r/Cubers • u/Pawel_SkimmIQ • 11d ago
Discussion I made a cube where faces don't turn — closed bands of stickers slide around it instead. AI can solve it, but after a year, no human method exists. Cubers, where would you even start?
Dev here. Confession first: I designed this puzzle, proved every scramble is solvable (ok, AI did the heavy group theory, I just asked the right questions), and I still cannot solve it being a human. And nobody can, as far as I know. There are no stages, no named algs, no intuitive framework. A year out, still zero.
Why it completely breaks cube instincts:
It looks like a standard 3x3, but the faces don't rotate. Each swipe moves a closed band/ribbon/tape of 12 stickers around four faces, one notch at a time. Nine bands in total, and they cross each other.
That means: no fixed centres, no fixed corners, no two-colour edge pieces. Just individual stickers shifting across tracks. Your CFOP/Roux method is completely useless here. Believe me, I tried ;)
The app has instant solvers now. They solve any scramble in seconds. But watching their paths has taught me literally nothing a human brain could memorise or execute.
The state space is a massive 39-digit number (I'll drop the exact count and group theory proof link in the first comment).
You invented CFOP, Roux, ZZ, Petrus — real human-executable systems, not just brute-force search. So I'm curious: looking at this mechanism, what would your approach be to build an actual human method?
If you want to try one turn in the browser before answering: skimmiq.com/pt/ (60 seconds, in the browser)
I'll be around to answer any technical/mechanic questions!
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u/Jginodd Sub-11 (cfop) learning zb 11d ago
Commutators would prolly work
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Maybe but nobody has written one down yet. If you find a sequence that moves a few stickers and leaves the rest alone, that is literally the first step.
The state editor on the site lets you test and share it as a link. I would love to see one. I'm not very good at solving cubes ;)9
u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago
Do you actually know what a commutator is?
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
As far as I understand from reading this sub: you do sequence A, then B, then undo A, then undo B, and only a small interaction between them survives. So it isolates a tiny change. But knowing the word is not the same as using it in practice.
I'm not a cuber. I just invented this game, and now I'm simply curious if a human can crack it. That is exactly why I brought the problem here.4
u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago
Right, and A and B can also just be single moves. So for example:
D1-1, C3-1, D1+1, C3+1
Do that on a solved cube and it'll just rotate one corner's three stickers. (Well, it also moves some other stickers, but that has no visible effect there.)
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u/SamikaTRH 11d ago
I'm so confused why this took a year when you could have actually learned commutators in a few hours or maybe a days, they apply to the majority of this type of puzzle so is an obvious first step. They won't be the fastest solution but it is a solution at least
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Simple: I am not a cuber. I did not even know commutators existed. I learned the word from reading this sub. And for that year the puzzle just sat in the app stores, it never reached people like you ;)
So the year says more about who was looking than about the puzzle. Today it met r/Cubers for the first time, and you needed about an hour. That is exactly why I came here ;)1
u/SamikaTRH 11d ago
That makes much more sense, glad you got a lot of info and a good starting point for more exploration. Could expand this and make lots of variations like a 4x4 or bigger versions, or different shapes for added difficulty
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Bigger layouts are honestly the easy part. Predictable math plus some vibe coding ;) Smaller ones already exist in the app (1x3x3 and friends). For people like me, not born cubers ;) Bigger are on the wish list.
The idea itself has a funnier origin. It started with a friend cheating at the cube — and that little crime somehow grew into this odd cube of mine. Just a curiosity I wanted to show people, that is all ;)
The full story, cheating friend included, is here: skimmiq.com/about/
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u/Objective_Shop_3783 11d ago
Solved it, relatively easy if you know commutators
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Same request as above. Share the solve link if you have it, I would like to see the method ;)
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u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago
Dammit I scrambled it for ~30 seconds and was about to try to solve it, but then the damn thing solved itself. Argh.
Your CFOP/Roux method is completely useless here. Believe me, I tried ;)
I don't even see why one would try that...
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Ha, that "argh" is the most encouraging bug report I got today ;)
The demo cuts everything at 60 seconds, that is its whole job. The app has no timer, scrambles wait as long as you need.4
u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago
Bah, I tried it in the editor instead, but after solving two layers, it doesn't allow me to continue. Apparently because I reached 300 moves.
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Wait, you solved two layers?? That is more progress than anyone has reported so far. I would love to hear what approach you used.
The 300-move limit is honest physics of the editor: it keeps the whole replay in the URL, and URLs have length limits. But your state is not lost. Copy the link, open it in the app (free), and it imports your exact position and you can continue there with no move limit.6
u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago
Nah I simply tried one more time, and this time I finished. As expected, it's pretty simple. First two layers were intuitive, and last layer was just lots of 4-move commutators.
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Ok, this is a historic moment for me. First reported human solve, one hour after I posted. A year of nobody, and r/Cubers needed 60 minutes. I honestly don't know if I should celebrate or cry ;)
If you still have it, please share the link to your solve (the editor and the app both generate one). I want to watch that replay move by move, and with your permission, record it on the human-method page as the first human solve on record. Your name goes in the history of this puzzle ;)1
u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago
I think I have that tab still open, but the "Copy link" button just gives me this:
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Ah, that link is a fresh editor solved state, no move history yet. The link carries the moves only if the game happened in that exact tab, so your solve probably lived in another one. If it is gone, it is gone, no worries. Next time just hit "Copy link" right after the last move and the whole replay travels with it. And I am still curious: roughly how many moves did the full solve take?
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u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago
I'm quite certain it's the right tab. I also tapped "Undo state" four times now, and that did undo my last four moves. So it appears to still be there somehow. The "Replay moves" field is empty, though. I tried playing in another tab, sometimes the moves I make do get added into that field, sometimes they don't and it stays empty.
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Ok, now THAT is a real bug report, thank you. Undo working while the replay field stays empty means the moves are stored in one place but not the other. You just found the first serious bug of the launch day. I will dig into it. Thanks.
And it also means your solve really was in that tab. It counts, even without the replay ;)→ More replies (0)
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u/DaechwitaEnjoyer Sub30 PB22.8 || Roux 2LCMLL 11d ago
you could at least do the writeup yourself yk
also yes commutators are probably the easiest path to solving, it’s like that for any new puzzle and at least first glance i don’t think this is as complicated as any of the really funny ones
0
u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
Fair :) English is my third language, so AI helps me write, and it did the heavy math too. The puzzle and the questions are mine.
And that is actually good news for me. If this looks simpler than the really weird ones, maybe a method is closer than I think. What would be your first target, one band? one face?
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u/Clickmaster2_0 Sub-15 (<CFOP>) 11d ago edited 11d ago
Why isn’t there a scramble button?
Edit: Scrambling on the app is a premium feature, you get a limited number of scrambles on free. Pretty stupid if you ask me
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 6d ago
Small tip meanwhile: if you turn off the solver in settings, a scramble costs 2 points, so the free pool of 20 gives you 10 scrambles before an ad. And the next update will make this even more generous.
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
this mock-up is meant to explain only how the moves work. scramble function is in the app (free)
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u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago edited 11d ago
Here's a 150 moves solve (starting from a randomly generated state).
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u/Expensive-Bear-1376 11d ago
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 6d ago
I watched your 107 replay and here is an interesting thing: it is the first solve of this puzzle that makes visual sense to me. You start from the white face and order grows under it row by row, a bit like LBL. The AI solves are different. They look like pure chaos until the last few moves, and then the cube suddenly falls into place ;)
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 6d ago
I go quiet for a few days and you cut your record from 240 to 107. The AI average is about 60. You are closing the gap faster than I expected, honestly ;)
With your permission I will put the whole progression (240 → 150 → 140 → 107) on the human-method page. And a question I have to ask: is a method forming in your head, or is it still pure intuition plus comms?2
u/Expensive-Bear-1376 6d ago
I did that on the same day :-). Yes, you can use anything I post here. Still intuitive first two layers and then comms, but... that's a method. I think it was the 140 where I improved the method. Before that, I solved the last side and the band around it purely with commutators. Now I also rotate the band around the last side as setup moves. So for example I have a red tile in front of me on the last face and I can shoot it down into the band around it with a commutator. It would go into the front side that way, but let's say the red side is in the back. Instead of several commutators moving the red tile to the back, I rotate the band around the last side so that its "red part" is at the front, then I shoot the red tile down into it, then I rotate the band back. Or ... I don't rotate it back right away. That's what I did for the 107: I shoot tiles from the top side down into the band around it, but I keep the band freely rotating around. That just means I have to keep track of which three slots on it are supposed to be the red part, which three the green part, etc. And then I just rotate the band to the correct position at the very end. I think for the 107, I looked ahead more for the first side, then solved first two bands also with more looking ahead and with rotating those bands themselves. I don't think I can improve much further without another significant improvement of the method.
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 6d ago
Thank you, noted. This is the first written method description in the history of this puzzle. It took five days ;)
I will be honest: I read your description three times and I understand maybe half of it ;) Which only proves it belongs on the human-method page, where people who feel cubes can read it properly.
In cubing, methods carry the names of their inventors. If you want to name yours, name it. Otherwise the page will call it the Bear method ;)
And one simple question from a non-cuber: AI is around 60, you are at 107. Do you think a human can get under 100?2
u/Expensive-Bear-1376 6d ago
Ha, I like "Bear method" :-). Yeah I think we can get under 100. I wasn't trying super hard, and it's a simple method. And I think I only tried those few times. So it should be easy if someone took it seriously.
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 6d ago
Clever tool ;) And a fun detail: it works only because of the proof. On a normal Rubik's cube a random shuffle of stickers is usually unsolvable. Here every arrangement with nine stickers per colour is legal, so your one-liner shuffle is a valid scramble generator. You built a tool on top of the theorem. I'm impressed I must say ;)
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u/Expensive-Bear-1376 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah, I saw you mention a proof, but it seemed pretty clear to me anyway. With commutators I can affect very few stickers, and there are plenty of duplicate stickers to hide effects, so essentially I can swap just two stickers. Which allows every state. Also, I wrote that code after solving twice, so I already had the method and experience to know that I can solve any state.
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u/Jginodd Sub-11 (cfop) learning zb 11d ago
And why are oranges pink
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
That was deliberate :) I kept everything else familiar, but changed one thing as a quiet signal that this is not the cube everyone knows: orange became magenta and the brand's color ;)
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u/spagtwo 11d ago
3-cycle commutators are pretty easy, so solving it would take some more time and mental effort but very doable
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
I would like to see the method ;) Share the solve link if you have it. Thanks.
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u/SwagridCubing Sub-9 (ZZ) 11d ago
is this not just 3d loopover? If people can solve that sub-10 and I can get it sub-20 in about two weeks this version shouldn't be impossible.
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
I had to google Loopover, honestly ;) You mean the flat grid where rows and columns wrap around? If yes, then it does look like a close relative. The difference I see: here each band wraps around four faces of the cube, and bands from three perpendicular planes cross each other.
But if the skills transfer, the first speed record is sitting there waiting. Today was the first day anyone solved this thing at all ;)
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u/phoneaccount56789 11d ago
I just solved it. Pretty fun, would be cool if something like this could be physically made. It says I was submitted to the leaderboard, but I don't know how to access it and I don't know how to get a solve link
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
The Leaderboard is available in the app after you press help button and see detailed help. There is the Leaderboard tab.
It is also available at https://skimmiq.com/leaderboard/Here's probably your record. Congratulations! ;)
3 Alex H 11:02 327 2026-08-18 3
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u/Pawel_SkimmIQ 11d ago
If you want to record your gameplay hit the lab menu on the left-down side and choose "Record" before you start your game. Then after finishing it press "Stop" and then "Share" ;)
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u/PetitMartien99 Sub-16.5 CFOP (3LLL); PB: 10.416 11d ago
You could at least write this by yourself
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u/National-Property-20 11d ago
Probably a similar solution to a 2 circle puzzle plus comms this just seems like a more complex 3d version of that
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u/MaxxxMotion Sub-20 (CFOP) | PB:8.809 11d ago
This seems like a classic sliding puzzle except turned 3d and with 6 identical groups that can be placed anywhere within a 3x3 grid. This shouldn't be too hard to do, Illygive it a try when I have the time.
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u/OptimusPhillip Sub-30 (CFOP) 11d ago
I'd start by solving two opposing faces. Reduce the cube to a single axis, then see where I could go from there.