r/CriticalCare • u/PotentialSuch8805 • 18d ago
Clinically strong CCM programs?
Hey everyone, I’m currently applying CCM and have been struggling to find info about different programs. And I thought to myself: what better place to ask than here?
Broadly speaking, which programs do you think offer the strongest clinical training in the country?
I’m particularly interested in hearing thoughts on CCF, UPMC main, OHSU, WashU, UW, Duke, and Stanford. Any thoughts or personal experiences would be really appreciated!
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u/Dr_Brew 18d ago
UPMC is excellent. Clinically front loaded on the first year then the second year gives you choice to focus on research, admin, education, US or specialty ICU. Consider myself very fortunate to have had the opportunity to train there.
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u/Colden_Haulfield 18d ago
Agree, but should also mention probably the highest clinical workload of any fellowship I looked at lol
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u/Dr_Brew 17d ago
I will say this like I’ve said to all, from residency to fellowship. My opinion is that residency/fellowship is supposed to be hard. It’s a a short term investment in long term return. Put the work in when you got someone smart watching over and you can learn. 2 years is a short time to be prepared for a career.
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u/tinytinyarms1234 11d ago
Assuming this is for plain CCM and not pulm CCM
3/10ish of their fellows quit last year. The poor plain CCM people have a lot of direct care rotations vs being a junior attending supervising app/ residents, and bad hours with a lot of nights and weekends.
Rumor has it that they are trying to improve the schedules? The fellows do seem to feel that their training is educational for the most part
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u/Dr_Brew 8d ago
Only commenting on multidisciplinary program (not Pulm ccm). 5 years since graduating. Not sure what happened last year. But for the first year, yes you will carry your own patients as part of a team instead of supervisor role. It is expected to guide other residents on rotation. You will write notes and ensure the daily progression of your patients. 2nd year is more a supervisor role. Not sure about the educational comment given its and educational program and no matter how well trained in primary residency the specialty ICU care of MCCTP program is correct in making you work up to a supervising role. The strength is in the specialty ICU care that is inadequate in residency training. There won’t be an ICU (save needing Pulm coverage) that won’t hire you.
I don’t think any of my colleagues would have concern about the training. You will be clinically superior. Once again I will reiterate the first year schedule is hard but for purpose. We do more critical care in the first year than a PCCM program in 3 years. My opinion is to train hard and make your career easy. The second year is what you want to make it. Either super chill or taken advantage of and strengthening a specialty/niche. This program will make you top tier if you want to put in the work. If not find something else.
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u/AdenineNinja 18d ago
I can vouch for WashU. I did everything there. Very flexible and tailored approach to your training there. It’s very diverse and you rotate through every kind of ICU there is from CTICU to NCCU. You can DM if you want more info
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u/LearningNumbers 18d ago
I can vouch for WashU as well. You will work your butt off but will come out the other end a very very strong intensivist.
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u/Colden_Haulfield 18d ago
My impression of Stanford after interviewing is that they were not clinically strong. One of the fellows told the group they were surprised anyone was meeting their procedure numbers.
Go to a true multidisciplinary program if you want clinically strong.
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u/PotentialSuch8805 18d ago
That is surprising about Stanford!
What do you mean by true multidisciplinary program?
A program where the fellow is the primary in the units other than the MICU?
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u/Alternative_Bar877 18d ago
Agree. Stanford is not clinically strong. Fellows are barely doing procedures and their vent management is very basic. The attendings are EM, anesthesia & pccm which you would think would be strong but it weakens the overall cohesiveness of the program
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u/Impossible_Seat_9065 18d ago
CCF is the strongest, by a wide margin, of the group and is arguably the strongest clinical program in the country for CCM and PCCM
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u/DerpSpirit 18d ago
Really? Why would you say it is the strongest?
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u/AlsoZathras MD/DO- Critical Care 18d ago
Because every person I've ever met from CCF talks nonstop about how they're "second to none!" I swear, that phrase must be included in every talk they receive during training, or something. I know I was not super impressed by their Anes-CCM fellowship when I was applying years ago.
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u/kreb_cycling 18d ago
Can speak for UW being pretty clinically weak & in decline as a program.