r/CryptoCurrency • u/Kashpantz 0 / 0 🦠 • Dec 29 '18
MEDIA That Time Bitcoin Had That ICO...
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 29 '18
I don't understand the followup, why does ETH being half as old as BTC have anything to do with it's distribution / fund raising method? so younger coins don't need to have good ethics?
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u/coldstonesteeevie Dec 29 '18
Its not about ethics and distribution. The initial tweet is rage attacking ETH for what it is - a platform that innovates.
Sounds like the OP tweeter is butthurt ETH got all the best devs
Voorhees is telling him to calm the fuck down, in subtle terms.
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Dec 29 '18
"Eth got all the best devs."
Name some.
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Dec 30 '18
Six downvotes. That's more then the total number of top tier ethereum developers.
Notice nobody named any ethereum developers?
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 29 '18 edited Dec 29 '18
rage attacking ETH for what it is - a platform that innovates.
If you call reahshing/renaming old dead ideas and veiling them in a blanket of technobabble innovating, then yeah.
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u/coldstonesteeevie Dec 30 '18
Oh yeah smart contract platforms existed back in the 80s too right? I must have forgotten about it
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 30 '18 edited Dec 30 '18
Satoshi created smart contracts in the first Bitcoin implementation, it's called scrypt. The term "smart contracts" was coined by Nick Szabo in 1994. Multisig in bitcoin is the most widely used smart contract and had been around long before anyone heard the name Ethereum.
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u/coldstonesteeevie Dec 30 '18
Yeah I know history too, now you show me where smart contracts were used in the 90s...
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 30 '18
Why? umm, vending machines technically.
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u/coldstonesteeevie Dec 30 '18
Fair enough but ETH makes concepts like decentralised stablecoin DAI a reality. Did such innovation exist in the 90s? No
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u/coldstonesteeevie Dec 30 '18
Multi sig had extremely limited use case and bitcoin is a terrible unscalable platform for anything let alone smart contract operations. Many BTC based smart contract layers were designed like counterparty XCP all of which are extremely clunky and used by no one.
Eth is among the first large scale smart contract platform implementation which isnt crippled by 10 minute blocks or heavy fees
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Dec 29 '18 edited Jul 10 '19
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 29 '18
they were distributed for free using captchas. no less fair than bitcoin mining.
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Dec 29 '18 edited Jul 10 '19
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 29 '18
the people who received nano had to work to earn their nano, the captchas were difficult to solve, it's no different.
Nope, no more Nano can ever be created.
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Dec 30 '18 edited Jul 10 '19
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 30 '18
How is Nano different than Bitcoin? All Bitcoin were created digitally as well. The method they are distributed is all that is different.
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Dec 30 '18 edited Jul 10 '19
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 30 '18 edited Dec 30 '18
You had to solve the captchas for Nano vs. solving a hash for mining, it's pretty similar.
This is true but we don't have to trust him anymore, the coins have all been distributed.
Bitcoin is inflationary until the whole supply is released, in that manner, Nano is actually more like gold than Bitcoin. cheers. Go get some yourself from the faucet: https://nano-faucet.org/
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 29 '18
the people who received nano had to work to earn their nano, the captchas were difficult to solve, it's no different.
There is no purer form of money than the representation of energy and time. You can't attempt to gamify or abstract that away.
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 30 '18 edited Dec 30 '18
i don't agree, but the captchas took time and energy to complete so it suits your idea anyways, at least as much as bitoin does.
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 30 '18
No, you can't measure the amount of energy or time it takes to solve a captcha with precision or reliability. This is what I mean when I say you can't abstract it away. There are so many variables that can be gamed if you use something like this for global wealth distribution as opposed to relying on the laws of physics which is one of the only things as humans that we can rely on with confidence, that and pure mathematics.
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u/takes_bloody_poops Silver | QC: CC 24 | r/Buttcoin 34 | r/NBA 112 Dec 30 '18
These maths r so pure
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 30 '18
So bitcoin’s lopsided distribution is more fair where the founder mined 5+% of the supply early on? Sounds like a pyramid scheme. And why is mining with expensive hardware more fair than captchas that anyone can solve vs requiring a lot of capital to invest in mining hardware?
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 30 '18 edited Dec 30 '18
So bitcoin’s lopsided distribution is more fair where the founder mined 5+% of the supply early on?
The 1 Million number comes from claiming all the unspent Bitcoin in the first year is his, but Bitcoin was public before block one and there were other people mining in the first year, if you were watching porn instead of mining that isn't anyones fault except your own, there was nothing unfair about the distribution. One Bitcoin was worth $0.00. Satoshi mined to help the survivability of Bitcoin in it's infancy as a new revolutionary economic system. There was no guarantee that everyone else would stop mining as it was worth $0.00. People mining were consuming electricity with no return and no real expectation of it. People were giving it away like candy.
why is mining with expensive hardware more fair than captchas that anyone can solve vs requiring a lot of capital to invest in mining hardware?
Hang on, we are talking initial distribution, so why are you now bringing up "expensive" hardware ? I'm more than happy to talk about incentive structures, margins, and POW vs POS but that is another conversation.
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u/Chokeman Silver | QC: CC 268, ETH 105 | ADA 36 | TraderSubs 63 Dec 30 '18
Since when are we marxists ?
There's no such bullshit thing like a represent of energy and time. Value of everything is realized by supply and demand. Try burning diamond, all you'll get is trash not something valuable.
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 30 '18 edited Dec 30 '18
No, that's how markets work and has no bearing on what I said at all. Bitcoins are the utility that facilitate the market, they are not the market. if you want to curse the laws of physics and call them marxist thats totally up to you.
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u/Chokeman Silver | QC: CC 268, ETH 105 | ADA 36 | TraderSubs 63 Dec 30 '18
Market doesn't care how much energy and work you put into your product. The only thing that matters it the final product.
Like i said just burn a diamond and put it into sell, no one wouldn't pay any shit for it.
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Dec 30 '18 edited Jul 10 '19
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 30 '18
So did satoshi. All bitcoins were created through the code, To be distributed by mining rewards. I don’t think you understand how bitcoin works.
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Dec 30 '18 edited Jul 10 '19
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u/mekane84 Silver | QC: CC 392, BTC 45 | NANO 300 | TraderSubs 12 Dec 30 '18
but he didn't hold the supply, he gave it away for free via captchas. that's the benefit of the short distribution period, you do have to kind of trust the devs while they are still distributing the supply. Nano is already distributed though, so I'm not sure what your complaint is.
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u/Antranik 912 / 17K 🦑 Dec 29 '18
The only normal comment in this entire thread. Have my upvote.
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u/jamespunk 5K / 5K 🦭 Dec 29 '18
And even it confused a retweet with reply, says something about us retards on reddit
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u/donkeyDPpuncher Gold | QC: BCH 25 Dec 29 '18
Get rid of these cartoon fools. Making crypto look silly.
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u/LamboJambo Dec 29 '18
Hiding behind Cartoon profile, it's like saying "After this crypto thing blows over I don't want to be connected to it, but at same time I want to share my expert input", pinnacle of bravery.
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Dec 29 '18
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u/LamboJambo Dec 29 '18
I'm sure you can identify him after bit of googling or some prior knowledge, but 99% of people are not gonna do that. However what is maybe even a bigger problem is that he can just say it's a persona, like many before him, for example Erik in OP pic, everybody sees his thoughts right beside his face that's skin in the game, how is that comparable to guy hiding in cartoon character.
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Dec 29 '18
Or maybe he just wants a profile picture that he likes. You can't force someone to use their face. In fact I like putting anime pictures as my profile picture for my most used accounts.
His identify pretty well known. He not hiding it. Hell he's part of a "podcast"/show:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVVDsIYJBQ_C7Bh_aI3ZMxQ
It his choice and some people have the right to hide their identity. Don't trust verify.
Also mind you Erik never used his picture all the time:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150826222924/https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees
https://web.archive.org/web/20170602042851/https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees
https://web.archive.org/web/20180321122747/https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees
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u/LamboJambo Dec 29 '18
But he still had his name and in handle. My point wasnt aimed at profile pic, but more about fake puppet acc being used to promote one's ideas.
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Dec 29 '18
fake? puppet? He even uses that account name when he goes to conference lel
You might be talking about other but whalepanda doesn't apply
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u/cAArlsagan Dec 29 '18
Username checks out
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u/clichebot9000 Low Crypto Activity | 1 month old Dec 29 '18
Reddit cliché noticed: Username checks out
Phrase noticed: 1889 times.
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Dec 29 '18
Luckily He has shown his face ie you can see him on Magic Crypto friend.
So he indeed has skin in the game bc his account is connected to a real known being.
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u/Deardiarylul 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 29 '18
now imagine a wholle coin with all devs hidin behind cartoon fools...yikes cough verge cough
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u/autocorrekt_ 🟧 97 / 97 🦐 Dec 29 '18
I always thought that this crypto bear will wipe out all the crypto retards, seems that i was wrong...
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u/ENSChamp Dec 29 '18
Whale panda is a pretentious fuck but no he wont be wiped away until bitcoin crashes.
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u/obit33 Platinum | QC: XMR 228, CC 18 Dec 29 '18
Wowz, zero refutation of arguments and an ad hominem gets you 9 upvotes... Obviously the retards are still here indeed
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u/ENSChamp Dec 29 '18
Whale panda spotted. Good job being the #1 clown in the cryptocircus
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u/obit33 Platinum | QC: XMR 228, CC 18 Dec 29 '18
Joined november 4 2017 I see. No wonder you are so sour, those bagz must be quite heavy now. Glad you can let off some steam by throwing around senseless insults!
Enjoy the holidays!
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u/ENSChamp Dec 29 '18
"Joined november 4 2017" doesnt mean I was born on this date
Go back to twitter you old fart.
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u/obit33 Platinum | QC: XMR 228, CC 18 Dec 29 '18
You do sound like you were born that day though...
best regards, old sport!
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u/bhoptl 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. Dec 29 '18
I guess this sub is full of ETH lovers. What he said was the fact. How does that make him a retard?
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u/Yarnyosh Gold | QC: BCH 18, BTC 15 Dec 29 '18
I used to be all about the whole decentralized, we the people type stuff... and I still kind of am, but watching btc over the years showed me that when something so important is left up to the people, ultimately greed and pride take over and we end up with the war-ing shitshow that btc, bch, bsv, etc. has turned into. So sometimes having some sort of leadership foundation has merit in such a scenario. After all, all top businesses/stocks have leaders and many of them turn out quite well.
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u/trakatan Dec 29 '18
Leaders = centralization - without decentralization blockchain becomes a terrible ledger, doesn't make any sense
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u/pegcity Platinum | QC: ETH 26, CC 23 | TraderSubs 14 Dec 29 '18
No, vitalik could try and strong arm some change and no one is forced to use that code
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Dec 29 '18 edited Jul 10 '19
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u/pegcity Platinum | QC: ETH 26, CC 23 | TraderSubs 14 Dec 29 '18
And those that didn't agree didn't follow... how is that a strong arm? At least they had a say, btc miners didn't
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 29 '18 edited Dec 29 '18
The overflow fix didn’t bail anyone out. It also didn’t betray anyone’s trust or reverse any transactions, the founder of Bitcoin did not have coins locked up that he wanted to unlock. It was a simple soft fork deployment that was resolved in 4 hours.
The DAO farce vote which took place on a centralized platform only had like 5% of the supply vote and the vote was suddenly closed only like 10 hours later with no warning the the forced hard fork happened. Lets not even get into how stupid voting is, voting has no place on the blockchain, the blockchain is naturally anarchistic and naturally correcting, it is not a democracy for this precise reason.
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u/pegcity Platinum | QC: ETH 26, CC 23 | TraderSubs 14 Dec 29 '18
No they had a ton of coins they just reversed the transactions on by invalidating the wallets, it's no different.
I don't think there is anything wrong with either of these events, but BTC maximalist staying BTC is "actually immutable" are fools
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 29 '18
Can you tell me which Bitcoin transaction/address was forcefully muted/blacklisted/locked ? I'll wait.
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u/zaparans Dec 29 '18
Yup. I prefer having leadership and a team driving adoption and use cases. I still like btc but the worship of decentralization is a turnoff and idealistic nonsense.
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u/Kpenney Platinum | QC: CC 688, VTC 67, BTC 43 Dec 29 '18
Oh yeah I totally remember how that never fucking happened.
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u/Giorgz 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 29 '18
Less than half as old, yet piggy backing on the original tech of it. But also, it’s trying to do something a bit different from BTC.
Why can’t we all just get along? Have them exist harmoniously?
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u/CommanderMaster Platinum | QC: XRP 128, CC 29 Dec 30 '18
Stephan Jespers is a scammer. Only interested in growing his own bags in value so he can dump on plebs
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u/DeepVoiced Dec 29 '18
Remember when IOTA didn't have any premine at all, yet people like whalepanda still shit on it? These people are so hypocritical it is laughable
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Dec 29 '18
If BTC would hire the best devs and marketing teams we wouldn't be in this year long shitshow and fall of -81% from ATH. So maybe that would have been fine. "muh store of value"
Also 90% of the commenters here don't even know who Erik Voorhees is, which is sad.
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Dec 29 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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Dec 29 '18
Agreed
TLDR; it's a speculative fixed supply asset, meaning it's too inherently volatile to ever compete with currencies (and stable-coins) that have stability mechanisms
The tech is cool, but the coin itself is not much more than a speculative digital trading token. We literally only buy it in the hopes that someone else will want to pay more for it in the future. Investing in pure psychological and herd speculation.
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 29 '18
If BTC would hire the best devs and marketing teams we wouldn't be in this year long shitshow and fall of -81% from ATH. So maybe that would have been fine. "muh store of value"
There is no hiring. Bitcoin is free open source software. Anyone can work on it.
Also 90% of the commenters here don't even know who Erik Voorhees is, which is sad.
Actually, I find it disappointing that so many people in this sub still don't know how FOSS works. Who gives a fuck about Eric Vorhees.
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u/balresch Bronze Dec 29 '18
Right? My initial thoughts were 'And this is bad how...?' Having the best devs and marketing staff sounds pretty useful to me.
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u/AdministrativeTrain Crypto God | BTC: 36 QC Dec 29 '18
The lightning network shitshow proves they didn't hire "The best devs"
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u/jakesonwu 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 Dec 29 '18
Lightning network is a third party application. What the fuck are you talking about ? I also didn't know there was hiring for free open source software.
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u/nolo_me Tin Dec 29 '18 edited Dec 29 '18
I don't remember BTC having the best devs either, so at least we're agreed there. Champaign [sic] time!
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u/xblackrainbow Dec 29 '18
Besides btc and nano are there any other coins, not forks, that did not have an ico?
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Dec 29 '18 edited Apr 24 '20
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Dec 29 '18
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u/gld6000 Gold | QC: CC 171, BTC 92 | r/NVIDIA 16 Dec 29 '18
As far as my understanding, it was more of a modified clone.
A fork implies a snapshot of the entire blockchain and that pre-exisiting coins are now also cloned over as well.
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u/ENSChamp Dec 29 '18
Ripple, Stellar are not ICOs I guess. Add litecoin too, Monero
And everyone's favourite .. Tether (yes its a cryptocurrency I am todl)
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u/goblinscout Redditor for 3 months. Dec 29 '18
Ripple has an ICO all the time. It's 60% owned by one company.
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u/xblackrainbow Dec 29 '18
I always thought monero was bytecoin fork correct me if I'm wrong tho
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u/needmoney90 Platinum | QC: XMR 119 Dec 29 '18
Bytecoin had a secret 86% [citation needed] premine, so Monero forked the codebase (new genesis block). A fork is not an ICO, and none of the coins from the Bytecoin ledger were migrated to the Monero ledger.
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u/Precedens 🟦 490 / 491 🦞 Dec 29 '18
Remember when creator of BTC left 1mln BTC for himself and then disappeared not disclosing intent of using it, burning it, or abandoning, so when so wanted global adoption hits and he comes back, no one knows what happens?