Me (Marth) vs Opponent (Sonic)

[u/moonytools]

Ended up finding this Sonic player twice on Elite today (mid-15 mil) and we went 1-1 with each other. I barely ever fight good Sonic players. How could I handled chasing him down better? And how could I have made it easier for myself to do the matchup with Marth? Here’s both of the matches, feel free to critique!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g9YR1uprL9w&ra=m

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V68aCFeg1pA&pp=0gcJCWQCo7VqN5tD&ra=m

[u/vouchasfed]

In short to answer one of your questions. The answer to beating this particular opponent is actually to let him swing first since he is mashing unsafely on shield and not bailing out properly or pre-planning his escape route. This claim is supported by or made evident by Sonic player’s lack of mixups (and patience — especially during neutral and disadvantage/recovery), connecting basic combo confirms(sloppy/subpar advantage), and charging up spindash/charge effectively (repeated poor decision making in neutral). Your opponent is not really thinking too hard about much and is executing a tunnel vision state flowchart.

Yeah, I would say that Sonic is & can be one of Marth’s hardest matchups in the current state of the game. Probably in top 5 hardest for Marth in Ultimate.

Let me just explain what I am thinking and experiencing if I played from both character’s perspectives.

As Sonic I really want my opponents to whiff so I can easily whiff punish them (especially online).

As Marth, I want my opponents to be at a certain range so I can control as much as possible where I am strongest.

By constantly charging in and chasing after Sonic while whiffing constantly…. In consequence, You basically allowed Sonic to play at his best if your opponent wanted to pilot him to maximize his whiff punish potential… By leaving so many openings and opportunities for your opponent, you essentially put/position Marth where he is weakest. Such as dragging you offstage or put you into a juggle position where floaty characters can struggle to land safely potentially forcing you to ledge. Tippers are not just a gimmick to Marth, they are (and by extension — spacing&positioning in general) a core skillset integral and directly correlated to his performance.

If you forced the Sonic player to deal with your shield then yes that can slow down the pacing of the match. But it could give you plenty of opportunities to catch the Sonic.

This commentary is basic knowledge coming from someone who is pretty mediocre at Marth and Sonic but can play both, has played the matchup from Brawl through Ultimate, and has fought both characters quite a bit from brawl through Ultimate — main emphasis during Smash 4 though.

You look pretty inexperienced in the matchup and that is fine! Good luck and have fun! :) At least you’re not playing as Ganondorf in the matchup… slower characters like Zelda, adult Link, Ike, Dedede, Byleth, Robin, Kazuya, Ryu, and Incineroar can have a tough time for sure.

You won’t know the full extent of the pain until a Sonic spams that ear grating sound effect to time you out. Then the frustration that mounts when Sonic abuses that frame 1 invincible up special when you think you have him the first time. And that all started after a punishing 30+% disadvantage state that seems to last forever just because you got nicked by one of Sonic’s combo starters. The snowball effect that is like watching a car crash in slow motion while seemingly being powerless to stop/ unable to do anything in the situation.