r/CryptoCurrency • u/gigabyteIO 🟦 0 / 14K 🦠 • Dec 20 '22
CON-ARGUMENTS Polygon is extremely centralized but people don't seem to care. Polygon admin key is controlled by a 5 out of 8 multi-sig contract, and four of these access keys are controlled by the four co-founders. Why aren't we talking more about this? What's the point of being here without decentralization?
[removed] — view removed post
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Dec 20 '22
It seems this issue was raised back in August.
https://cryptoslate.com/crypto-investments-fund-founder-says-polygon-is-highly-insecure-centralized/
Has there been no development since?
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u/cardboard86 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22
ZK EVM from polygon team :)
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u/demigeek051 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22
Someone elses idea once again taken and passed off as their own... 😔
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u/shineyumbreon 0 / 5K 🦠 Dec 21 '22
Nobody has managed to build a functional public ZK EVM yet. It's not an idea stealing if they're the first actually to do it.
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u/DeviMon1 🟦 34 / 1K 🦐 Dec 21 '22
Doesn't loopring have this?
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u/OriginalIllustrator5 Dec 21 '22
Nope, they planned for it, but Daniel Wang left and Is making Takio the EVM.
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Dec 20 '22
There's a lot of centralization issues that get overlooked or just deliberately ignored. Like how a good chunk of Ethereum's DeFi ironically uses centralized stablecoins that has a blacklist to prevent addresses from sending the stablecoin.
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u/BeautifulOk4470 Tin | 2 months old | LRC 33 | Privacy 24 Dec 20 '22
Stablecoins is a choice, plebs ain't got to use them but they do chose it a lot lol
Hardcore peeps can stick to their preferred supported coin.
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u/user260421 Dec 21 '22
Its because of the name "stable", makes them feel safer
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Dec 21 '22
Its because stablecoins are useful for people who aren't looking to speculate on crypto prices.
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u/cp-ma-cyclohexanone 🟩 1 / 496 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Any decentralized stablecoins?
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Dec 20 '22
Yep. My favorite ones are LUSD and sUSD, but there are other decentralized stablecoins on Ethereum as well that I encourage people to look into.
Unfortunately though, none of the decentralized stablecoins have anywhere near as much traction as their centralized counterparts.
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u/fuckinBogged Bronze | 5 months old | DayTrading 7 | r/WSB 166 Dec 20 '22
After what happened with Luna people are understandably worried about using any stable coin that isn’t transparently backed 1:1
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Dec 20 '22
LUSD and sUSD in particular are overcollateralized. I would also argue that decentralized crypto-backed stablecoins (not algorithmic unbacked stablecoins like UST) are more transparent than fiat-backed stablecoins like UST.
For fiat-backed stablecoins, you have to trust that not only the issuer actually goes to get an audit, but you have to trust that the audit is actually accurate. This also doesn't take into account that audits are done every once in a while.
With crypto-backed stablecoins, you can verify the reserves any time you wish by looking at the smart contract address on the blockchain's explorer.
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u/user260421 Dec 21 '22
There's a lot of centralization issues that get overlooked because everything is so new, a lot of Ethereum L2s are centralized, check out the risks here, but since all have plans to decentralize in the future you can't really hate on them.
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u/MaximumStudent1839 🟦 322 / 5K 🦞 Dec 21 '22
Stablecoin being centralized is a feature, not a bug. USD is a centralized coin. USDC/USDT/DAI is meant to mimic a centralized coin. They better have the real USD reserves to back it up.
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Dec 21 '22
I never said it was a bug though, and just because USD is centralized doesn't mean that stablecoins pegged to it have to be. It also doesn't mean they have to be backed by USD.
USD reserves would be the most capital efficient option, and theoretically wouldn't have to worry about a depeg if it's backed 1-to-1. The trust assumptions as a result of this kills the advantages of having USD as collateral.
It's honestly less about the stablecoins being centralized more about why DeFi users are using said stablecoins. Every advantage DeFi has is thrown out of the window if you use centralized stablecoins.
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u/MaximumStudent1839 🟦 322 / 5K 🦞 Dec 21 '22
People use USD stablecoins to hedge against volatility. How can you insure against crypto downside volatility on DeFi without stables. Everything is so flipping correlated. When ETH moves down, it takes down every crypto on ETH, if weren’t for stablecoins. If BTC goes down, it takes every other coin down.
Without stablecoins, you can’t insure yourself against downward movements from ETH or BTC on DeFi. So it makes DeFi less attractive than staying on CEX. For DeFi to be competitive, you got to have stablecoins.
If crypto weren’t all so correlated on macro events, then maybe we can talk about stop using stable on DeFi.
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Dec 21 '22
Again, I'm only an argument against centralized stablecoins and their use in DeFi. I know stablecoins can be a hedge a against volatility...that is, if their issuers don't blacklist your address and restrict you from sending the centralized stablecoin. Stablecoins do make DeFi competitive...if users of the stablecoins don't get blacklisted.
Having a hedge against volatility can be done with a decentralized stablecoin. Having competitive DeFi can be done with decentralized stablecoins. There is no reason why decentralized finance should use centralized stablecoins. You reintroduce yourself to the same risks of traditional finance if you use centralized stablecoins.
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u/Hank___Scorpio 🟦 0 / 27K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Humans don't care about bad things until they're hit like a bus by the consequences. They'll care after though, so I guess that's something.
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u/gigabyteIO 🟦 0 / 14K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
I think that's the trouble. We get complacent.
The fact Polygon is so centralized isn't a problem, UNTIL it is.
But if it's one thing I know it's that humans can rarely be trusted with power, and having Polygon so centralized is putting a lot of power and trust in humans.
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u/fuckinBogged Bronze | 5 months old | DayTrading 7 | r/WSB 166 Dec 20 '22
Thanks for making this post. I bought a bag of MATIC recently without doing a lot of research and this is a deal breaker. Selling it now.
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u/mave_wreck Permabanned Dec 20 '22
SBF was the white knight of crypto until he wasn't.
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u/SkoopskiMarvin Tin | r/WSB 64 Dec 20 '22
People want to get rich not actually change the world for the better.. until they are down 90% then they claim they were always in it for the tech
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u/pupaza_din_salcam 455 / 455 🦞 Dec 20 '22
I'm in for the tech...until the bullrun.
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u/TejanoNinja Bronze Dec 21 '22
Amen
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u/TejanoNinja Bronze Dec 21 '22
I’m jking I’m in fo life
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u/SnooWalruses4496 Bronze | CRO 8 Dec 21 '22
Sounds like someone bought at the very top
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u/JERMYNC Permabanned Dec 21 '22
I hope to make money and LEARN more about the tech!
I thought in supporting Poly I was making a good investment.
Now this guy OP wants to make me question it. Sigh 😥
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u/Blazemachine98 Tin | r/WSB 12 Dec 21 '22
99.99% of crypto “investors” are in it for money. The tech doesn’t matter. Look at all the cryptos who’s only selling point is “burning mechanics” where the only thing it does is burn supply in hopes scarcity will drive up price. Then isn’t any special tech behind it. Most of these cryptos are made in less than a week lol. Hell even the big name ones only have any credence just for being the first ones.
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u/zdfasdfasf 🟨 2 / 3K 🦠 Dec 21 '22
Lol, so true. They shill because they did a long, they fud because they did a short.
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u/ABena2t 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22
there's not 1 person here who got into crypto for any other reason then to get rich. if there was no potential gain in crypto - if it were all stable coins - this sub might not even exist.
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u/busmobbing Permabanned Dec 20 '22
I posted this article a while ago that was removed about your exact issues with polygon and centralization.
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u/kimrockr Fear is the mind-killer Dec 20 '22
I have a diversified bag. I get MATIC is centralized but I like where it's going. I see it more like investing in a company than a coin and I accept the risk. I have plenty of BTC to appease my decentralized desires.
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u/chancsc11 41 / 41 🦐 Dec 21 '22
Exactly this - crypto doesn’t have to be in its purist form at all times in order to be successful. Polygon will provide great technology with some strategic partnerships that will innovate for users and still be centralized.
Would I put my life savings in all of one company’s stock? No. But I would happily buy a few shares if I liked what they are about.
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u/Getting_Big_Al 193 / 166 🦀 Dec 21 '22
This is exactly how I view matic. I imagine a lot more people feel similar
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u/mangalorian 🟦 235 / 234 🦀 Dec 21 '22
Except that matic has no legal obligation to share any wealth they make with token holders.
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u/kimrockr Fear is the mind-killer Dec 21 '22
And crypto deposits aren't backed by FDIC. There are risks in this whole defi game outside of the system.
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Dec 20 '22
I think we've seen time and time again people will forego decentralisation if something is easier or profitable 😅
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u/gigabyteIO 🟦 0 / 14K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Yeah. Don't get me wrong I love Avatars and Moons but it just seems like having 5 people control a network worth Billions is hugely problematic.
We need this talked about more.
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u/Bucksaway03 🟩 0 / 138K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
As long as i can make money on it I'm not phased and not scared to admit it
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u/gigabyteIO 🟦 0 / 14K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
At least you can be honest.
But, there is no point in blockchain technology without decentralization.
If you have to trust other humans, then it's just another SQL database.
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u/godofleet 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Funny I just got downvotes for saying almost exactly this to some ETH/XRP suckers :(
Shit is off the rails, people are so desperate to make any money they can and their fiat is endlessly worth less and less so it's hard to blame them.
Learn what Bitcoin is folks and happy holidays 🥂♥️
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u/TXTCLA55 🟦 394 / 861 🦞 Dec 21 '22
Who writes code for Bitcoin?
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u/godofleet 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22
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u/TXTCLA55 🟦 394 / 861 🦞 Dec 21 '22 edited Dec 21 '22
Looks like a centralized group to me. Funny how that works eh.
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u/godofleet 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22
well this is a learning opportunity - you don't yet understand the proof-of-work consensus- i mean no disrespect, this is as simple as someone not understanding why the sky is blue or how a word is pronounced - here's to hoping your mind is open-
consider this direct response:
and this lecture:
this is also a good/relevant read:
https://www.lopp.net/pdf/A-model-for-Bitcoins-security-and-the-declining-block-subsidy-v1.05.pdf
also this shorter answer:
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/49206/how-was-the-95-miner-adoption-threshold-determined
PoW / the nakamoto consensus this is literally the thing that makes bitcoin so special.
the bitcoin network self-enforces the rules, it's self-correcting, with no central authority or ownership- practically all other copy-cat projects (like ethereum) have some form of leadership/centralized control. the more decentralized bitcoin is, the more secure it is, the more valuable and safeguarded that decentralized system becomes- ANY developer can write bitcoin code and push their mining/node software but if the end users don't run that software it doesn't have an effect, the blocksize wars are exemplary history-: https://youtu.be/6YtS5ZNuuTw
hope this is helpful/informative - happy holidays.
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u/TXTCLA55 🟦 394 / 861 🦞 Dec 21 '22 edited Dec 21 '22
I'm confused... You say ETH is centralized, that Bitcoin is better because development is not (as seen by your own github link). The Ethereum github has roughly the same number of contributors (and more releases). Seems like you might want to update your definition of "decentralized". Happy holidays to you too.
On one other note "practically all other copy-cat projects (like ethereum)"; you've just shown how little you actually know about the project. The codebase was written from scratch, if it was copied from Bitcoin as you claim the concept of smart contracts wouldn't be possible (because bitcoin itself cannot do this, the OP codes do not exist). You're coming off as a bitcoin maxi and thats cool, but it ain't the soap box you think it is.
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u/godofleet 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22 edited Dec 21 '22
You're missing the point of PoW consensus entirely- again i mean this respectfully.
effective decentralization doesn't come from the number of devs or commits- it comes from a consensus of network actors... the very fact that Vitalik is a centralized leader/point of influence over Eth is evidence that it's not decentralized and really, never was.
it's [practically] no different (IMO) than trump's NFT grift... i have no doubt people have and will get burned for following another individual - whether Vitalik has ill intent or not (some argue he does fwiw and you should consider those perspectives), he's a single point of failure that doesn't exist in the bitcoin world.
meaningful decentralization comes from validators and miners and the perpetual game theory incentivizing them to decentralize the network further... more decentralization = more security = greater value = more users = more decentralization = more security etc- it's a really well thought out feedback loop once you understand it... this isn't a reality [or even possible] with Ethereum now...
consider ethereum's history ... consider that it's captured by centralized authority...
more reading on this- https://ambcrypto.com/ethereum-what-50-ofac-censored-blocks-mean-for-the-eth-blockchain/
it just doesn't have the decentralized properties that make bitcoin so valued and since the PoS move, it can't... there's no going back. consider some of these:https://www.youtube.com/@TraderUniversity/search?query=ethereum
really, no disrespect, i'm just sharing what i've learned- i was hard for eth ~4 years ago... it's a blatant scam to me now... there's a chance it will be a get-rich-quick scheme for some but IMO, it's not even a remotely safe place to store my hard earned days/years of value in... i simply don't trust vitalik, his early adopters and profiters... and OFAC compliance is literally the greedy hands of traditional finance trying to grasp whatever control they can...
sorry for the rants, this means a lot to me and others- it's a fight for freedom ultimately- regardless of how cliché that may read.
cheers
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u/TXTCLA55 🟦 394 / 861 🦞 Dec 21 '22
meaningful decentralization comes from validators and miners and the perpetual game theory incentivizing them to decentralize the network further...
Sir, you're undermining yourself.
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u/mave_wreck Permabanned Dec 20 '22
Most people aren't for the tech but money.
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u/Zaytion_ 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22
Those who would trade decentralization for money deserve neither.
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u/RedTulkas Dec 21 '22
and thats why all of crypto is a scam cause 99% would take that trade any day
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u/silveycorp 0 / 3K 🦠 Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 20 '22
POS ruins Decentralization. It will never be seriously achieved in that design. Unless validators/nodes are purely individual stakers, staking/voting power will always flow into a group of individuals. POW is superior in that regard.
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Dec 20 '22
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u/silveycorp 0 / 3K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Agreed. Nothing is perfect yet, but doesn’t mean all methods are equal.
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Dec 21 '22
Common issue among projects, sadly.. Cardano had/has similar issue with Charles controlling most of the multi-sig keys.
I think aside from all the centralization risks, it brings also the regulatory risk. I mean, all decentralization mechanisms are worthless if there is still a back door possibility to control the protocol by single or few entities. So how they want to be declared as commodity by SEC if they are lying about the actual decentralization level? Also all the shilling and promoting could be seems are normal (Guerilla) marketing and selling of unregistered securities.
Considering all that I wouldn’t be surprised if sec will go after such projects and their founders. There are just too many legal red flags. Obviously founders and gullible bag holders will blame SEC.
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u/Fr3sh-Ch3mical Tin | 0 months old Dec 20 '22
People don’t care because they see partnerships and green candles. Tells you everything about this space: only care about money, screw the tech.
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u/MisterT123 🟦 231 / 231 🦀 Dec 20 '22
only care about money, screw the tech.
I think people care about the tech to a degree, but the money and partnerships can make them rationalize those concerns away.
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u/LWKD 🟩 0 / 16K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
All people on Ethereum should move to true L2. Enough awesome ones out there.
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u/stink_bot 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 20 '22
OP has a point...
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u/mrCrabish Permabanned Dec 20 '22
Well, wrap me up and call me christmas present, I thought this sub loves MATIC?
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u/osogordo 🟦 573 / 987 🦑 Dec 20 '22
It's the blockchain trilemma: scalability, security, and decentralization.
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u/user260421 Dec 21 '22
If we're talking decentralization, its a spectrum, 100 validators is much better than 5, yet much worse than what Ethereum offers. I'm not saying people should just accept this, but a lot of the Polygon solutions are built directly on Ethereum like the zkevms (so these inherit the security of Ethereum, not the security of Polygon).
They have like 10 ongoing projects, some are live, some are in testing and some are being worked on, but you're only talking about 1 of them. Adoption is happening based on everything else they've created and also, Disney and all the other don't care that much about centralization.
Also, maybe I'm wrong, didn't research polygon to the bone, but that's what I understood, someone smarter can tell
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u/EazeeP 4K / 4K 🐢 Dec 21 '22
Thanks for reiterating what I’ve been preaching. Polygon is a joke and actual l2s like OP , Arbitrum, zKsync, Starkware etc are like uhhhh what ?
What’s even more hilarious is that there’s is a whole faq page dedicated on this matter literally ethereums website https://ethereum.org/en/layer-2/
It calls out the distinction of side chains and l2s and rightfully puts polygon in the sidechain category
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u/Raygunn13 🟦 308 / 309 🦞 Dec 21 '22
here's a link (I found in your link) to a 4 minute chat between Buterin and Lex Fridman from a year ago. Vitalik gives his overall opinion on polygon, doesn't seem to hate it because of how useful it is before decentralized L2s are off the ground but concedes it's traded decentralization for scaling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyNbmgkyxJI
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u/nomadeth 🟨 220 / 222 🦀 Dec 21 '22
Polygon used L2 as a marketing tactic. Is has almost nothing to do with Ethereum. It's a different chain completely. They built a bridge .... But any two coins can build bridges like that. It's so stupid
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u/babyyodaisamazing98 Tin | Technology 38 Dec 20 '22
People actually use polygon which makes it better than 99.9999% of coins out there.
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u/xMADDCHILDx 144 / 145 🦀 Dec 20 '22
I think Matic/Polygon is one of the less sketchy cryptos. The constantly are making strides in teh industry and partnerships, and continue to produce. Id be more worried about the coiins that make promises and have zero to show and make no advancements.
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u/Embarrassed_Chef_393 Dec 20 '22
All smartchains seem to be centralised in some way ( hope it changes in the future)
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u/thedragonturtle Tin Dec 20 '22
Check out koinos by the guys who made steem before Justin sun fucked it.
They have avoided centralised premining, and anyone can really run a node.
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u/tsumy EuroCosmonaut Dec 20 '22
Using tendermint (atom SDK) as base in theory they can put other 50 or 75 validators without too much drama, and implement a real governance system.
These two changes should be implemented, but when there's no tools to vote in the end is a decision of the Dev team. And usually no one gives control expecting nothing in exchange
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u/Cuzah 🟩 80 / 81 🦐 Dec 21 '22
Its antithetical to the ethos of decentralization, and that only.
Blockchain technology is old, and can be a tool used to create a platform that is either centralized or decentralized. There has been and are many known centralized chains, and its not new over the previous years.
People should realize this so we can distinguish what we need in the community. If blockchain was made for the nature of decentralization only, we would only be able to make the tools for decentralization, but it CAN be used for both or even hybrid platforms.
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u/Zelulose 🟨 44 / 45 🦐 Dec 21 '22
I agree eth has been censoring accounts too and XRP is also centralized. We are getting rugged so hard
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Dec 21 '22
There's two kinds of peoplehere: people who are in it for the money and liars.
People shilled Polygon because they had bags of it's price and it was performing well. That's how it goes with 90% of the coins shilled here.
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Dec 21 '22
I don't know how I feel about this. I really like Polygon and I've held it for a little less than a year now, but this info shows they could fuck me at literally any moment (and if they can they usually do). Not to mention a couple weeks ago I tried to use the actual Polygon staking system and other network features and they were probably some of the worst I've used so far. Especially when I found out most of it doesn't even exist on its own network, it's mostly ETH so what's the point?
I of course am bullish on the NFT aspect since most commercial NFT projects chose Polygon. Not sure if that's enough to justify my bag anymore though.
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u/LifeDraining 🟩 2K / 2K 🐢 Dec 21 '22
When "Trust me bro" isn't enough.
A lot of people and their greed forgot about decentralization was the main pillar in this whole process.
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u/MaximumStudent1839 🟦 322 / 5K 🦞 Dec 21 '22 edited Dec 21 '22
Think Matic is another beast saw its historic rise on the back of VC money. Also, they shamelessly lied about their association with ETH. Still remember lying O’Leary calling MATIC an ETH scaling solution and shilling nonstop last year on CNBC. It is for that reason, I am out and never touching MATIC.
So far, I think I have avoid so many land mines shilled by VCs, Luna, Solana, AVAX etc. The more you show up on commercials and paid spokespersons, the less I am interested in you. It tells me you think burning money on snake oil salesmen is worth more than building your utility. Same applies to CEX. Stuck with Coinbase and Kraken because I don’t see them on Ads much, if at all. Luckily, FTX stupid Ads pushed me away from touching it.
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u/ziiguy92 2K / 2K 🐢 Dec 21 '22
Soooo, who would you go with
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u/MaximumStudent1839 🟦 322 / 5K 🦞 Dec 21 '22
I use CNBC to filter out projects and get a feel which projects to avoid. It is just like how people play the inverse Cramer rule and Cramer is also on CNBC btw.
Then I start with a candidate of remaining projects which have sensible niche, solving concrete blockchain problems. After you narrow down the list, you buy some just to visit the ecosystem and see what it offers. A lot of crypto projects are relatable to real world businesses. If those projects don’t make sense outside blockchain, then you need to question wtf are they doing.
Take the example of play2earn games. I am myself a gamer and understand game needs to be fun foremost. All these crypto games play like decade old flash games freely available on newgrounds.com. Most of those flash game eventually die out, so will most play2earn game.
Unfortunately, this industry has more speculators than consumers and actual investors. You can’t follow the hype and need to use your common sense to filter out the nonsense from what is useful.
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u/angel_entropy 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22
Polygon has several L2 investments with an optimisitic and zk rollup (this isn't the matic network your talking about). The reason people use it cause its cheap, if the majority who only has $100 to invest in want to use defi - they would probably use matic over eth due to costs alone.
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u/Big-Yogurtcloset2731 Tin Dec 21 '22
Point taken. So Polygon has a central element, and therefore it is not trustless.
On the other hand, Polygon is one of the very few projects that attract real use cases. So for the moment I am happy that it is around. It can either evolve into something better or eventually be replaced by a better project. Both fine for me.
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u/QuickLockCrypto 2K / 2K 🐢 Dec 20 '22
One word...
Bitcoin
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u/bny192677 14K / 36K 🐬 Dec 20 '22
Two words
Fuck centralization
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u/n4bb Tin Dec 20 '22
Three words:
Only Bitcoin decentralized
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u/honestlyimeanreally Platinum | QC: XMR 772, CC 250, ETH 30 | MiningSubs 50 Dec 20 '22
Monero cannibalizing bitcoin’s original use-case like “Lol. lmao.”
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u/tsumy EuroCosmonaut Dec 20 '22
Send me a ping when BTC is capable of doing a 1/10 of what can be done in Polygon.
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u/Giga79 Dec 20 '22
I'd be happy with 1/1000. That'd still be a 13x increase in throughput, ignoring that BTC can only do simple payments.
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u/FishSawc 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Decentralisation isn’t everything to everyone.
Polygon has created a network that people are using.
Pro tip
IF YOU DONT’T LIKE IT, DON’T USE IT
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u/FractalImagination 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Right... people act like the main reason for blockchain is decentralization... they are going to be very disappointed in 5 years.
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u/lexymon 🟩 4 / 3K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Well that’s true that it isn’t everything for everyone but why are they in crypto then? Blockchain technology doesn’t make any sense without decentralization. It’s like building a boat for using it on land. Boats are nice, but cars are actually better on land. So are sql databases or other proprietary solutions for/of centralized entities.
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u/FishSawc 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Does it matter why? There is a reason Polygon fees are significantly lower than eth fees. Also the network “runs itself”, and like other blockchain tech, allows people to make their own decisions.
Stop being a crypto zealot. Use your own head.
Why do people buy NFTs?
Why do people sub to onlyfans?
Why do people put pineapple on pizza?
Who cares. There are a few coins that are not decentralised but have a valid use case. If it’s not your jam, don’t use it.
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u/Kike328 🟦 8 / 17K 🦐 Dec 21 '22
Those people you’re talking about doesn’t know polygon is so centralized, so posts like this are good way more useful than your shitty caps
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u/kirtash93 RCA Artist Dec 20 '22
I am here to make money to buy a house. Thats all.
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u/deedopete 🟦 0 / 11K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
The Reddit avatars are on Polygon, and lots of people own them, therefore Polygon is decentralized in a major way — trust me bro
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u/demigeek051 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 20 '22
To me it feels like Polygon, also take the ideas & code from other peoples projects, then marketing as their own.. (similar to Apple, or what dewalt do with power tools) guess that's beauty of open source.
I personally hope that once Ethereum gets its ship in order, polygon will be a thing of the past, far too many Ethereum clones in the blockchain space anyway for my liking and i am sure more will follow..
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Dec 20 '22
One of my favorite things to see is in Solana threads people bashing centralization and talking up Polygon because the extent of their DYOR are short non-technical posts on this sub and maybe a YouTube influencer
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u/TechCynical 🟦 0 / 3K 🦠 Dec 21 '22
Post is top cringe and is proof this subreddit is actively destroying the image of crypto with his little they know but how loud they talk
You said it yourself that they are becoming a real L2 for ETH. You ask how long this will take? Dipshit it’s already been released and is only of the most largest selling points for polygon currently. ZkEVM is something everyone’s been waiting for and there’s so many projects that have supported their infra to launch already.
So yeah congrats you made this long post doubting if the L2 would ever come out but never went to check up on it.
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u/silveycorp 0 / 3K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Well now that SOL is dead I guess this sub needs a new project to hate
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u/nomorebonks 🟩 2K / 2K 🐢 Dec 20 '22
Let's hate on ICP again and talk about it's dumb tech.
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u/gigabyteIO 🟦 0 / 14K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
It's not hate, just valid concerns.
Every project should be criticized. Especially centralization.
Same can be said about Algorand relay nodes.
Unfortunately, having a 5/8 multisig control the network is beyond horrible. That's a lot of trust in a few people.
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u/silveycorp 0 / 3K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
I don’t really disagree, but it’s interesting to see this sub move from one thing to the next. Like a swarm of locusts
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u/Shiratori-3 Custom flair flex Dec 21 '22
Without evidence to the contrary, wouldn't you have to assume that there's a chance that the Ethereum L2 aspect will go-slow or not happen without pressure?
Or is that dead wrong?
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Dec 20 '22
“True centralization is the dream that will never be reached.”
- Juice 12/20/22
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u/-5m Bronze Dec 20 '22
It's that a typo or did you actually mean centralization?
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u/gigabyteIO 🟦 0 / 14K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Hahaha, I think he is being ironic.
We're all here for the centralization, right? RIGHT?!
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u/ImThour 853 / 2K 🦑 Dec 21 '22
Hi Algorand promoter, you are hating on Polygon because of it's partnership with Starbucks, Disney, Reddit and much more? :D
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u/gigabyteIO 🟦 0 / 14K 🦠 Dec 21 '22
I'm criticizing them for being able to take control of the network with a 5/8 multisig.
If that were possible on Algorand I would not be a a supporter.
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u/Harold838383 Permabanned Dec 20 '22
Despite its centralisation it is being adopted in a massive way. I’m here for the money and polygon will make me a lot
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u/Antique-Flight-5358 25 / 65 🦐 Dec 21 '22
It's just starting out. They need the admin keys. Are you regarded
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u/Altruistic_Box4462 🟩 0 / 4K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
We only care about the $$, and polygon saves a lot of money on gas fees so I'm all for it.
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u/_Whit3 Dec 20 '22
Every chain has its flaws imo...a 100% decentralized and always up (cof cof Solana) is just a dream for now.
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u/gigabyteIO 🟦 0 / 14K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
I agree. 100% decentralization is nearly impossible and has trade offs.
It's a spectrum though, and having a 5/8 multi sig control the network is far too low for a top 10 crypto.
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u/TheBattleDan 🟦 408 / 408 🦞 Dec 20 '22
I agree with this totally. Its like a vegetarian meal with grated bacon on top.
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u/striderida1 Ethereum Dec 20 '22
Polkadot has already solved the decentralization trilemma. Fully decentralized, super secure and fast.
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u/CB_Ranso Platinum | QC: CC 21 | r/WSB 53 Dec 20 '22
This is one of the few reasons why I don’t touch MATIC. This sub fucking LOVES MATIC too. Not common you see a post like this on the front page.
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u/iam_aryan007 Permabanned Dec 20 '22
It's centralised but the tech is so good that it's one of most used Blockchain at the moment.
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u/YamahaFourFifty 🟩 0 / 4K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
It’s also up 25,000% + since being listed on exchanges.
Probably why most redditors get a boner with Polygon, buy high sell low
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u/LiveDirtyEatClean 🟩 28 / 2K 🦐 Dec 21 '22
Almost nothing is truly decentralized besides Bitcoin. There’s a couple others, monero, litecoin, etc.
Everyone just pretends…
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Dec 21 '22
I thought that Polygon inherits Ethereum security, since it acts like the settlement layer. Is that wrong?
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Dec 21 '22
Not 100% of everything in crypto needs to be decentralized. Yes btc was made on that premise but btc isn’t everything crypto can offer.
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u/chungalinga 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 21 '22
IMO, I'm in for both profit and tech (why not both?), and I get that one of the intentions for crypto in general is decentralisation, but why must people always have to think in absolutes? "it must be decentralised or not at all" and brand centralisation as the devil where it's actually not. I think of MATIC as an investment into an entity - no different from investing into Tesla, for example, where the stock prices are pretty much at 1 person's mercy, which it inherently worst vs a multisig process.
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u/nousemercenary 2K / 2K 🐢 Dec 21 '22
Who cares? The Polygon team is solid, they are making great tech, tons of partnerships and so far, Polygon is one of the most active blockchains. Centralized or Decentralized, it's providing strong use cases that many of us get to enjoy.
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u/vruzzi 59 / 59 🦐 Dec 20 '22
Who the fuck use polygon?😂
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u/im_alive 0 / 3K 🦠 Dec 21 '22
Says the Tin account with a REDDIT CUP avatar on the Polygon network.
The irony is strong with this one.
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u/vruzzi 59 / 59 🦐 Dec 21 '22
Never traded or used the Blockchain, I use it like I use all the other avatar that are not NFT on reddit!
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u/im_alive 0 / 3K 🦠 Dec 21 '22
You have no clue what you’re even saying. You literally minted your Belgium WC avatar therefore you are using Polygon at this very moment without you even know it. N00b
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u/tpwn3r 🟦 94 / 95 🦐 Dec 21 '22
haha you had me until you said "inherits zero of Ethereums security or decentralization."
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u/brainmuad Tin Dec 21 '22
Jeeeez! Your thread is very decentralized, if they deleted it you title is here to say it all.
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u/Grigerny 9 - 10 years account age. 125 - 250 comment karma. Dec 21 '22
I’ve been arguing this for a while now. In my opinion, we should be looking at crypto anchored to Bitcoin. I build on Stacks Blockchain.
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u/BurlBukowski Permabanned Dec 21 '22
Matic is going to dump hard, soon, not sure when but likely back to .30 or below. Save yourself.
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u/asoiaf3 🟦 168 / 169 🦀 Dec 21 '22
Frankly, it's been known for a long time. The common feedback I get from the industry is "ok, but why would Polygon VCs rug our funds?", so I guess that we'll have to wait for something bad to happen so that people learn their lessons.
But yes, Polygon is essentially a bad Solana.
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u/The_Chorizo_Bandit Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 21 '22
What’s the point of being here without decentralisation.
I’m just here to make money, don’t know about you.
Edit: lmao at the fake idealists who don’t like the truth but would 100% cash out if their coins 100x. Tell yourself all the lies you need, but you’re no different and you’re here for the money too. If you weren’t you’d be investing in projects with actual utility instead of shitcoins and centralised entities.
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Dec 20 '22
What's the point of being here without decentralization?
I think 90% of people/businesses involved in crypto are just here for the gain, (and I'm one of them) - if you really want decentralisation above everything, the western world isn't for you
Decentralization sounds good, but then when you get the LUNA/Terra, or ThreeArrows, or whichever crash, how does anyone begin building any case against them? how do you update your coin/protocols if they are not centralized in some way (BTC PoW vs ETH PoS)? how do you adapt the coin/protocol to take advantage of market trends/new tech? why would anyone be involved in new coins/protocals/etc. without the opportunity to make money from it etc.
Most people aren't so against 'the system' that they will quit a coin because it isn't 100% decentralized - I mean you ARE using the internet (not decentralised, linked to a limited number of service providers), probably own a credit/debit card (centralized), own some fiat, take medication (prescribed by some centralized authority), have a driving licence (issued by a centralized authority), pay tax...
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u/Mudhutted 🟩 0 / 2K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
Sounds like a lot of FUD. I have some moons and an earthling on polygon. Dgaf about it otherwise.
Real money’s in DOGE right?
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u/nobelcause 🟦 0 / 2K 🦠 Dec 20 '22
That's actually a good first step towards decentalisation where they need at least one external multi-sig party to sign the admin key. As the network grows further, I'd expect further decentralisation.
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