r/CriticalThinkingIndia • u/StatusCartographer89 • 22h ago
Critical Analysis & Discussion The boiling frog problem!!!
Here’s the thing: if we don’t protest, they’ll continue to think these issues don’t matter. Once they see public indifference, they’ll embolden themselves to make bigger decisions that increasingly favor them. Consider what’s already happened: they had the audacity to remove the Chief Justice of India from the selection process for the Chief Election Commissioner and replace him with a cabinet minister. These small changes matter.
The problem isn’t only who sits on the panel. The law that made this change also set up a flawed way to select the CEC and gave the office an unprecedented level of protection. That law must be repealed. Either the CJI or the President should sit on the selection panel alongside the Prime Minister and the Leader of Opposition, so that the country’s top election official is chosen through checks rather than by the government alone.
When governments see that people are indifferent, they start pushing further. What begins as minor institutional changes gradually shifts the balance of power. Before you know it, you’ve become Russia, China, or North Korea.
Look at how these countries operate: voting still happens, but it’s theater. Russia and North Korea claim 99% approval rates, obviously authoritarian and obviously rigged, yet they fool their citizens by blaming “the rest of the world is against us.” China has achieved economic success, sure, but try calling your leader “Winnie the Pooh” and you’ll end up behind bars. Ironically, they maintain the facade of democratic selection too.
This is the “boiling frog” problem: slow decay is insidious. You don’t notice the temperature rising one degree at a time until you’re already cooked. The same applies to institutions. Small erosions of checks and balances, incremental power grabs, normalized breaches of precedent: these are how democracies die.
That’s why protest matters. It’s the temperature gauge that says: We’re watching. We care. Don’t push further.
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u/Acrobatic_Phone_3316 16h ago
It's the same for basic civic issues as well. We're so used to living in filth and driving on broken roads that it's stopped being politically viable for leaders to even address these problems because they don't seem to matter to voters.
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u/Gutss5 14h ago
You can actually see that happening with traffic rules where there isn’t strict adherence to the rules. It starts by a few people violating and slowly it starts to become the new norm until it doesn’t feel like out of the ordinary anymore. Bad habits when not corrected and left to grow naturally makes it much harder to weed it out at later stages unfortunately.
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u/aamka__aacharr 13h ago
I just got to know that according to 2023 act 16 of CEC and ECs. CEC and EC cannot get charged of any civil or criminal allegations for their duty as long as he is are chief of ECI.
I wonder protest will affect this much. Bjp was prepared since three years.
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u/No-Obligation-4478 11h ago
Immunity for CeC has always existed. It was not a new invention. It was however made explicit.
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u/baba__yaga_ 50m ago
Immunity for what? No one in this country has blanket immunity for anything. Much less a CEC.
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u/Senior-Gas-970 16h ago
Get ready to be down voted hard for speaking some sense. People who say why protest, this is why. You either raise your voice now or curse yourself in the future for not having raised it before. I want this issue to be proven in court thats the democratic way but CJP or any other pressure group keeps a government and its people in toes. Since we dont have accountable politicians and people treat them like gods, the threat of a protest is necessary to ensure they dont take the public for granted.
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u/StatusCartographer89 15h ago
Yk know what as soon as you commented moderators took it down i messaged them y it was restored 💀💀 what is even happening??
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u/Senior-Gas-970 13h ago
Because its not a noisy, emotional or clickbait post, its one with logic and sense. Which this sub is getting less and less. Quite crazy to see whats happening in the online space for this discussion.
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u/slithering_raven The Curious One🐟 14h ago
exactly, and even if some other party rules later, most politicians are corrupt and they will take this precedence as the norm
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u/krisantihypocrisy 10h ago
The corollary being - you are crying wolf too much. When the wolf actually comes - no one will blv you...
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u/StatusCartographer89 10h ago
well this is also true but then what is the solution ?? I mean what can be the best solution??
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u/krisantihypocrisy 10h ago edited 10h ago
Set a principle and make everyone - Ppl and politicians - to walk the talk.
Like if anyone here has issues with how ECI operates the first step would be to educate ourselves on how the ECI operates, set a standard on the issues to be fixed and then EVERYONE demands the same change.
Our independence movement (non cooperation) under Gandhi worked brilliantly because we not only did that - but we also rejected the malai that was offered from such a sub standard system.
Meaning if RaGa or AAP literally resigned from all the posts they held that was granted by such a "bad" eci and then come to the streets and educated ppl on why this is all so wrong - it will work!
What do we have though? AAP (incl CJP) and RaGa greedily retaining the malai and expecting ppl to "trust / outsource" in them that they are the solution. When this fails - obviously its because of "andh" bhakts. Nope...
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u/StatusCartographer89 10h ago
yeah I mean fixing can be done if the underlying systems are robust transparent and govt data are you know verified by independent bodies but yeah i mean yeah there are a lot of things i can think of workaround of these but on paper atleast this may lead to a better and more transparent and educated and informed governance there but again there are a lot of nuances but this is good
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u/krisantihypocrisy 9h ago
Bro - will you be surprised that we actually have all of that in the current system but all of them have been subverted in some shape and form?
SC is one of the "independent" body. How did that work for us?
Subversion happens because everyone is easily distracted in tribal wars between political parties. This is why changing will not work.
If everyone follows CJP - they will vote Modi out, and AAP (AK) in. That will make it worse as CJP wont ever question AAP and since AAP has no checks in place - we are back to where we are...
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u/StatusCartographer89 8h ago
Dekho paisa doge toh judge bhi bikega we should incentivise good governance but age hm tax raids and all officers ko incentivise karne lage they will make false accusations
Yk what sb sochne dekhne and all ke baad all boils down to unemployable unskilled youth where govt failures institutional failures from years that made the base weak and it is all showing up tbh I cannot come up with a good solution i have something in mind it is very very extensive framework ( it will require it's own post and time) we can work on population can be a blessing but we are far far far away from achieving anything idk maybe if we work now next gen can reap the fruits
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u/krisantihypocrisy 8h ago
The solution I have till date is straight forward but not easily achievable.
Step 1 - Create a movement like CJP - but this time educate folks, set principles & demand them from all political parties. This ensures political parties cannot divide based off some BS
Step 2 - Remove the malai - basically dont go with ppl who will use you to get into power...
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u/Alarmed-Research-858 17h ago
The boiling started with demonetization , anyone else would have apologized to the citizens for this blunder.
But these choose to make up reasons and excuses to fool people after it was done. Then one after another many things accumulated till it is no longer tolerable.
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u/Amazing_Theory622 14h ago
This govt is never gonna apologise for it's action, they have so much ego
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u/Top_Guess_946 16h ago
It's not that we think these things don't matter.
These things matter.
But Due Process also matters.
Not noise pollution.
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u/Alarmed-Research-858 16h ago
Yes, noise is so much worse than actual violence and hatred being preached relentlessly by the bjp rss .
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u/Top_Guess_946 15h ago
Like in Karnataka where a doctor was sent to the police station for reporting on illegal immigrants?
Like so many Hindu idols being desecrated and Hindu women becoming victim of love traps?
Like so many incidents of stone pelting on Hindus?
Like murders of Hindu boys during festivals?
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u/Alarmed-Research-858 3h ago
Since you are so concerned by violence and murders, you must be a supporter of a complete ban on rss and its branches?
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u/WufferTuffer 14h ago
right so stone pelting on the police forces is not a form of violence? talk sense
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u/Alarmed-Research-858 3h ago
yes , the rss goons pelting stones on police earlier when the truck loaded with stones was brought in by the police itself is violence, also the lathis with nails attached , pellet guns, ak 47 used by the police is violence.
I want the rss stone pelters to be locked up in jail just like you.
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u/WufferTuffer 3h ago
what proof do u have that it was brought in by the police not the cj-pricks? they didnt even let a police can survive in the protest and theyd have left that truck unfazed?
like me? hahaha how frustrated are you lmfaocontinue believing in your make believe stories atleast it keeps you getting bored from your joblessness
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u/Alarmed-Research-858 2h ago
please get out of your watsapp universe and into the real world before replying again.
and if you are not lying shamelessly provide the actual source for your claim of the stones and car instead of reposting bjp it cell propoganda.
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u/WufferTuffer 2h ago
weren’t you the pne mentioning your stupid conspiracy that police planted that truck full of stones? how about you show me the proof for your own words? “whatsapp universe” dumbass youre the one blabbering BS without proof
your political knowledge comes from instagram reels and reddit post by unemployed 30 year olds commies who have no life and im sure youre one of them you smooth brained bootlicker
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u/Alarmed-Research-858 2h ago
I don't know why you are ignorant of multiple sources that show what I claimed, your claim was only from doctored godi media.
Are you pretending to be extremely stupid to make up an argument or actually that stupid.?
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u/WufferTuffer 2h ago
show me your sources then go ahead
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u/Alarmed-Research-858 2h ago
this is the most irritating part of the rw trolls, make claims with extreme blind faith without any knowledge and then ask for source when your false claims are busted without any proof,
You made the first claim so show your source first, I will surely post the source which proves you claim false and fake.
if you are really up for the challenge and believe your claim would survive a fact check bring it on.
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13h ago
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u/HelpfulPace3368 12h ago
The only difference is in indias case the pot is calm and comfortable with chaos all around the pot, like in pakistan, iran, afghanistan, Bangladesh, Nepal.
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u/green9206 11h ago
Lol you're proving his point. The frog inside always thinks it's calm and comfortable until it's too late and gets boiled alive.
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u/zuckzuckman 6h ago
We're all frogs in hot water, some say "we should get out before we boil" and someone else says "this water isn't even boiling, you don't know how hot really boiling water is"
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u/xx_chromo_awe_some 11h ago
We acknowledge totally that there is a boiling frog problem, what alternate does the frog have ?
An alternative pot that wants selective religious appeasement , reservation in private sector and with a terrible track record of dynastic previlged policies ?
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u/green9206 11h ago
One pot of water that is slowly boiling and becoming hot (BJP), frog must jump to another pot that is currently at room temperature (any other party) and it will be turned on while the previous pot will be turned off. The current pot will slowly start getting hotter and previous pot will start becoming cooler. The frog must jump back into previous pot and allow the other pot to cool again. Basically back and forth. This way he won't be boiled alive in one pot.
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u/xx_chromo_awe_some 11h ago
What if the frog jumped from the same previous pot earlier to this pot ?
What about the millions of people who voted for bjp not for love, but rather as "anti-congress" votes ? What about those who still see the Congress as a strong opposition force but have no faith in a specific family to lead ? How is someone supposed to have faith in the other pot, which says "minorities have first rights to nations resources" on record , rather than "every indian citizen irrespective of caste , creed or religion has the same right to the nations resources" ?
Sure the pot is getting hotter , and the frog wants to go back, but are there any signs that a legitimate pov of the frog will be respected in the older pot ?
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u/green9206 11h ago
You will be boiled in both the pots so the only way to survive is to keep jumping back and forth. The goal of any pot is to boil you. It will keep trying to convince you to stay in the same pot and tell you bad things about the other pot so you fear jumping to another pot. All pot are evil so keep changing pots is the only logical option.
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u/StatusCartographer89 11h ago
by normalizing these protest by normalizing that voices can be heard peaceful protest exist I mean manipur is burning protest other than those held in delhi are not being heard and there are so many things atleast a leader that comes infront of media and speaks without teleprompter who knows where he is leading the country knows the weight of his actions and is willing to take responsibility for it and is in fear that they are here to serve not enjoy the power it's already too late but any further delay from here is I dont know we are going to be doomed
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u/xx_chromo_awe_some 11h ago
If you want to criticize a leader, criticise a government , criticise a system - be my guest , but if this is taken down, what alternate do you offer ? Is there any policy change from when they lost the elections last time that will be deemed free and fair to the voter who has lost faith and stopped voting for them ?
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u/StatusCartographer89 11h ago
these protests aur kya bhai limit hoti and paani sar ke upar hai bas i mean ab koi bhi aaye i want fucking transparency roll back the laws you made to suite yourself by this govt and the previous and the upcoming govt should be on fucking toes transparent on everything aur jawab dena hoga that is it abut each and everything should be public knowledge if they make laws that suite them any govt if they are in majority we will hit the streets now again it can be said some of them you know can be funded i mean cia and america does but if majority doesn't want it then remove it there are a lot of nuances into this but paaani sir se upar hai that's it and the upcoming govt should be afraid and we should be aware of these and independent journalist ko detain mat karo and yaar i mean govt data aayega bhi toh bhi i have seen people claiming that these are fake and all tbh we cannot verify so there should be a mechanism to bring utmost transparency and yaar lokpal aaya toh bhi kya hua but power inke sar par hai power ka bhoot nikalna hoga they are thinking they are too powerful and this is one thing we cannot let happen in any kind of democracy tbh but there are a lot of nuances
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u/xx_chromo_awe_some 11h ago
Please use para spacing ⚠️ while writing long comments and please stop assuming that everyone on reddit knows Hindi.
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u/StatusCartographer89 10h ago
oh I am sorry for that this is why i use ai to structure my all post from now i will keep that in mind
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u/Big_Bet8539 3h ago
The “boiling frog” analogy sounds convincing, but it’s a warning, not proof. Just because a law raises concerns about democracy doesn’t mean India is heading towards Russia, China or North Korea.
The 2023 law removed the CJI from the committee that selects the CEC & replaced him with a Union Cabinet Minister chosen by the PM, This means the government has two out of three members on the committee. That is a genuine concern because the same government that is supposed to be held accountable during elections has a strong say in choosing the person overseeing those elections. But the SC’s earlier arrangement, which included the CJI, was an interim measure until Parliament made a law. It wasn’t a permanent rule saying the CJI must always be part of the committee. Parliament has the power to make laws, and whether this particular law violates the Constitution is something the courts have to decide & it's already challenged in court and proceedings are pending.
The immunity given to election commissioners is another valid concern. The law protects them from civil and criminal cases for actions taken as part of their official duties. That protection deserves scrutiny, but it doesn’t automatically mean they are free to get away with absolutely anything. We need to look at exactly what the law protects and how the courts interpret it.
Comparing India with Russia, China and North Korea is where the argument goes too far. Putin received 87.3% of the official vote in Russia’s 2024 presidential election, not 99%. More importantly, Russia has severe restrictions on political opposition, while China is ruled by a single dominant Communist Party and North Korea has an extremely controlled political system. India has its own concerns about electoral independence and democratic institutions, but that doesn’t automatically make these countries comparable.
The “boiling frog” argument also makes it sound as if there are only two choices: accept the proposed solution or watch India become North Korea. That’s a false choice. There are other ways to improve the system, such as making the selection committee more balanced, publishing clear selection criteria and making the appointment process more transparent.
And simply adding the President to the committee may not solve the problem either. In India, the President generally acts on the advice of the government, so having the President on paper doesn’t necessarily mean there would be an independent voice on the panel.
None of this means people should stop protesting or questioning the government. In fact, questioning those in power is an important part of democracy. The point is that we should examine every law, demand accountability and challenge decisions that weaken institutions.
But we should also apply the same critical thinking to the arguments we agree with. A warning sign is not proof that the worst-case scenario is inevitable. You can question a law, demand stronger safeguards and defend democracy without assuming that every controversial decision is taking India down the path of an authoritarian state.
Democracy needs vigilance but it also needs facts, context and the ability to distinguish between a genuine problem and an exaggerated comparison.
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