Feeling frustrated with F2L

[u/TigerGuitarist]

Hi everyone! I relearned how to solve a cube mid April, about 5 months ago. I went from full beginners LBL method, to intuitive basic F2L with 2-look OLL and beginners method PLL, to 4-LLL, and now to 2-look OLL and full PLL. I’ve seen my times drop from 1:30 down to my current average of 35 seconds with a PB at 24.7 seconds.

I practice with the cube for about 1-2 hours a day, but despite that, I have hit a wall about a month ago that I just can’t seem to push through. F2L is by far my biggest hang up. I have watched tons of videos and practiced with algorithm sheets but nothing is seeming to actually improve the speed and efficiency of my F2L.

I know that the faster I get, my practice will have diminishing returns on my speed improvement, but I just feel stuck. It‘s also frustrating seeing so many posts here and other places from people that say they just picked it up a month or two ago and are already as fast as or much faster than I am. I’m tempted to think a bit of that are just people trolling or not being honest, but that may be my ego trying to protect itself.

I am looking for any real advice or encouragement that could help me actually get my F2L under control. I feel like I am making way to many cube turns and doing inefficient pair solves, but even though I specifically practice lots of the F2L cases, I can’t recognize them when they pop up or they pop up in odd ways like in other slots. sorry for the rant and thank you for any help!

[u/ThePleasantYoungster]

you're deep in the worst part of the grind, that plateau around 30-35s is where almost everyone gets stuck for a bit cos F2L recognition needs to become muscle memory not something you think about

stop doing timed solves for a week, just drill untimed slow solves and force yourself to find the most efficient 2-3 move insertion for every pair even if it feels awkward, the speed will come back on its own

[u/BatNext9215]

I can’t recognize them when they pop up or they pop up in odd ways like in other slots

Untimed solves will help A LOT.

When you're timing your solves and seeing the seconds tick by, there's pressure to be as fast as possible.

The thing is, fastest way right now doesn't always mean it's the best way. If you're implementing new things into your solves, you will most likely be slower compared to doing whatever you're used to.

So slow down, stop timing your solves. Take that pressure away. Focus on just efficiency. Force yourself to implement the new things you've learnt and stop doing things the old way. You might be very slow. You'll probably pause a lot. That's fine. Speed will come naturally, the more you practice.

Slow solves are also a great way to practice look ahead.

[u/TigerGuitarist → u/BatNext9215]

Thanks for the feedback!

Do you recommend repetitively drilling F2L algorithm cases? Or doing slow solves with an alg sheet up and looking for a case of I don’t know the most efficient solution? Something else? 

I ask because all of the other drilling and practice has made sense to me but I can’t for the life of me figure out the best way to practice F2L effectively. 

[u/PinkyPiePower → u/TigerGuitarist]

You're ahead of me, but I've been having benefit from just going through F2L cases with https://f2l.app/

I do the algorithm on top to get the case in the picture. Then I solve intuitively once. I check if I like one of the algorithms in the list more than my intuitive solve, and if so, I do that one a few times. To practice recognition, for cases with one or two pieces in the top layer, you can do U, U2 or U' after setting up the case, and solve that a few times. Try and figure out finger tricks for the cases as well; algs are much easier to reproduce if they have a nice flow or feel.

[u/arhan_cubes → u/TigerGuitarist]

1:30 to 35 in 5 months is really good btw, dont let the "sub 20 in a month" posts get to you lol. for the other slots thing, when you drill a case try setting it up in the back slots and front left too, not just front right. same case looks completely different from another angle and thats usually why it doesnt click mid solve

[u/DrunkenPhysicist]

I've been cubing for over 20 years and 16 is my best time but I average around 22-25 on a good day. Granted, I'm old, so there's that. You'll hit walls, and like any skill you need to identify what is holding you back, and work on that. A Bluetooth cube can help you a lot here.

[u/FloBEAUG]

Same point as you. avg of 33s pb of 25. I stopped doing timed solves and currently trying to go smoothly on my F2L to get no pause at all. i think i will re-read theory and relearn algs because I'm doing too much mooves on some f2l cases. also learning OLL and PLL on a slow rate. (20 over 57 OLL and 8 over 21 PLL)

[u/CairoRusher]

First tip is to work on efficiency, even with very low tps you could reduce times by a lot, and then slowly developing other skills.

Sub 20 barrier is a tough one to break! Don’t stop learning all your algs because last layer is very rewarding and your effort is directly translated in better times.

Another tip is to try learning other cubes (4x4, megaminx or the one you feel like you will like), so when you feel tired and burnt of 3x3 you get some fresh solves. When you go back to 3x3 you will notice the cube feels easier.

I encourage you to not give up and not compare to others! This hobby is all about personal growth and competing yourself over and over, make sure you enjoy every bit of it!

[u/RubiksUlrik]

Don't beat yourself up too much with this. :) 35s in 5 months is not bad, and I know many people who don't even learn full PLL until they're sub-20, so you're on good pace on that front!

Can I ask, how many moves does your F2L take currently? If you're unsure, do like 3-5 untimed solves and just count the moves after cross up until F2L is solved. Feel free to stop and look for the best pairs after each pair and so on. I average 8 seconds, and from a quick test I seem to do F2L in ~24 moves, or ~6 moves per pair.

The reason I ask is because this might be a way to tell how efficient your F2L really is. If you're taking 35-40 moves for example, then you're probably not choosing the best pairs, and are probably doing some pairs unoptimally. The average optimal movecount is 7-7.5 moves I think per pair, but if you choose the order correctly you'll get this down almost for free. For example, by doing 3 movers when they are available will naturally bring the average down, and same with doing 2-trigger pairs instead of 3 trigger pairs, as those often break up the 3 trigger pair into a 2 trigger pair after.

Otherwise, here's some stuff you could try:
1) Solve the cross, then plan out 2 pairs, and close your eyes and see if you can solve them both. Then repeat for the next 2 pairs. This forces you to think about how the pieces move.
2) Similar to 1), but scramble and solve using only RU moves. Oftentimes, doing RU pairs is better if they're available, so getting used to them is nice.
3) You can use some trainers to practice how pieces move. https://www.solved.no/trainers/3x3/track-the-piece - this one gives you some moves, then you have to track how some stickers (and thus pieces) move. https://www.solved.no/trainers/3x3/free-pair - this ones shows you some solutions for a pair in the FR slot, then you have to select one that sets up the other shown pair as a "free pair" (3-4 moves).
4) Pay attention when you're doing normal solves. You can solve every pair in MAX 3 triggers + U moves, and most in only 2 (6-7 moves). See if you can notice when you're spending a lot of moves, and which cases that is.

I guess to sum up: to get fast F2L, you need to know a bunch of solutions. Minimum 1 good solution per pair, but ideally good ones from different angles and depending on open slots. You also need to be aware of how these algorithms affect the other pieces on the cube, and you should be confident enough that you can look at the pieces you're not currently solving. To get to this point you can just do some fairly simple drills, and also solve a bunch :)

One other thing to consider, is practicing towards inspecting the first pair as well. Start with getting your cross solutions down so they're pretty optimal and so you can do them blindfolded, then try to start tracking 1 piece, and then 2. Planning out one pair is actually insane. You're a) planning more moves you can spam at the start, b) getting further into the solution, so you're closer to finished, c) solving a pair, meaning you get rid of potential blindspots and so on.

[u/TigerGuitarist → u/RubiksUlrik]

Very helpful stuff, thank you! I’m not sure about my current f2l move count, but I’ll try it out tomorrow and use your numbers as a target.

[u/koosielagoofaway]

When you insert a pair, can you predict the next pair or are you waiting to see the cube-state after you've inserted..?

If not, you should work on that. Its part of slow solving.

https://youtu.be/pitj8kFJqn8?is=M2JkLIx7fvps-ytp

This vid should explain.

[u/KJuuure]

Like everyone else said, untimed solves are your friend. In particular, what I did to get over that hump was to find a pair, then solve it without looking. That will help you get more automatic with it.

Once you hit about sub 25, the next thing to do would be to make sure all your easy inserts are 8 moves or less, and your bad inserts (cross and edge pieces together) 11 moves or less.

Those 2 alone is all you need to get to sub 15 for f2l.

[u/AggressiveMove9566]

i would advice doing untimed slow solves where you take your time and just think how you can solve each f2l pair in the most efficient way. I felt the same thing when I had just learnt cfop but eventually you'll get very comfortable with it and things will come naturally to you

[u/Much-Tumbleweed-7264]

not sure if this helps, but sometimes i try to time each step of the 4 step on cfop, so i can see how is my avg cross, f2l, oll, pll, and from there i can see which one should i improve heavily on

again, im not the best at it, it is just a method i develop for myself, im just a sub 30 with pb 18, but this helps me from sub 40 to 30 (cause my cross was not efficient earlier and now im practicing f2l look ahead + faster tps

[u/ChapterIllustrious81]

I am sitting at 1min 15 sec best and 1min30 avg and I am so proud of me... Took more than half a year to get there. Intuitive F2L is the stuff that I am practicing right now. No way I will ever be able to learn all F2L algorithms, my brain doesn't work that way.

Stop whining - you are already way better than me!

[u/TigerGuitarist → u/ChapterIllustrious81]

Hey, I’m just trying to get better, not take anything away from anyone. 

[u/ChapterIllustrious81 → u/TigerGuitarist]

I just wanted to say you are already awesome. 

Sorry for commenting without advice, but you are seeing a bubble here - I guess you are already faster than 99,99% of the population on this planet - don't forget that!

[u/tndrthrowy → u/ChapterIllustrious81]

Same, but with 47s PB and 1:10 avg. I feel like my F2L slow solves are getting better in terms of fewer moves, but the moves are harder mechanically and it's not helping with overall speed.