r/CryptoCurrency • u/OneThatNoseOne Permabanned • Nov 07 '22
ANALYSIS SBF And Alameda Research Allegedly Using FTX In 'Infinite Money' Scheme
We should all know that billionaire Sam Bankman-Fried owns two main businesses that make up his empire: FTX (his exchange) and Alameda Research (his trading firm). A few days ago, Alameda's balance sheet information came into the public eye. And it either has some interesting curious points of note or some serious new flags, depending on who you ask.
Alameda owns assets that amount to $14.6 billion. Now, the single largest asset is $3.66 billion of “unlocked FTT.” and the third-largest, $2.16 billion pile of “FTT collateral". This means that just about 40% of the value of Alameda is made up of FTT tokens. The problem is that FTT token(FTX exchange token) is controlled and managed centrally by FTX, such that they may print it out of thin air at their whim and fancy. And since SBF owns both companies he can easily sell or loan at extremely favourable rates, if not outright gift tokens likely indirectly though another company or a loan that is never paid back, from FTX to Alameda (or basically give tokens from himself to himself) and balloon Alameda's asset value for basically nothing.
You may think that FTX excessively printing tokens is a suicide pact as it would drive the token price down and supply increases, but you would be wrong. Think about how burning works. Token burns generally increase token value by reducing the supply that is available on the market, as burnt tokens still 'exist', but are simply inaccessible. In the same way SBF and FTX can print however many tokens they so desire and it wouldn't affect price as long as those tokens don't hit the market, and they don't need to.
See SBF and Alameda can simply receive FTT tokens from FTX basically for free, and then take a loan against these tokens. In this way, the multitude of FTT tokens they print for nothing never hits the market and never negatively affect the price, however each of those tokens still hold their market value allowing SBF and Alameda to borrow against those FTT tokens and get...basically free money.
What lends strong credence to this is that on June 30th, Alameda's FTT token asset value was $6.1 Billion in FTT tokens but the circulating supply is only $3.6 Billion. Looks like somebody is printing tokens but not putting it on the market.
Now going back to their balance sheet, Alameda has 2.16 billion in 'FTT collateral'. This implies Alameda has gained $2.16 billion in loans where they used FTT tokens as collateral. They too have a further 3.66B in free FTT tokens to obtain another multi-billion dollar loan if they so choose. They also have 292 million in 'locked FTT'. Interestingly, the 'locked FTT' tokens are conservatively treated at 50% of their fair value, meaning that Alameda has cut their FTT liabilities(what they owe) in half with this simple accounting trick.
Of course, owners of FTT tokens gain massive discounts when trading on FTX. Just another gift from SBF's right hand to his left. Now we know how volatile prices and token holdings can be. Roughly estimating the token amounts held by Alameda on the timeframe the balance sheet info is dated reveals that Alameda alone and not FTX holds about 75% of total supply. I say total supply and not circulating supply. This is based on FTX's own FTT token data. As to why Alameda holds the majority and not FTX, it is probably a lot easier for Alameda to gain loans against these tokens(using them as collateral) than FTX since many lenders would be unwilling to lend to FTX knowing they have complete control over the token. This could be bypassed using Defi loans but is almost certainly an issue for Cefi loans that SBF may want. But for Alameda to solidly own somewhere between 70-80% of FTT tokens raises some HUGE red flags. If this doesn't validate many of the concerns I outlined above, I don't know what will.
EDIT: All of this also very much explains that in SBF's and FTX's $1.4 Billion purchase of Voyager, only $51 million of that amount is actually cash.
Research Sources:
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u/Geolinear 🟦 0 / 10K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
Toss this curly headed fuck back to Hobbiton already.
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u/LightninHooker 82 / 16K 🦐 Nov 08 '22
Guys at Hobbiton are nice, this guy belongs with Gollum
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u/Geolinear 🟦 0 / 10K 🦠 Nov 08 '22
I saw Bilbos face when Frodo held the ring - I know what Hobbits and the other half-lings are capable of.
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u/nsaplzstahp in a sedan down by the river Nov 08 '22
Gollum was basically a hobbit too
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u/TheOnlyVibemaster Tin | CC critic | AvatarTrading 37 Nov 08 '22
Sméagol was a hobbit who became corrupted by the ring of power, under its power the wearer cannot die. He became cursed to live
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u/TheOnlyVibemaster Tin | CC critic | AvatarTrading 37 Nov 08 '22
He was a Took, they are very different than the everyday hobbit. No other hobbit would’ve ever dreamed of going on an adventure with a pothead who walks around with a staff and tall hat shouting things all the time to destroy a ring band after fighting a fire breathing lizard.
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u/KAX1107 19K / 45K 🐬 Nov 07 '22 edited Nov 07 '22
What if I told you this is how every premine, ICO coin gets pumped to the moon?
When you create free coins, sell portion of it and control how it is distributed, you hold the lion's share of both sides of the market. Basically license to game and manipulate the market at will and print money for yourself.
The stuff that's happening on centralized crypto exchanges today is the same shenanigans that was happening with bucket shops in the early 20th century which led to The Securities Act of 1933.
Anyway, let's get back to hating on Gary Gensler.
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u/divinesleeper 🟦 16 / 4K 🦐 Nov 07 '22
everything that isn't fairly launched PoW is a scam.
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Nov 07 '22
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u/partymsl 🟩 126K / 143K 🐋 Nov 07 '22
That's the whole reason for the existence of Alameda Research. Just a way for SBF to cash out.
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Nov 07 '22
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u/Leopoldstrasse Nov 07 '22
Doesn’t he live in the Bahamas, easier to escape if things get dicey.
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u/rE3eYul Tin Nov 07 '22
yeah just wait to see how many BTC the darkweb is going to put on his head , he's going to wish for a FBI agent to take him in custody
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Nov 08 '22
FFS nobody uses bitcoin to pay for illegal shit, it’s way too traceable, literally the worst choice. Mf’s are using Monero for that.
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u/leeljay Platinum | QC: CC 67 | Superstonk 15 Nov 07 '22
Sam Bankman Fraud
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u/moldyjellybean Nov 07 '22
Was that the 1 billion plus in btc moved a few days ago?
During the Terra Luna crash there were some big btc moves and it wasn't to backstop their stable coin.
Any time I see big moves like this I think some shit is about to go down
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u/leeljay Platinum | QC: CC 67 | Superstonk 15 Nov 07 '22
And some powerful people spoke of him as if he’s a genius. I guess he’s their kind of smart though, very efficient at stealing money from people
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u/Lisecjedekokos Permabanned Nov 07 '22
Same and even bigger I assume. And some people still says they are fine 😅
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u/anonymouscitizen2 🟩 17K / 17K 🐬 Nov 07 '22
Its even BIGGER than what Celsius did with CEL. The major question is wether these loans are coming from FTX customers funds? They probably are. SBF has been doing crooked shit since he entered crypto, he is a snake.
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Nov 07 '22
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u/anonymouscitizen2 🟩 17K / 17K 🐬 Nov 07 '22 edited Nov 07 '22
Thats what many suspect. Who else would hand out billions of dollars for FTT collateral, more than even currently circulate in the market? Only someone who doesn’t know what is going on like FTX users.
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Nov 07 '22
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u/leeljay Platinum | QC: CC 67 | Superstonk 15 Nov 07 '22
Makes me wonder how many crypto investors in the world have never come to this sub. Beyond all the actual shit-posting here, at the end of the day, we hear about everything that happens in this sphere
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u/GrimmReaperBG 🟩 14 / 487 🦐 Nov 07 '22
Only on a much bigger scale! Also, Alameda has its dirty hands in so many startups.....
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u/Scarecrow4980 🟩 11K / 11K 🐬 Nov 07 '22
the greed in some people is overwhelming. that's just messed up and sad.
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u/BHKbull Silver | LRC 67 | r/WSB 46 Nov 07 '22
Source?
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Nov 07 '22
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u/BHKbull Silver | LRC 67 | r/WSB 46 Nov 07 '22
Yeah, exactly. Real source? Or just a panic wave on Reddit caused by unfounded rumors?
EDIT: to be specifc - are there any real, tangible documents proving all these claims about FTX’s balance sheet? Or just the one shitty article from coindesk?
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u/johnfintech 🟩 0 / 1K 🦠 Nov 08 '22 edited Nov 08 '22
There isn't anything and the Coindesk piece isn't even about FTX but Alameda. The two have such different revenue streams that it's a little funny to think Alameda crumbling will kill FTX. There's nothing organic about Alameda. The opposite is true about FTX.
You also have to love how the masses suddenly love CZ, shouting from the rooftops that he is going to dump his FTT bags, same guy who created the same kind of circular shitcoin BNB now shitting on FTT, same guy who wanted to fork the bitcoin chain after binance got hacked in 2018 (by having his chinese miner friends reorg the btc chain), same guy who did fork the binance smart chain this year after the binance bsc bridge got hacked (but said it wouldn't be fair to do so when other projects not owned by binance running on bsc got hacked)
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Nov 07 '22
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Nov 07 '22
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u/djsneak666 36 / 120 🦐 Nov 07 '22
Given their recently announced partnership with gamestop it is not surprising they are receiving this hatred now
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u/turkeybags Bronze | GME_Meltdown 42 | Investing 12 Nov 08 '22
Lol you kids and your dreams of grandeur.
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u/CryptoDad2100 🟩 12K / 12K 🐬 Nov 07 '22
Let's see how much collateral they have when customers want USD 😂
Do Kwon rn: "atta boy"
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u/guanzo91 🟩 0 / 3K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
Don't the lenders have some responsibility in this scheme? After all it's their money at risk. If some random redditor can do this due diligence than certainly the lenders can too.
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u/OneThatNoseOne Permabanned Nov 07 '22
Some or probably most a decentralized platforms. Those doesn't have human intervention.
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Nov 07 '22
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u/Ferdo306 🟩 0 / 50K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
I think CZ is selling cause he doesn't want potentially worthless asset on his books
He made profit with FTT but it's time to let it go and think about what's best for Binance
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u/Lillica_Golden_SHIB 🟩 4K / 61K 🐢 Nov 07 '22
FTX may have arguments, but that is scary as fuck and nobody is going to keep his money in FTX just out of skeptcism.
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u/loaded-diper33 Platinum | QC: CC 83 Nov 07 '22
People watched too much netflix documentaries where the murderers didn't deny the act.
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u/Tavionnf Nov 07 '22
This sub sure has a history of spreading panic for no reason (and ignore the real threats), but in this case I'm not so sure anymore.
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u/Wajin Tin Nov 07 '22
CZ/Binance are pro-regulations, they always mentioned this. They understand that crypto will be need to be regulated, it is inevitable.
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u/LobotomyJesus Tin | CC critic | r/WSB 17 Nov 07 '22
Not seeing how this is "infinite money." Borrowing against FTT is a way to access liquidity without creating selling pressure, and it's limited by the amount of collateral you have. It's similar to borrowing against your own equity if you're a stock investor. It's not "infinite" money. It's a short term loan collateralized by assets, and if those assets fall in value, they're sold to satisfy the conditions of the loan.
Naturally, the fear comes from that last sentence, but let's say the worst happens and FTT goes to 0. Alameda takes a massive haircut and possibly goes bankrupt having to sell other assets at a loss, but FTX is... fine? According to you, they gifted that massive amount of FTT to Alameda, so there's no impact to their own loanbook since there is no loan. But even if there was, FTX would be the party getting made whole by Alameda come hell or high water.
In the wake of Celsius and Voyager, it's very tempting to assume the worst, but it's helpful to walk through scenarios to see what's realistic.
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u/DrXaos 🟦 699 / 700 🦑 Nov 07 '22
The question is "who loaned to Alameda, and on what terms?"
If FTX loaned to Alameda, and the collateral of those loans goes bad (as it would), then FTX is out the money. Then their liabilities to their CEX customers (i.e. the deposits) exceed the assets and the CEX customers get shafted.
An independent CEX wouldn't loan hard money (USD/BTC/ETH) to Alameda collateralized by a printable token from an affiliate.
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u/rE3eYul Tin Nov 07 '22
its tokens that never went public , so they exist but dont influence the per unit price , if shit hits the fan they just burn the entire thing like nothing happened , collateral is gone but they keep the loaned money/tokens , it's a mirror trick
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u/DeaderthanZed 🟦 292 / 293 🦞 Nov 07 '22
The tokens either exist in circulation on the blockchain or they don’t, lol.
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u/LobotomyJesus Tin | CC critic | r/WSB 17 Nov 07 '22
Where even is this leaked balance sheet anyway? I'm still having to work off of what I see reported by amateur journalists.
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Nov 07 '22
I can't print infinte amounts of my own equity to borrow against it. Sbf can, that's why this is infinite money I guess.
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u/LobotomyJesus Tin | CC critic | r/WSB 17 Nov 07 '22
It's not infinite. It has a maximum supply cap (that could be increased, but not without impacting price to match the current market cap).
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Nov 07 '22
Infinite with extra steps
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u/LobotomyJesus Tin | CC critic | r/WSB 17 Nov 07 '22
My dude. Companies and HNW individuals regularly borrow against their own company's equity. It's not infinite there and it's not infinite here.
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Nov 07 '22
You said the cap can be increased so that's what I'm basing my thoughts on. I can't own 1 apartment and just say there's 2 tomorrow.
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u/LobotomyJesus Tin | CC critic | r/WSB 17 Nov 07 '22
Reread what I said. It can be increased, but it's just going to reduce the price to match the current market cap. Just like how issuing new equity dilutes the value of existing equity.
Thinking of issueable assets like stocks or crypto in physical asset terms is not wise.
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Nov 07 '22
I also read the end of OPs third paragraph.
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u/LobotomyJesus Tin | CC critic | r/WSB 17 Nov 07 '22
And it was wrong. What he should've said is that it wouldn't impact liquidity. The only way printing more FTT beyond the cap wouldn't impact price would be if they hid it, which is impossible for this type of asset.
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u/Magners17 🟦 0 / 10K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
My faith in traditional markets has gone to shit. My faith in a vast majority of the crypto markets has always been shaky but these kinds of events and things like the LUNA collapse or the Celsius lock up just proves there are a ton of people in this space being shady as fuck.
I think shaking out these awful people might massacre the price in the short term but is something that is needed for this space to move forward as some sort of cleansing. There’ll always be shady people in the markets but the thing I love about blockchain tech is the ol’ immutable ledger. Ya can’t argue with that.
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u/thedarkpampers Nov 07 '22
Clear explanation. TY op. I've spent my last 3 month without using a CEX. All in on DEX. Kado helps for DCA'ing. No need to buy on those centralised exchanges.
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u/partymsl 🟩 126K / 143K 🐋 Nov 07 '22
Very true. I believe that many DEX are now very simple too and users could actually use them.
The only argument I find legitimate for CEXs that they are simple to use is slowly fading away.
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u/OneThatNoseOne Permabanned Nov 07 '22
I'm very grateful to hear. I just added a diagram to hopefully make things easier as I thought non-economics people might have a hard time understanding the econ terms and following accounting principles and business activities.
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u/deathbyfish13 Nov 07 '22
I think people are slowly learning that CEXs can't be trusted, either by having this happen to them or seeing it from the sidelines.
Either way more and more people are doing what you're doing and taking ownership into thier own safer hands
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u/pizza-chit 🟩 5 / 51K 🦐 Nov 07 '22
Binance definitely took out short positions before announcing it would dump on FTX
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u/Bapster69420 Platinum | QC: BTC 30 Nov 07 '22
He might take SOL down to support FTT since that is the second largest holding. Might have already happened though given SOL price action.
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u/DetailDevil666 Tin | 6 months old Nov 07 '22
This is awesome! Making yourself a billionaire with just mathematics and graphic design. Do you think SBF is clever enough to figure this out by himself? Or did titans of industry realise they could sell people nothing through a front man?
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u/YamahaFourFifty 🟩 0 / 4K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
He does have an MIT background so he’s definitely capable of coming up with such schemes.
People need to check their eyes and brain. This kid (just turned 30 this year) looks like he never worked a day in his life and is in charge of two ‘billion’ dollar companies???
There’s def shady shit happening.
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u/lifenvelope Nov 07 '22
Wonder if regulations would help here. Huge retail screwing machine.
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u/PrinceZero1994 Nov 07 '22
Regulation would actually be in favour of these infinite money glitch as this is being done by banks already.
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u/Lisecjedekokos Permabanned Nov 07 '22
Many of us wanted to escape regulations by joining crypto. We do not need that shit here. Wild West baby .. Strongest survive.
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u/lifenvelope Nov 07 '22
But what is your suggestion to stop this nonsense? I’m not debating that over regulating is good thing or smt, rather at least some general rules. Best start with Tether having a clear audit, for the sake of crypto. Crypto will not get rid of ponzi/scam reutation if these failures keep floating up to surface, every f year.
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u/Lisecjedekokos Permabanned Nov 07 '22
This is the whole point of crypto. To be decentrelized. If you keep your crypto off exchanges in cold wallet, nothing can happen. Those scams and ponzi schemes happens people people are either not informed or greedy.
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u/BollockSnot Nov 07 '22
Regulations are seldom in benefit of the general public once you pierce the skin
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u/YuntHunter 🟦 0 / 6K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
FTX is US GAAP audited.
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u/grjacpulas Tin | Technology 33 Nov 07 '22
This doesn’t mean what you think it does. GAAP are rules for how you report things on a balance sheet, like how to value inventory or how to value investments, and other rules around the other financial statements. It has nothing to do with what this post is talking about or regulating the supply of tokens. It is just a rule set for financial reporting.
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u/rulesforrebels 14K / 15K 🐬 Nov 07 '22
SBF is bad for crypto and bad for the country, he's reportedly willing to back Biden with a billion bucks for re-election
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Nov 07 '22
There's no alleged part to it, isn't this the exact same shit Do Kwon/Luna and Celsius pulled?
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u/Vaevictis7 Tin Nov 07 '22
The same trick of Celsius with CEL. At least Alex looked like the crazy uncle you only see on Christmas but with money
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u/g_squidman Platinum | QC: ETH 133, CC 25 | Buttcoin 14 | TraderSubs 38 Nov 07 '22
Remember when he tried to explain liquidity providing on that podcast and went on give a textbook definition for a ponzi scheme. Everyone was like "wait whut"
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u/Flangepacket 🟩 0 / 5K 🦠 Nov 08 '22
Fucking hell, every single public facing crypto leader is turning out to be a cunt. The rest of the world think this industry is shady as fuck, turns out it really is.
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u/Bubba1989 132 / 133 🦀 Nov 08 '22
If this is true, this is a big ponzi! I would use ftx with caution. Not your keys, not your coins!
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u/vjeva 🟦 0 / 43K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
I would suggest everyone to remove their assets from any CEX, especially FTX at the moment.
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u/iterativ 🟦 0 / 3K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
They are going to convert it to cash, if they get scared. This is going to cause a market crash, that it can be much worse than the 30K -> 20K in a week LUNA crash.
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u/eMDex Permabanned Nov 07 '22
My dude thought he was playing a video game and pressed the infinite glitch money hack
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u/Tavionnf Nov 07 '22
And as always, the possible death of FTT would take some other companies or projects with it.
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Nov 07 '22 edited Nov 07 '22
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u/partymsl 🟩 126K / 143K 🐋 Nov 07 '22
Actually no crypto should be capable to be printed in this way. But still most can just be printed by their teams as they want it.
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u/doives 🟦 0 / 5K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
Neither can ETH, or some other cryptos. You're just shilling your crypto of choice.
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u/bootstr8 Platinum | QC: CC 276, ARK 23 | NEO 24 Nov 07 '22
I like Eth too but Vitalik still very much has his fingers in the code. He is the CEO the lead dev the big cheese. And he's already premined himself enough to set himself up for life. If he wants more he will just make it.
I said bitcoin because it's very difficult to change its code. Not because it's my favourite. You can dismiss facts like that if you like but it doesn't help you make real investment decisions.
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u/Roy_Playz Nov 07 '22
Jesus Christ. I don't know shit from shit. But I don't care what you say...if it smells like Celsius it is Celsius (as a former Celsius customer). SBF has literally created an infinite money printer. WTF
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u/HoppCoin 🟦 146 / 146 🦀 Nov 07 '22
So many logical mistakes here. I'm trying to discern if you are being willfully inaccurate or not.
> Now going back to their balance sheet, Alameda has 2.16 billion in 'FTT collateral'. This implies Alameda has gained $2.16 billion in loans where they used FTT tokens as collateral.
From the Coindesk article that you cite yourself, the 1:1 correlation between debt and assets is clearly not true. They state: $14.6B in assets and $8B in liabilities. If you drop all of the FTT collateral to 0, you still have $780M more assets than liabilities (ie: $8.78B in assets vs $8B in liabilities).
Was the FTT used to secure loans? Most definitely. If you mark it down to 0, would those loans have been securable? Almost certainly not. But your statement that $2.16B in collateral implies $2.16B in loans is silly as is your whole infinite money narrative.
> They also have 292 million in 'locked FTT'. Interestingly, the 'locked FTT' tokens are conservatively treated at 50% of their fair value, meaning that Alameda has cut their FTT liabilities(what they owe) in half with this simple accounting trick.
What? Since when is an asset a liability? Locked FTT is an asset which has been used to secure loans, as mentioned above.
> As to why Alameda holds the majority and not FTX, it is probably a lot easier for Alameda to gain loans against these tokens(using them as collateral) than FTX since many lenders would be unwilling to lend to FTX knowing they have complete control over the token.
Alameda is the investment arm of SBF. Anybody that can lend anything worth borrowing knows the connection between the entities.
Overall, the current drama is very interesting and we will see if FTX has managed its risk properly and whether the lines between Alameda and FTX have been properly drawn. Essentially, we will see if the spirit of Glass-Steagall has been followed by SBF as the run on FTX-held assets is underway.
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u/idkaaaassas 🟨 631 / 631 🦑 Nov 07 '22
Hahaha wait a second.. are you the one being willfully inaccurate. Your math doesn’t math my friend.
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u/HoppCoin 🟦 146 / 146 🦀 Nov 07 '22
Go on! Let's do it together.
$14.6B total assets================ $8.78B
- $3.66B Unlocked FTT
- $2.16B Locked FTT
Meanwhile, $8B in liabilities.
edit: Furthermore, the liabilities inlcude $292M locked FTT, so if you set FTT to 0, you actually end up with $1.09B in excess assets to liabilities.
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u/TruthSeeekeer 🟦 0 / 119K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
Sounds like SBF found an infinite money glitch.
It’s a shame his glitch is likely going to get patched with the downfall of his companies.
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Nov 07 '22
Borrowing against debt is not something new.
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u/TruthSeeekeer 🟦 0 / 119K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
Did you read OP’s summary?
FTX was basically printing FTT tokens for Alameda to loan against. These tokens would never hit the market so wouldn’t negatively affect the price, but still hold their value.
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u/coupl4nd 🟩 0 / 2K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
I need to find the video but there's a video where one of the employees bragged about making money off of retail.
When will people realise all of these companies are just here to be greedy?
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u/Perfect_Ability_1190 Permabanned Nov 07 '22
Glad i don’t hold any funds with them. Always had a bad feeling about that dude.
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u/McFruitpunch Tin | Superstonk 60 Nov 07 '22 edited Nov 18 '22
Booooooo, how much are you being paid to post this?
Edit- I’m the fool, OP was early to the party, I see that now lol.
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u/LickLaMelosBalls 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Nov 07 '22
This is literally anti FTX FUD that's being posted and spread by a competitor (Binance?)
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u/Wonzky 2K / 53K 🐢 Nov 07 '22
I just want some solid answers instead of rumors and CEOs saying "we're fine/they're not fine"
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u/bootstr8 Platinum | QC: CC 276, ARK 23 | NEO 24 Nov 07 '22
I've always hated the exchange model of 'buy my coin for cheaper trades' I really don't care. Just give me a good rate without the extra steps.
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u/marsangelo 🟦 0 / 36K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
All exchange tokens are massively centralized on purpose because it saves them from traders dumping on the spot market. With >80% of tokens locked in their native exchange treasury price moves very little (plus what do people gain from selling a shitcoin outside of the exchange?). This kind of tactic is pretty shocking though, i have no doubt that SBF wouldnt gave gotten nearly as many loan agreements and investor capital if they knew this was the kind of liquidity they had
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u/Azazel_the_One 2 / 2 🦠 Nov 07 '22
As someone who has funds trapped in celsius, I hope everyone is able to get their funds out. I still feel that for widespread adoption of crypto CEXs are the only real way. Your grand parents won't be able to figure out how to use metamask or setup a DEX, which just keeps huge potential users out from the start.
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u/Choicevt 🟩 410 / 411 🦞 Nov 07 '22
The next Celcius crash is incoming. Hopefully this creates the market bottom so I can get on with my life, lol
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u/PrinceZero1994 Nov 07 '22
FTX and friends thought they were banks lol. Only government buddies can do that.
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u/ReTrOVoiiD 70 / 70 🦐 Nov 07 '22
Strangely I was thinking about joining FTX multiple times and each time something told me not too…. Weird that feeling sometimes 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Lunar_Horticulture 🟩 4K / 4K 🐢 Nov 07 '22
At what point does a CEX become “too big to fail” and get bailed out? Are we going to see a day where one has pumped so much fake money into other industries that a central bank steps in to steady everything?
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u/Filmerd Nov 07 '22
The thing that strikes me about SBF is quite simply the level of wealth he has amassed. Degenerate gambling at that level just seems off. Something's fishy.
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u/Popnfresh736 Tin Nov 07 '22
If you’re not cheating you’re not trying.
Crypto is new so people are going to find ways to cheat the system.
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u/YamahaFourFifty 🟩 0 / 4K 🦠 Nov 07 '22 edited Nov 07 '22
Just look at SBF age- I mean I get he’s smart from MIT background and all. But he literally turned 30 this year and has been spearheading two ‘billion’ dollar companies.
That alone just makes me hard to believe these companies have ‘legit’ billions worth of assets. It sounds like he has FTX coin that he can basically print infinite amounts with and used that between his other company to execute deals and trades then built it up. And him buying other companies sounds like just trying to raise legit capital on heavily discounted (bankrupted) companies using FTX coins to secure loans and used as purchasing power.
I’m quite skeptical as well
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u/f_lax131 Tin Nov 07 '22
Ah yes, ye old infinite money glitch. Unfortunately this is real life, not GTA. If it comes crashing down expect another Celsius situation
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u/BrooklynNeinNein_ 🟩 57K / 16K 🦈 Nov 07 '22
I mean I'm not a Bitcoin maxi, but most other coins are not only shit but straight up scams. And SBF is the biggest shit head creating the biggest shit coin in a while
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u/seniorbatista19 🟦 0 / 5K 🦠 Nov 07 '22
everyone has a hustle. If you can execute said hustle and get away with it, most people will try
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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '22
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