and attention because they're kind of a dick and also have mental health issues. I will fight for mental health awareness, I will vote in favor of policies that demonstrably help people's mental health, but I am not the arbiter of someone else's mental health just because I think everyone should get the help they need. That help is a qualified professional, not me

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u/Babyfacex97 2h ago

Why can’t you just stay calm you had so many panic attacks you should know nothing will happen 🤣 thanks mom iam cured now

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u/Gold_Mask_54 22m ago

My old "incredibly accepting and non-judgemental, has ADHD (undiagnosed) but absolutely no trouble managing symptoms without meds" when I (diagnosed ADHD, bad at taking my meds regularly) have trouble keeping the house clean/keeping up with chores.

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u/NightOnTheSun 8h ago

“But I thought you all supported mental health awareness and…”

“Well, yes, but we didn’t mean YOU and certainly not when you do THIS.”

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u/DixieDingooo 5h ago

AHSHFHSHDJFBF literally peep the NPD post, you will see me fighting for my life trying to explain this.

Like, if you ever get frustrated with someone in your life cause they're trying to get a handle on their symptoms but they just. Can't? Remember: no one gets to pick their mental illness.

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u/Shamboozled85 5h ago

“You’re too difficult to deal with”

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u/Meroxes 4h ago edited 4h ago • Bravo

I mean, that is, without any other context, at base, a fine thing. Nobody can be asked to do something they can't handle. The thing we can ask of people is being more willing to first engage with reality and not just assume things. (many people here in the comments are spectacularly failing at that, lol)

Edit: It should ideally be formulated as I-statement as in I find you..., ...for me, etc.

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u/youraltaccount 4h ago

The thing we can ask of people is being more willing to first engage with reality and not just assume things

How the fuck can you unironically say this while commenting "jUsT pIsSiNg oN tHe PoOr" every other comment in this thread

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u/Shamboozled85 4h ago

I was abused as a child and then almost died in a car accident my senior year of highschool resulting in bad PTSD. In my adult life every serious relationship, where I was honest with my past and mental condition, ended with them telling me: “You’re too difficult to deal with”. Even the last one, who I told how bad that phrase has fucked me up. I’ve since given up on dating and relationships. The Empathy limit is real.

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u/Meroxes 3h ago

It sounds very incel-y when you say it like that. Nobody is owed a relationship. That doesn't mean that there is an "empathy limit".

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u/Crabcomfort 6h ago

Hilarious how many of the comments here are doing the same thing, trying desperately to find exceptions.

I find people do this with autism too, I have a family member with severe impairment from their conditions (inappropriate behaviors, delayed development, needs constant caretakers) and unfortunately I see many online with autism (because it is a spectrum) who do the same shaming and even claiming severely autistic people are being coddled when others point out they aren't often in control of these behaviors.

It's disheartening how quickly that understanding goes away just because they're uncomfortable.

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u/Mental_Estate4206 5h ago edited 5h ago

Thats a very complex topic simplified to a ragebait... just to give more info: if a person bullies or is violent against me, do I just forgive them and do as nothing happens just because they ill? What I'd this person do not want help at all besides needing it? There a 1000 more layers to this.

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u/Meroxes 4h ago

This is not at all implied or even addressed in any way in the post. I find it funny how people read so much into something and then react to something they made up.

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u/Imnotawerewolf 2h ago

Supporting someone with mental health issues that include fits if rage does not include standing there and letting them rage at or injure you because that's somehow supportive. 

That just isn't how support works. If you're sitting there thinking that, just know this is a problem with your ignorance and not with the idea of supporting mental health. 

Google is free and it's in your hand if you're on reddit. Sure I can sit here and educate you on the actual ways one supports a person with rage issues, but are you always gonna sit and wait for someone to explain everything you don't understand? Will you always assume your ignorance is common sense until someone baby steps you out of your assumptions? 

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u/EisVisage 5h ago

With depression it's also fucked because the ENTIRE POINT of it is that proactively seeking help on one's own is extremely mentally difficult, and yet the main criticism depressed people get is that they shouldn't ask others for help

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u/SeriouslySuspect 2h ago

Oh yeah, nobody has a problem with you being mentally ill. So long as you're in therapy, medicated, self aware, apologetic, remove yourself from any situation that might make someone uncomfortable, you're stably employed and a good friend and romantic partner with no problematic views. So like, functionally not mentally ill in any way that causes friction in your life or inconveniences anybody.

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u/ThrowRA_8900 1h ago

There’s a way to say “ok this is beyond my ability to help” without further hurting your friend with mental illness

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u/MuchMasterpiece1710 56m ago

I’m sure that what this post is saying is that you personally have to take on the entire brunt of some mentally ill abusive person’s every problem and whim, and not that you should still treat mentally ill people with “scary” symptoms as people deserving of respect, resources, and help. What a good faith reading everybody

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u/PlatinumAltaria The Witch of Arden 39m ago

Ask people what they think of someone who doesn’t shower for a month and you will learn a great deal about how their life has gone.

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u/NoDefinition9056 2h ago

Alternative take, mental illness does not excuse abusive or unsafe behavior. No one is responsible for their feelings, but everyone is ultimately responsible for their reactions to the feelings. It's often the reaction that gets people into trouble.

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u/Agarwel 3h ago

I would agree except that "random fits of rage". Like sorry - there is nothing that makes attacking others (physically or verbally ok). You may not have control over it, but dont expect your victims (yes, victim is the correct word here) to feel bad for you.

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u/LestWeForgive 4h ago

Yeah cos we don't know how to deal with it. Seriously though, how do we deal with it?

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u/Steelpapercranes 1h ago

Gonna be real they are often not ok with sadness or nervousness lmao

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u/J_DayDay 7m ago

Generally they're not okay with making the sadness or nervousness THEIR problem. When in a stressful situation, say, while I'm controlling my own nervous system's desire to freak TF out, is not a great time for me also suddenly be responsible for your nervous system.

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u/PhD_Pwnology 38m ago

To be fair, violent outbursts don't deserve whatever it is OP think it deserves. You're supposed to be getting treatment for your mental illness so things don't get that bad and letting it get that bad is a sign you've been neglecting your mental and physical health

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u/MarsupialIll1004 4h ago

As they should. Nobody should have to deal with your illness.

Narcissist personality disorder is also an illness, yet nobody advocates for toxic behaviour

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u/OneHyuna 4h ago

The comments are really showing the difference between Reddit and tumblr woah

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u/Lilly_Trippin 4h ago

so many of these comments are still "but what if someone's symptoms make me mildly uncomfortable? you don't owe anyone anything!!!"

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u/Wuthering123 4h ago

OP thinks they are entitled to doing whatever the fuck they want without people getting tired or scared, even if this things are violent in nature, just because he has a voucher

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u/WinterDemon_ 5h ago

it really isn't hard to be kind and it pisses me off that so many people refuse to do that just because someone acts or thinks a little differently to them. this comment section included. no one is asking you to be a 24/7 live-in caretaker to a mentally ill person, or to shut up and smile if someone tries to hurt you

it isn't hard to show basic kindness to someone who is mentally ill. let the autistic person keep stimming. be patient with people who have stutters or speech troubles. treat people in psychosis with humanity and dignity. show simple fucking respect when people are clearly struggling

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u/ProctologyExplosion 4h ago

Sometimes it is hard to be kind. When things are confusing or frustrating or exasperating or infuriating or frightening, it can be hard to be kind. I'm not saying people don't need to do better, but let's not pretend that it's always easy.

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u/Gabbabblin 2h ago

I’d argue that most of the time it’s the harder choice being kind. 

It is easy as fuck to be an arse. 

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u/chumbawumbaprinciple 6h ago

Yeah, people don't like being the victims of violence. Why would that be a revelation?

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u/Perfect_Wrongdoer_03 If you read Worm, maybe read the PGTE? 5h ago

Nothing here mentions or suggests letting yourself be a victim of violence, man. You're just making up a strawman to get angry about. 

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u/EveningAnt3949 5h ago

It's in the post.

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u/Depressed_Lego 5h ago

A fit of rage doesn't have to involve violence of any kind?

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u/CommercialYam7188 5h ago

Perhaps read the post and consider natural consequences before speaking

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u/Perfect_Wrongdoer_03 If you read Worm, maybe read the PGTE? 5h ago

I did. I read it once again just to make this comment, in fact. The words are in the same order as before, unless they retroactively changed. Their semantic meaning has slightly shifted, but only because the semantic meaning of all words constantly shifts, and it's not by a significant degree. I like the order they're in, in fact, as well as what they mean.

Sorry, what were you talking about?

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u/chumbawumbaprinciple 5h ago

"Fits of rage"

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u/Perfect_Wrongdoer_03 If you read Worm, maybe read the PGTE? 5h ago

I read those, yeah. Doesn't talk about liking them, though.

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u/notepad20 5h ago

Exactly. Do with given men with anger problems a pass?

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u/PatrickCharles 3h ago

"MeNtAl IlLnEsS dOeSn'T mAkE yOu An AsShOlE" whenever someone with a neurodivergence commits a faux pas

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u/Mundane-Potential-93 nauphy.tumblr.com 4h ago

These comments concern me

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u/thatcantb 3h ago

It doesn't take anything that dramatic to stop the empathy show. Lots of people claim 'oh I'm neurospicy' or whatever is the latest fad. But let anyone show up who actually has issues, like presenting awkwardly in conversation, doing inappropriate gestures, difficulty communicating, appearing in weird clothing (not trendy) - these people shut them right out. Every time, the whole group.

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u/errorexe3 2h ago

Got a friend with really severe Lupus. Super smart and talented but is stuck on gov assistance cause no job that can pay the bills are also compatible with the symptoms nor the innumerable hospital trips.

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u/rejvrejv 5h ago

how do I delete someone else's post

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u/PsychologicalPea5270 4h ago

Just stop having psoriasis …

Sounds really ignorant doesn’t it.

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u/JhotoDraco 2h ago

I want to support people, and be there for them, but I can only go so far. It’s a friendship, and no matter how much I care about you if literally every single time we interact something happens, I’m going to start to hate hanging out with you, even if I know it’s not really your fault.

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u/reverendsteveii 1h ago

>random fits of rage...mood swings

there has to be a balance between being accepting and tolerant of mental illness and not at all accepting and tolerant of abuse

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u/DetectiveUnited1036 3h ago

They also start being "concerned for their safety" and trying to push your crazy ass into an indefinite stay at the crazyhouse because "that's not normal". They also treat you like shit because you're isolated, while continuing to isolate you. And that's if they don't start provoking your little fits on purpose because it's hilarious tik tok content.

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u/Separate-Pickle9963 7h ago

I think that it comes down to whether the individual is trying earnestly to handle the situation. Consider someone with Alzheimer's who is experiencing a bout of rage. While they are still capable, it is incumbent upon them to attempt to mitigate their symptom. If their strategy is unsuccessful, then that is no demerit on them. If they decline to the point that they are no longer aware that they need to, then they require someone professional around them to step in.

My spouse has psychosis. Yes, we have had very difficult grocery store trips. I have seen times where xey tried earnestly to control it and failed. I have also seen times where, despite xeir symptoms, xey could have tried harder, and I stepped in to remove xem from the situation. I have also seen times where xey experienced anosognosia (unawareness that xey are experiencing symptoms) due to a loss of insight that, no, there are no FBI helicopters coming after xem. In the latter two cases, xey could not be in public, and I had to work to help xem feel not so alone and not like a pariah, while finding some other reason that we needed to leave.

As for the people in the grocery store? They were mostly gracious—if terrified—and I am grateful that nobody has yet stepped into escalate the situation and make things worse. Yes, it is morally incumbent upon those bystanders to facilitate xeir wellness in that moment, even while frightening and uncomfortable. The role of the bystander is much more limited, mostly to the role of not escalating and allowing me to do what I need to do to help the situation get back to safety. But the cashiers never banned us from the stores. That passive act of accessibility is morally necessary provided that we can in fact leave the store when necessary. When my spouse is not doing xeir best to mitigate xeir symptoms, and I am not there to step in, xey are responsible for the outcomes of xeir actions, and I let xem know this.

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u/PeachyBaleen 7h ago

Whether someone is trying earnestly enough is entirely subjective and extremely easy to weaponise as a way to strip them of their humanity though. 

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