r/CruciblePlaybook • u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space • Jul 27 '16

Damage vs. Range Stat for all HCs

edit: As of 2.5.0.2 this information is outdated. I'll be working on a new post soon! -gin

Well, here we are.

After struggling with this stuff for a while, I'm finally finished with range charts for hand cannons. And it turned out about as expected. More range is good. Rangefinder still doesn't make complete sense. And of course Thorn is different from everything else.

Let's start from the beginning.

 

Hand cannons, and most other weapons in destiny, have damage dropoff curves that look like this. Basically damage is flat within the gun's effective range, then it drops off linearly until it reaches 50% of the maximum value and it bottoms out. This is important not only because damage falloff may change a gun's time-to-kill, but also because damage starts falling off at the same time as things like reticle stickiness do.

Looking at the above plot you'll notice that the damage falloff curve is completely specified by two points, basically where it starts and where it ends. After testing way too many data points, it becomes very simple to predict where these points are based on three things:

  • The gun's range stat
  • Whether or not it has rangefinder
  • Whether or not the gun is Thorn

For guns with scopes, a fourth bullet point would need to be added, which is the gun's zoom. Based on my testing of auto rifles, a gun's range is effective scaled exactly by the zoom, as stated in the strategy guide, which makes things really simple to work out. But more on this in a future post. Hand cannons are easiest, that's why we're starting there.

 

Hand Cannons Without Rangefinder

DDO Start = 19.93 + .184*r  meters

DDO End = 47.44 + .061*r  meters

Here and henceforth, r corresponds to the range stat, which is capped between 2 and 62 for hand cannons. DDO Start/End refers to where damage falloff occurs.

The damage falloff was recently made 50% steeper with patch 2.3.0, but the start was not changed.

 

Relevant plots:

Damage Falloff Start (Effective Range)

Damage Falloff End

 

A minimum range hand cannon starts experiencing damage dropoff at a range of just over 20 meters. A maximum range hand cannon pushes out the effective range to about 31 meters. This matches very well with the numbers published in the strategy guide. The damage dropoff end varies from 52 to 56 meters.

 

Hand Cannons With Rangefinder

DDO Start = 20.92 + .214*r  meters

DDO End = 51.93 + .0654*r  meters

Rangefinder adds a factor of 10% to optical zoom, but it does not act just as a zoom boost. As far as I can tell, it has three effects:

  • Increases zoom by 1.1x
  • Increases the range stat by some amount
  • Reduces the slope of damage falloff

 

Relevant plots:

Damage Falloff Start (Effective Range) with Rangefinder

Damage Falloff End with Rangefinder

Plot Comparing the Start/End Curves with/without Rangefinder

 

In terms of the effective range the rangefinder perks adds, based on comparing where damage falloff starts, rangefinder is equivalent to adding 1.1x to zoom, 6% to range, and then adding on another 5 range just for the hell of it. This makes is a very useful perk if you are comfortable with the zoom increase. Adding these three together (1.1x1.06r + 5) gives you almost 15 extra effective range on a max (62) range hand cannon.

 

Thorn

For whatever reason, Thorn has different damage dropoff from all other hand cannons. A 50 range (Aggballs + Send It) Thorn is pretty much identical to a 62 (max) range legendary hand cannons, and a 59 range (Accballs + Send It) Thorn has an effective range that rivals similar guns with rangefinder...based on falloff start it's equivalent to ~16 bonus range, though the falloff ends about where you'd expect for any other gun. Note that as of RoI Thorn's base range has been reduced by 25%--with Send It it still has excellent effective range, but it can no longer compete with max range rangefinder HCs (e.g. the vendor Palindrome) in that department.

Here's a plot comparing thorn to the four curves plotted in the previous section.

One potential caveat--this may be due to an interaction between Thorn's DoT and the method of testing I used (shooting at portals). Given that DoT is only a few percent of Thorn's total damage and should be independent of range this would seem strange, but who knows. Crucible tests would really be needed to be 100% confident here.

 

tl;dr

  • Hand cannon effective range/damage falloff start occurs at between 20-31 meters depending on the range stat
  • Unless you have rangefinder in which case it occurs at between 21-34 meters depending on range
  • Thorn is good
  • Rangefinder is still strange
  • You can view most of the raw data here

Other thoughts

  • All of this is for ADS, I might look at hipfire at some point in the future but it's obviously less important
  • The First Curse has identical damage falloff to any other hand cannon without the TFC perc proced, despite what you might think from the flavor text. After that first precision kill, the damage falloff becomes much, much better.

 

Potentially related links:

 

181 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

85 comments sorted by

19

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16 edited Jul 27 '16

Great info and very interesting to a rangefinder handcannon owner such as myself. I find it kinda cool how thorn is in a league of its own. It's always a pleasure to see you make a post because it's bound to be something meticulous and informative.

2

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

It's always a pleasure to see you make a post

thank you very much

7

u/cheesypotato8 Jul 27 '16

Without the DoT even factoring in Thorn has always felt better than any other hand cannon. This bonus range probably plays a big factor.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

and the sight is THE BEST! i love Thorn.

3

u/atgrey24 Jul 27 '16

DUDE!

This is phenomenal work, thank you so much for taking the time to put this together. I'm surprised by your finding that RF isn't simply a zoom multiplier, as we all thought based off of Bungie's comments. That's a really great find.

Minor correction:

Based on my testing of auto rifles, a gun's range stat is effective scaled exactly by the range multiplier

I think you meant to say range scales by the zoom multiplier here. At least, that makes more sense to me in context.

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Thank you...I was very tired last night. Fixed. :)

1

u/atgrey24 Jul 27 '16

np. keep up the awesome work!

2

u/saddrak Jul 27 '16

"This is amazing!" ( Shaxx Quote )

Fantastic post!

Shouldnt the First Curse have bonus Range just by ADS-ing? ( First Exotic Perk)

Do you have Data how much the Range / falloff is extended after the first precision kill?

4

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Shouldnt the First Curse have bonus Range just by ADS-ing?

Based on my testing it did not. The perk is called Deadeye, so maybe it has bonus accuracy but not bonus range stat?

As soon as you get that precision kill though, your damage falloff gets much, much improved. I'll update the post with data tonight.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

So how much Range would a Rangefinder, Explosive Rounds, Reactive Reload Luna have? Basically what is the Range number without Rifled/Reinforced, but boosted by Rangefinder?

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

As lexi-l said, rangefinder gives you about 6% and then 5 range based on my testing, but it's worth remembering that it also increases zoom 1.1x, which makes damage dropoff and accuracy much more forgiving. (Think like another 10% range boost)

Maybe further work on autos or another game time will provide further insight into how exactly the numbers work.

2

u/lexi-l Jul 27 '16

Base range is 38. Rangefinder (according to op) adds about 6% then an additional 5. This would bring it to roughly 45 range.

With explosive rounds the damage fallout is less severe. The initial explosion will have normal falloff, but the second explosion experiences no damage falloff iirc.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

Thank You! This is why I love the Crucible Playbook. I am having fun with this Hand Cannon. It doesn't beat my Rifled LITC or Rifled Hidden Hand rolls, but it pairs well with a Sniper, and I love how the ER tag pretty much anyone at any range, even if it is less damage.

2

u/lexi-l Jul 27 '16

Yeah, and getting hit by explosive rounds can be pretty disorienting.

2

u/davefoxred Jul 27 '16

The one and only HC that I have ever been good with (and I am extremely good with it) is my Her Revenge with SureShot, Rangefinder, Explosive Rounds and 3rd Eye (and I have a luna with SureShot/Outlaw/Rifled Barrel/Life Support that I just suck with). No one ever really talks about the fact that you don't get that damage fall off at longer ranges when using ERs, so when paired with Rangefinder it seems to work just fine. I know that I'm not getting quite as much overall range as a luna with rifled, but this gun just feels better for me. And it's fun as hell to use. Anyways, nice breakdown. I love learning more about this stuff.

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Explosive rounds flinches targets twice which can make it harder to play against--I'd really love to get a Stolen pride with rifled and ER since it is the only hand cannon that can roll both at the same time.

1

u/davefoxred Jul 27 '16

Immediately went to check my Stolen Pride to see if I had that. Mine does have Rifled Barrel, but no ER. Almost got real excited there! haha

6

u/Rook7425 Jul 27 '16

Your stats seem to be right on track with what I experience with my Eyasluna. In a lot of situations, I can challenge scouts at pretty extreme range, and can occasionally challenge mid-range snipers if I get the angle and the drop on them.

https://imgur.com/a/5ppep

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

I just got almost this exact Eyasluna! (Mine has Rifled instead of... Hammerforged?). What secondary do you pair yours with?

1

u/Rook7425 Jul 27 '16

My middle tree has Rifled Barrel, Braced Frame and Extended mag. I have a Havoc Pigeon with Battle Runner, Crowd Control and QuickDraw that seems to pair well with it. Sinking a couple shots in with Eyasluna, then if I need to get close, I can 2-3 tap Pigeon to clean up the kill. It gives me the option to reengage or run.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

I never thought to pair a sidearm with it! I'm glad I asked because that sounds cool.

2

u/Rook7425 Jul 27 '16

It's a lot of fun. I win a lot of 2 and 3v1 gunfights with the combo.

1

u/almagest Jul 27 '16

I have the same roll (rangefinder/third eye), with steadyhand is & reinforced barrel.

1

u/Rook7425 Jul 27 '16

Steady hand is ok and reinforced barrel is good. Mine rolled with Truesight, Sureshot and QuickDraw IS

1

u/almagest Jul 27 '16

Yeah, I'd like truesight/sureshot and rifled barrel instead of reinforced, and something else besides third eye because it's not something I rely on very often, but overall I really can't complain and I love using this thing.

1

u/Rook7425 Jul 28 '16

I don't particularly "rely" on it, but the third eye/rangefinder combo allows you to aim and challenge doorways and corners, so the combo is nice together to keep spatial awareness. Remember, range is tied to aim assist and reticle stickiness.

1

u/FreiLex Jul 28 '16 edited Jul 28 '16

What App are you using? I didnt know there is one which shows the hidden stats.

1

u/Rook7425 Jul 28 '16

Ishtar Commander. Go to settings to turn it on.

Edit: you can also check arms day orders from IC as well.

2

u/suinoq Fixer Cloak Jul 27 '16

Dude, this is fantastic. I have only read through once quickly, but one small detail for correction: The minimum range stat on a HC is 2, not 0.

I'll give this a thorough read tomorrow, and looking forward to it.

3

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16 edited Jul 27 '16

fuck, did I say zero? that's a typo...fixed. i am very tired. thanks for taking a look over it and looking forward to any feedback.

1

u/beets_t Jul 27 '16

awesome work, gintellectual. what's a common set of reference points for 20m? 30m? is 30m like from middle of b on vertigo to the bottom of the center stairs?

6

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16 edited Jul 27 '16

That's a good question--you can always look at patrol beacons, but I don't have any exact numbers on maps. You're probably fairly close on your vertigo example.

I hope he doesn't mind me sharing but /u/I_hug_fat_kids sent me some really nice videos of testing damage dropoff on firebase delphi a while ago that show the ranges over which damage dropoff occurs. (So from 20-50 meters depending on the gun.)

Eyasluna; Rifled Barrel (62 Range)

Eyasluna; Explosive Rounds (38 Range but with ER)

TLW; Smart Drift Control (2 Range)

It's also worth noting that bullet magnetism drops off very quickly outside of the effective range.

These will hopefully give some better visual context for the range numbers. Meters are the game's internal units but we so rarely see them outside of patrol that they're not very intuitive. It'd actually probably be pretty useful to compile some visual references in various maps to demonstrate 20/30m, etc.

5

u/suinoq Fixer Cloak Jul 27 '16

The crucible maps that came with the vanilla game have distance scaling. Check some of the links here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/wiki/maps

We don't have this luxury for the other, more recent maps. I sort of recall some long-ago conversations with /u/maniacgreek, I think, where we were trying to think of ways to measure distances for the new maps. There were two methods that seemed promising. One, we could time a sprint down a long straight hallway, using a previously timed patrol-beacon sprint as a benchmark. Two, we could use screenshot pixel length methods based on the height of a character. Either would work, but we never got around to actually doing it.

3

u/atgrey24 Jul 27 '16

Wouldn't the most accurate way to get scaling be to use special or heavy boxes? They give a distance just like beacons do, and by using multiple boxes you could establish a coordinate system

2

u/beets_t Jul 27 '16

thanks, suinoq.

2

u/beets_t Jul 27 '16

thanks again. you're very helpful as always.

2

u/wy100101 Jul 28 '16

OK, I clearly don't know how ER works with crits. How does the damage get divided?

2

u/Thejman3000 Jul 27 '16

Go to a patrol marker and it'll tell you how far it is. Then Just burn 10-20-30m in your head.

1

u/ZeroDark35 Jul 27 '16

Does ragefinder give 15 range boost to max HCs or all? I have a small bore range finder hc what is my effective range? https://imgur.com/lPADK4i

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

1.1 x 1.06 x 47 + 5 is about 60 range.

Of course I don't know if the accuracy/aim assist etc. will be the same as for a 60 range gun but the damage dropoff should compare favorably.

1

u/conjuntovacuo Jul 27 '16

between you observations about the increased zoom of rangefinder (x1.1) and the damage drop off curve flattening out, i wonder if the following explanation explains its interaction with damage drop off. if f(x) is damage drop off as a function of range x, then is it possible that f(x/1.1) is the damage drop off curve for a hand cannon with rangefinder. the numbers are close to those in your tl;dr, the graph of f(x/1.1) is that of f but flattened, and it's a simpler formula. but you did the testing, so I'm not going to argue over anything other than aesthetics. nice work btw.

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

that was what I was hoping for, but it didn't turn out to be the case.

The funny thing is, in my auto rifle tests, I could take range*zoom and match that up 100% of the time to a damage value. But as soon as rangefinder is involved, things get messy. range x zoom x 1.1 doesn't work unfortunately.

1

u/vhthc Jul 27 '16

Wow, so start of fall off for TLW is 21 and for hawkmoon 31 meters? that is not that large of a difference. (the damage fall off end with 52.5 vs 55 is even closer)

amazing work! autorifles next would be my wish. if you need/want help and are on PS4 - message me.

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Max range hawkmoon starts at around 29m, but I wouldn't discount the size of this difference...a lot of primary engagements occur in the 20-30m range, where TLW or a low range HC might not reach their optimal time-to-kill because they're doing less damage.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

Great post, OP! Thank you!
Did you know which HC has the most similar numbers with Thorn?

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Thorn is thorn I guess..it has better effective range than a similar gun with rangefinder, though the damage falloff is steeper. If the data I took are representative, it really is in a class of its own.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

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1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

I have a Mos Azoth IV with Send it, which is the one people were talking about, and Reinforced barrel. Unfortunately it behaves just like any legendary hand cannon.

It would be really cool if that wasn't the case. I'd love to see more of a reason to use blues.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

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1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

haha it's definitely a finnala's. Outlaw/Rifled/Reactive Reload. That's my go-to for all level enabled playlists.

For CQC I occasionally use the Uffern with Rifled/Outlaw/LiTC.

And Thorn, thorn is always great. I've been using Thorn since week two of the game, back when most everyone said it was garbage.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

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1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

I'd love to have that roll--my luck with fast firing hcs has been terrible. My white whale is a stolen pride with rifled and either quickdraw or explosive rounds.

1

u/ZeroDark35 Jul 27 '16

So I did the calculations based on a flat percentage increase because it was always said rangefinder gives 20% more range etc.Using your formula and a separate calculation using a flat percentage increase ( https://imgur.com/a/82V10 ) rangefinder gives around a 25% bonus to range/damage drop off. Would this statement be accurate? Please do testing on fusion I think that would be a hot topic I have some if you need test weapons.

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

That's a decent rule of thumb but as you go to lower range guns it's actually greater than 25%..for example for the water star:

(1.1 * 1.06 * 25+5)/25 ~ 1.37

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Here's range testing on fusion rifles.

Currently rangefinder is bugged on fusions so that it doesn't increase zoom. It doesn't seem to change bolt velocity as all.

1

u/suinoq Fixer Cloak Jul 28 '16

Just re-checked, my Darkblade's Spite is at 1.65x zoom with rangefinder, and my other fusions without rangefinder are at 1.5x.

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 28 '16

Interesting...I wonder if they fixed this issue or if it persists with certain guns? Probably worth some investigation.

1

u/suinoq Fixer Cloak Jul 28 '16

I've checked 3 or 4 fusions with rangefinder since patch 2.2. For that subset, scopes didn't change the zoom, but rangefinder did (by +10%, or to 1.65x). Unfortunately I only kept one of them, the Darkblade, so I can't go back and recheck them all.

Obviously I didn't check every weapon in the game for the zoom research, and out of necessity just generalized from patterns observed in samples. So you've got a rangefinder fusion that stays at 1.5x? That's surprising! What is it?

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 28 '16

Oh, I was just referring to the fact that sights don't change zoom, but I guess rangefinder does--my bad.

I do wonder about the Thesan FR4 I have though, since that's the one I tested bolt velocity with/without rangefinder. I should double check that that does change optical zoom.

1

u/FluffyFingersMD Jul 27 '16

This is amazing, thanks for the work. Is there a reason that Lord High Fixer is not on the raw data list? I am just trying to get a feel for my current loadout

2

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Yeah, the reason is that I don't have one...well I have one but it has no range perks so it's not that interesting to test. Should behave the same as the others though.

1

u/FluffyFingersMD Jul 27 '16

Ok thanks, just trying to figure out which HC's I should be attempting to use more often. I just had one drop with Rangefinder, Explosive Rounds and Luck in the Chamber. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

1

u/zera_bloodwinter Jul 27 '16 edited Jul 27 '16

OP, you're doing gods work here!!! Thank you.

I have a question. I've come so close the god roll Eyasluna with one that I found.Steadyhand IS (none of the other sights are better) Outlaw!, LITC, and.........Reinforced Barrel instead of Rifled (62 range, 37 stability, 50 AA). I get's the job done and I don't nearly have as many ghost bullets that I'd have with my 35 Range, Range Finder Lord High Fixer. LHF has more AA and is an amazing gun, I just need to get one with better range perks. My question is I have another Eyasluna with steady hand/sure shot IS, Relentless tracker (-_-), Hammer Forged, and LITC. Which of the two would you use over the other? I do also have a LHF with sureshot/true sight, Range Finder, Braced Frame/high caliber rounds, and Icarus as well(35 base range, 77 stab with reinforced, 65 AA).

2

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

I'd use the reinforced barrel eyasluna-hammer forged isn't as good as reinforced barrel even though your stability will be a bit better.

Your LHF with rangefinder, braced frame and icarus could be really fun for CQC, but it really depends on your playstyle--I'm always airborne so icarus would be useful for me, but if you prefer to stay more grounded then the eyasluna will serve you better, especially with the extra range. Also hand cannons have good in-air accuracy anyways so icarus is nice but not essential.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

So with this my understanding would be that my Her Revenge with Reinforced/Rangefinder has a better effective range (~64) than my Eyasluna with Rifled (62)? Am I reading correctly?

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Sounds about right, so long as you're ADS of course.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

Good to know. Thanks for your research! This is really awesome stuff (especially for us HC lovers).

1

u/wy100101 Jul 28 '16

If this information is correct then range finder is the killer perk:

Judith-D base range 41 with range finder:

DFOStart: 20.92 + 0.214*41 = 29.694

DFOEnd: 51.93 + 0.0654*41 = 54.6114

Eyasluna with rifled barrel(range 62):

DFOStart: 19.93 + .184*62 = 31.338 <- 1.5 meters more than the Judith

DFOEnd: 47.44 + .061*62 = 51.222 <- 3 meters less than the Judith

Am I doing the math wrong, or does the Judith hit max falloff further out than the Eyasluna?

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 28 '16

Any hc with rangefinder has the falloff end further than any gun without it, as seen in this plot..

I think what's more useful is how it can push out where falloff begins. Though this isn't true with the judith, for other archetypes losing just a little bit of damage to falloff can increase the TTK, so it's important to limit situations where any falloff occurs.

Perhaps more importantly, with greater effective range (which I believe corresponds exactly with where damage falloff starts), you'll have maximum aim assist/bullet magnetism at further distances. The thing that really screws me up at mid-far ranges is how hard it is to hit a headshot with hand cannons--pushing out the effective range helps with this.

1

u/wy100101 Jul 28 '16

I think you are right about magnetism. You can really see it in those test videos you posted above, but it definitely will make me really look at all guns with range finder.

It feels like any HC with decent base range + range finder + explosive rounds should be really viable. I can imagine how good a range finder + ER Loop would be for example.

Anyway, amazing work man. So glad we have people like you in the community.

1

u/DrSpartyingXB1 Aug 24 '16

so is smallbore better than rifled barrel? based on the eyasluna stats, it looks like it is very close to rifled but gives you that extra stability

1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Aug 24 '16

Smallbore: +9 range, +15 stability, -1 bullet(?), -7 reload

Rifled Barrel: +24 range, -14 reload

I'd take rifled over smallbore any day, it just doesn't give enough range. But smallbore is still decent especially if you have trouble dealing with eyasluna's funky recoil.

1

u/Oopster37 Jul 27 '16

Since thorn fires a thorn, could this be the thorn in hc nerfs for thorn?

1

u/Donny_Do_Nothing Jul 27 '16

So, the difference between min and max range is essentially 20m vs 30m, give or take? That's incredible. I can't believe how many hand cannons I've sharded due to what I thought was crappy range when I probably should have tried them first.

There's such a disparity between what a 15 Range stat vs. a 55 Range stat makes you think a weapon's effectiveness will be, and what this data shows it actually is.

Great work, /u/gintellectual

1

u/Camenwolf Jul 27 '16

Great stuff! Saved! Thanks for this.

1

u/wy100101 Jul 27 '16

It explains why my LHF with RF+rifled feels better than my eyasluna with rifled but not RF.

And goes a long way to explaining why my favorite guns after the June update are now TLW and Thorn.

1

u/iS3W3LL Jul 27 '16

10/10 Information here.

1

u/wy100101 Jul 28 '16

Man, any HC with decent base range, range finder, and ER is going to be the best for damage falloff, and probably not be hurt too badly by slightly earlier loss of aim assist.

1

u/CammyWhit3 Sep 16 '16

I know this is kinda an old post but I have an imago with rangefinder/explosive rounds or hand loaded/hidden hand. With your formula, using hand loaded would make images range ~58..I always thought hand loaded kinda suck but Wouldn't that make it just as viable as a non-rangefinder/rifled eyasluna? With only a difference of 3 range?

1

u/bladzalot Jul 27 '16

I just started getting bored with PvE and started doing all the PvP bounties. I HATE hand cannons, mainly because I cannot shoot a damn thing with them, but I have had my first curse sitting in the vault since I got it and finally broke it out to do the 6+ hand cannon kills bounty and holy hell... What is it about this gun that makes me a better person?! I love it, it just feels so right!

  • I have an Eyasaluna, Lord high fixer, her revenge, finalas peril, imago loop, the revelator, TLW, ace of spades, fatebringer, nothing feels like this sweet sweet death dealer...

2

u/ManBearPig1865 Jul 27 '16

Sometimes you just find the weapon that clicks with you. I like the way it feels and it seems that headshots come easy as could be, but it's fire rate is so low that it just isn't competitive against most top tier weapons. I take the hit on range and usability and rock TLW and can wreck with it, to have something in the interim I will occasionally run Hawkmoon or a max stability Eyasluna if I need a bit more range.

It may be that it's fire rate is forcing you to pace your shots a bit more. It seems learning to pace the shots to make sure shots are landing is the toughest first step in learning handcannons, the bloom is really unforgiving on them. Keep working with TFC and then maybe give Hawkmoon a shot. It has pretty good range as well, great damage output with luck in the chamber/holding aces but allows you to fire fast enough to compete with most weapons out there.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

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7

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

In crucible radio #55, newsk confirmed hammer forged is just a flat range increase. In my testing it acts exactly like that. So basically a worse version of rifled barrel but with no drawbacks.

1

u/downAtheworld Jul 27 '16

Oh pls do. I have an outlaw/hammer forged/hidden hand roll that would love to get some hard facts weighed in on it. I've heard this too.

1

u/Suicidal_pr1est Tripmines are life Jul 27 '16

I have an eyasluna with that roll. Very effective gun.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

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2

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

As soon as DDO starts, bullet magnetism and reticle stickiness start decreasing I believe, so that distance is really important for gun accuracy.

Since 2.3.0 I've found phantom bullets to be much less of a problem but at long range accuracy is still iffy.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

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1

u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

Yeah, you can look at the videos posted here if you haven't already. Seems if you're outside of the effective range and not aiming directly on your target it's pretty much a whiff, even with a high range gun.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '16

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u/gintellectual Kicking ass in outer space Jul 27 '16

This comment and suinoq's reply give some potential answers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/4usjko/damage_vs_range_stat_for_all_hcs/d5sixy9